Initial training : Slip Yes ……Slip no
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 416
Likes: 36
From: Down south
To conclude;
Slip definitely yes; Stick on one side and rudder at the opposite, even to full stop in GA aircrafts, Ball at the inside of the turn or bank
Skid; Definitely no,no,NO. avoid at all costs; Stick and rudder on the same side. Ball at the outside of the bank or turn
Slip definitely yes; Stick on one side and rudder at the opposite, even to full stop in GA aircrafts, Ball at the inside of the turn or bank
Skid; Definitely no,no,NO. avoid at all costs; Stick and rudder on the same side. Ball at the outside of the bank or turn
Joined: Apr 2008
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,120
Likes: 182
From: cowtown
Fear is a great trainer .
Once someone is familiar with just how much drag you can get with full flaps it becomes fun . Turn final at circuit height use the drag to lose seven hundred feet . Power retard , full flaps and point it at the ground , you can go from being mad high to too low very quickly by using a very nose low attitude . Not as much fun as dropping an MU 2 from 10,000 feet at ten mile final . Pretty sure it could have made it from eight miles but we might have missed the first exit
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,083
Likes: 2,940
From: Ontario, Canada
Interesting reference to slips for the FRA150L. I'm leery of the legitimacy of that document, a non approved (flying club?). I can state with total confidence (I owned a 150M for 34 years, and flew it more than 3000 hours, including many many full slips with full flaps), that that prohibition is based upon historic, and not truly relevant information - not flight test evidence on the 150L. Dorsal fin length is a factor. I have experienced this pitch down in older (short dorsal fin) 172's while doing slips with full flaps. It can get your attention (like a gust of wind) but is not life threatening if you're paying attention to flying the plane. It's about like hitting the wake of a similar weight airplane ahead of you - a bump you notice, correct for, and carry on.
If this phenomenon were truly a dangerous handing issue, the plane could not have been certified:
Though this design requirement does not overtly state pitch stability, when considered in the context of:
An explanation of the factor can be found in the first column of this page from "Cessna, Wings for the World" by Thompson (a former Cessna test pilot) - Excellent book for Cessna pilots!
If this phenomenon were truly a dangerous handing issue, the plane could not have been certified:
§ 3.118 Directional and lateral stability—
.......
(3) In straight steady sideslips (unaccelerated forward slips), the aileron and rudder control movements and forces shall increase steadily, but not necessarily in constant proportion, as the angle of sideslip is increased; the rate of increase of the movements and forces shall lie between satisfactory limits up to sideslip angles considered appropriate to the operation of the type. At greater angles, up to that at which the full rudder control is employed or a rudder pedal force of 150 pounds is obtained, the rudder pedal forces shall not reverse and increased rudder deflection shall produce increased angles of sideslip. Sufficient bank shall accompany sideslipping to indicate adequately any departure from steady unyawed flight.
.......
(3) In straight steady sideslips (unaccelerated forward slips), the aileron and rudder control movements and forces shall increase steadily, but not necessarily in constant proportion, as the angle of sideslip is increased; the rate of increase of the movements and forces shall lie between satisfactory limits up to sideslip angles considered appropriate to the operation of the type. At greater angles, up to that at which the full rudder control is employed or a rudder pedal force of 150 pounds is obtained, the rudder pedal forces shall not reverse and increased rudder deflection shall produce increased angles of sideslip. Sufficient bank shall accompany sideslipping to indicate adequately any departure from steady unyawed flight.
§ 3.106 General. The airplane shall be satisfactorily controllable and maneuverable during take-off, climb, level flight, drive, and landing with or without power. It shall be possible to make a smooth transition from one flight condition to another, including turns and slips, without requiring an exceptional degree of skill, alertness, or strength on the part of the pilot, and without danger of exceeding the limit load factor under all conditions of operation probable for the type,.....
An explanation of the factor can be found in the first column of this page from "Cessna, Wings for the World" by Thompson (a former Cessna test pilot) - Excellent book for Cessna pilots!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 99
Likes: 4
From: U.K
Hi pilot DAR
That copy just came off the interweb, was looking to revise speeds etc for a flight. Not flown for a while. Was surprised when I saw that statement.
I have just checked and the document is for a VH registered aircraft.
Now I have flown and have access to the legitimate POH for actual UK registered aircraft I can confirm the same restriction is in it!
Another aircraft in the fleet, POH has a revision of that page, revision 1 August 1972 where the restriction has gone, no mention of sideslips at all.
That copy just came off the interweb, was looking to revise speeds etc for a flight. Not flown for a while. Was surprised when I saw that statement.
I have just checked and the document is for a VH registered aircraft.
Now I have flown and have access to the legitimate POH for actual UK registered aircraft I can confirm the same restriction is in it!
Another aircraft in the fleet, POH has a revision of that page, revision 1 August 1972 where the restriction has gone, no mention of sideslips at all.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,083
Likes: 2,940
From: Ontario, Canada
Yes, I am aware of inconsistencies on this theme, though I had never seen it applied to any 150 before. Perhaps an other than FAA authority influencing the content of POH's.
If the applicable POH actually says it's "prohibited", then it is in that jurisdiction. That doesn't change aerodynamics and physics in that locale, but oh well....
If the applicable POH actually says it's "prohibited", then it is in that jurisdiction. That doesn't change aerodynamics and physics in that locale, but oh well....
