New Instructor
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 129
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From: EGHF
New Instructor
So you try a new flying school and the instructor tells you to do things the "old school" would never have tolerated.
New school flys you downwind into the sun, you cant see whats about,
turn onto base at the same time reducing throttle, applying flaps in the turn.
Advice please!
New school flys you downwind into the sun, you cant see whats about,
turn onto base at the same time reducing throttle, applying flaps in the turn.
Advice please!
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 513
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From: all over the place
Two responses to the previous,
1) you need to be fluid in the manouvres, ie reduce throttle/apply flaps /all done in a turn etc. that is what good flying is all about, that is a good thing I feel. (except maybe downwind into the sun, but what can you do about that except buy good sunglasses)
2) thank you John (Farley) for your contributions. I (and I am sure everyone else is) aware of the valuable insights and the experience you have to offer us and I personally would like to thank you for taking the time to contribute.
mike Jones
1) you need to be fluid in the manouvres, ie reduce throttle/apply flaps /all done in a turn etc. that is what good flying is all about, that is a good thing I feel. (except maybe downwind into the sun, but what can you do about that except buy good sunglasses)
2) thank you John (Farley) for your contributions. I (and I am sure everyone else is) aware of the valuable insights and the experience you have to offer us and I personally would like to thank you for taking the time to contribute.
mike Jones
Safety First!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 516
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From: New Zealand
WHY?
If you wonder why you are being asked to do these things, ask the instructor. There may be a good reason for doing things this way, or it might just be they havent thought of alternatives until you asked "WHY?". So many things are done the way they are because noone thought about an alternative because 'thats the way its always been done'.
Kerms
Kerms
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 6
From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Nothing wrong with turning base, setting power & flap (selected below Vfe, of course).
D/wind into the sun: No other runway to use? Noise sensitive area for an alternative flight path? Controlled airspace? Weather avoidance?
As the above poster said: ASK!
Bear in mind there's more than one way to skin the flying cat.
D/wind into the sun: No other runway to use? Noise sensitive area for an alternative flight path? Controlled airspace? Weather avoidance?
As the above poster said: ASK!
Bear in mind there's more than one way to skin the flying cat.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,981
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
thumpango
It's a very good idea to go fly with another instructor a few times when you are a student (and beyond) because he/she might do things differently. Plenty of normal instructors out there with weird ideas. As everybody says, ask them why and decide for yourself.
Never heard of the downwind into the sun one. Are you supposed to fly a non standard pattern? There are problems with that too, especially if everybody else is flying downwind into the sun because they have never heard of that one
That pesky sun, it's amazing flight is permitted when it's shining
Didn't you have a question some time back about what airspeed to fly on short final? If so, you really are finding them!!!
Cheers
It's a very good idea to go fly with another instructor a few times when you are a student (and beyond) because he/she might do things differently. Plenty of normal instructors out there with weird ideas. As everybody says, ask them why and decide for yourself.
Never heard of the downwind into the sun one. Are you supposed to fly a non standard pattern? There are problems with that too, especially if everybody else is flying downwind into the sun because they have never heard of that one
That pesky sun, it's amazing flight is permitted when it's shining
Didn't you have a question some time back about what airspeed to fly on short final? If so, you really are finding them!!!
Cheers
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 129
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From: EGHF
Um, Ok folks, thank you for your comments. I guess I need to be more 'fluid' as Pilotbear suggests.
My experience so far has been at a large commercial airport with ATC and a long runway. I know the circuit off by heart, been round it enough times! and did my first solo there.
Thought I would try a lesson with a school using a grass strip which is a third the length I am used to, but probably is more like the fields I would be using if I ever get my PPL.
My lesson was like starting again, different approach speeds, MATZ in every direction except south, an A/G service that only acknowledged one call in three. Different procedure at end of downwind i.e reducing power, setting flaps and turning base at the same time.
But what worried me the most was flying downwind into the sun and being blinded to any traffic ahead of me or joining. The only thing I could see through the crazed windscreen of this PA28 was the vague outline of a large Cathedral Tower which is where I should turn base. (ok, you know where this is now!)
The sun is very low in the sky here at this time of year so what would you experienced pilots do when the view ahead and below is obscured?
Another experience, the field has an uphill slope on the runway in use, to hold off requires more backpressure! or am I missing something?
Slim-Slag, yes, I find them alright!
My experience so far has been at a large commercial airport with ATC and a long runway. I know the circuit off by heart, been round it enough times! and did my first solo there.
Thought I would try a lesson with a school using a grass strip which is a third the length I am used to, but probably is more like the fields I would be using if I ever get my PPL.
My lesson was like starting again, different approach speeds, MATZ in every direction except south, an A/G service that only acknowledged one call in three. Different procedure at end of downwind i.e reducing power, setting flaps and turning base at the same time.
But what worried me the most was flying downwind into the sun and being blinded to any traffic ahead of me or joining. The only thing I could see through the crazed windscreen of this PA28 was the vague outline of a large Cathedral Tower which is where I should turn base. (ok, you know where this is now!)
The sun is very low in the sky here at this time of year so what would you experienced pilots do when the view ahead and below is obscured?
Another experience, the field has an uphill slope on the runway in use, to hold off requires more backpressure! or am I missing something?
Slim-Slag, yes, I find them alright!
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
When you first learn to fly there are Rules (the capital R is intentional). You turn base here, take flaps here, this is the approach speed etc. Later you learn that these things can, and should, be varied to suit the conditions and the airfield and the runway and so on. It would be great if you learned that in the beginning, but flying's confusing enough at the start, without having to make choices too, which would represent severe overload for most students. As for downwind into the sun? Not much you can do, except get a good pair of sunglasses, and perhaps make extra radio calls to let other traffic know where you are. It's worse with a low winter sun when you're on final; the other week I turned final unable to see the runway, nearly decided to stay airborne till the sun dropped below the horizon, but more by luck than judgement I found myself on a reasonable approach and managed to land.
But you should be able to ask your instructor about all this stuff. If you can't, then IMHO you have a problem; solve it by changing instructors.
But you should be able to ask your instructor about all this stuff. If you can't, then IMHO you have a problem; solve it by changing instructors.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 129
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From: EGHF
Thank you for your posting Whirlybird.
All part of the training experience then. It was just so totally different from any of my previous flying!
Sun glasses are definitely on my christmas list now!
All part of the training experience then. It was just so totally different from any of my previous flying!
Sun glasses are definitely on my christmas list now!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 413
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From: Africa
Perhaps the downwind leg is into the sun to avoid crashing the aircraft on landing. I would think it's easier to fly straight and level 1000'AGL and make a few radio calls while being blinded by the sun than trying to judge when to flare or landing alongside the runway because you can't see what you're doing.
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 347
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From: New Zealand
Have to agree with Card and XerO, The airfield I fly out of will often operate the runway with the sun best suited for T/O and landing during early morning sunstrikes as long as the tailwind is minimal (lots of students usually).
The turn technique on bass - Thats how I was always taught, tho depending where your at in your training (ie pre-solo) you may have been taught pwr back-turn-flaps down to make things easier for you.
Definatly question your instructor if you dont agree - Remember tho that sometimes there is no right or wrong way for things and at least do it his/her way to keep him/her happy - Everyone has there pedantic little gripes.
The turn technique on bass - Thats how I was always taught, tho depending where your at in your training (ie pre-solo) you may have been taught pwr back-turn-flaps down to make things easier for you.
Definatly question your instructor if you dont agree - Remember tho that sometimes there is no right or wrong way for things and at least do it his/her way to keep him/her happy - Everyone has there pedantic little gripes.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 129
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From: EGHF
Kiwi,
thank you for your comments.
The new school and instructor were giving me exactly the right information for their circuit and airfield.
I now appreciate that different conditions require deviation from the standard procedures I have been used to so far.
I am post solo and continuing my PPL training with my original school, my experience of the grass short field has been useful. I will leave it to my original instructor to introduce me to this, he may however wonder how quickly I adapt!
Thank you all for your comments and taking the time to reply to this thread.
thank you for your comments.
The new school and instructor were giving me exactly the right information for their circuit and airfield.
I now appreciate that different conditions require deviation from the standard procedures I have been used to so far.
I am post solo and continuing my PPL training with my original school, my experience of the grass short field has been useful. I will leave it to my original instructor to introduce me to this, he may however wonder how quickly I adapt!
Thank you all for your comments and taking the time to reply to this thread.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
One thing I forgot to mention as you will no doubt find during the course of your training (noticeably if you go beyond PPL) is that Instructors often seem to change thier minds about how they do things: Whats right one week will be wrong and changed the second week, by the third week it will be a case of "whats going on? you wern't doing that 3 weeks ago, who showed you that?" 
Its all very amusing so have fun!
Its all very amusing so have fun!
