CPL without Class 1 Medical
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CPL without Class 1 Medical
Hi there,
I hold a class 2 medical (Class 1 = rejected), is there any chance for me to complete a CPL?
(I dont' wish to use it for financial gain/to instruct CPL)
I want to be a PPL instructor, but getting a job without a CPL is going to be difficult)
Is there the option of gaining a CPL with some limitation written into your licence if you are in a Class 2 Category?
Thanks,
I hold a class 2 medical (Class 1 = rejected), is there any chance for me to complete a CPL?
(I dont' wish to use it for financial gain/to instruct CPL)
I want to be a PPL instructor, but getting a job without a CPL is going to be difficult)
Is there the option of gaining a CPL with some limitation written into your licence if you are in a Class 2 Category?
Thanks,
In the days when the CAA ran aircrew licensing it was possible to obtain a CPL with limitations to get around certain medical issues that prevented the issue of a Class 1 medical. This came to an end when we were subject to the les flexible EU rule book. Now that the CAA is supposedly back in charge again there should be some scope for flexibility. Perhaps you should make a case via your AME and see where you get to.
Professional Student
Hi there,
I hold a class 2 medical (Class 1 = rejected), is there any chance for me to complete a CPL?
(I dont' wish to use it for financial gain/to instruct CPL)
I want to be a PPL instructor, but getting a job without a CPL is going to be difficult)
Is there the option of gaining a CPL with some limitation written into your licence if you are in a Class 2 Category?
Thanks,
I hold a class 2 medical (Class 1 = rejected), is there any chance for me to complete a CPL?
(I dont' wish to use it for financial gain/to instruct CPL)
I want to be a PPL instructor, but getting a job without a CPL is going to be difficult)
Is there the option of gaining a CPL with some limitation written into your licence if you are in a Class 2 Category?
Thanks,
A long while ago, PPL holders who were instructors were issued with a BCPL which only required, as it was then a Class 3 medical. By definition, a CPL and an ATPL require a Class 1 medical, so I cant see how a CPL could be issued. That an instructor can be paid with a PPL is a good thing though. All the best with your quest.
Not quite correct, a PPL Instructor needed a minimum of a Class 2 medical. An applicant for a professional licence required a Class 1 but, a BCPL holder restricted to Aerial Work only needed a Class 2.
The major stumbling block with the Class 1 was colour blindness and some CPLs were issued with a Night restriction to permit flight instruction only, no night or commercial operation. There probably isn't any reason to do that now as it can be done with a PPL.
The major stumbling block with the Class 1 was colour blindness and some CPLs were issued with a Night restriction to permit flight instruction only, no night or commercial operation. There probably isn't any reason to do that now as it can be done with a PPL.
Central Flight Training website
The course consists of 30 hours of flight instruction with an approved FIC Instructor (up to 5 of these may be flown as mutual time with another Flight Instructor student), and at least 125 hours of groundschool. Upon completion of the course, an assessment of competence must be taken with an approved Flight Instructor Examiner, usually from our base airfield.
The supervisory restriction can be lifted once the instructor has completed at least 100 hours of flight instruction, and has authorised 25 student solo flights.
So no need to obtain a CPL but you do need to pass the CPL exams or higher as you choose in order to instruct for the PPL.
Flight Instructor (Restricted) Certificate
The FI(R) course requires the applicant to have either a UK-FCL CPL, or a UK-FCL PPL with more than 200 hours total time, including 150 hours in command and passes in at least the UK CPL theory examinations. In addition to this, the pilot must have at least 30 hours on the class of aircraft on which the course is to be taken, and of these, five must be within the preceding six months.The course consists of 30 hours of flight instruction with an approved FIC Instructor (up to 5 of these may be flown as mutual time with another Flight Instructor student), and at least 125 hours of groundschool. Upon completion of the course, an assessment of competence must be taken with an approved Flight Instructor Examiner, usually from our base airfield.
The supervisory restriction can be lifted once the instructor has completed at least 100 hours of flight instruction, and has authorised 25 student solo flights.
So no need to obtain a CPL but you do need to pass the CPL exams or higher as you choose in order to instruct for the PPL.
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The associated UK CAA and EASA reference for Flight Instructor certificate prerequisites is FCL.915.FI (b). UK Part-FCL regulation FCL.915.FI (b) can be found here:
https://regulatorylibrary.caa.co.uk/...requisites.htm
ifitaint...
https://regulatorylibrary.caa.co.uk/...requisites.htm
ifitaint...
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I have an FIC and CRI as a PPL, currently studying for CPL theory, no intention of getting the full CPL. All on a class two medical, you only need the theory exams to teach PPL. Without it you can teach but only LAPL AB initio, best of luck J
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I think the point has been missed here, no you do not need a CPL to instruct, but most adverts for FI's I see, require minimum CPL plus FI. PPLs not accepted, silly really as its the applicant's skills as an FI that are important not the license they have. Maybe an insurance minimum I'm not sure.
Aware
Thats what my initial answer was based upon. One can now argue that as a PPL holder can give remunerated instruction, there is no specific requirement to hold a CPL with other limitations. Equally there is no justification to not employ a PPL instructor who does not hold a CPL, it could be regarded as discrimination.
Thats what my initial answer was based upon. One can now argue that as a PPL holder can give remunerated instruction, there is no specific requirement to hold a CPL with other limitations. Equally there is no justification to not employ a PPL instructor who does not hold a CPL, it could be regarded as discrimination.
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Thank you all, very interesting answers getting a bit of a history on how its all evolved over the past few years. Im not sure its discrimination for a flight school to require it as having a CPL isnt a protected characteristic, I may approach the CAA directly and ask but as a CPL is no longer technically required, they may not understand my request, I guess it wont hurt to ask.
I would have thought any decent flying school would welcome a non CPL instructor as they would not be going off to the airlines at the drop of a hat, but instructing because they actually want to.
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Could it be that the schools requiring their instructors to hold CPLs might want them to teach at CPL level as well as PPL. I'm an instructor on a PPL but am doing my CPL as the ATO I teach at also has commercial students that I can't yet teach, till I've got my own CPL.
Worth checking the training offered by those schools to see if that's the reason, though I agree that if the school only offers PPL training then it would be overkill.
Worth checking the training offered by those schools to see if that's the reason, though I agree that if the school only offers PPL training then it would be overkill.
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As a Head of Training, wanting to employ a FI, it's easy for me to check credentials on the ratings page of a licence, i.e. holds a CPL and SEP and FI ratings, current. I'm not sure how to check a PPL with SEP and FI has current passes in CPL exams. I guess the UK CAA issues a piece of paper with the results on, maybe it's just online these days, as with the PPL exams? Does the validity of the exams expire with time, if no CPL issued?
I don't have the time or resources to research these kinds of questions. Fortunately this has never arisen for me. A vanilla PPL with SEP and FI is of no use to me, I've yet to have a student actually just go for the LAPL, generally they can all obtain a Class 2 or Class 1 medical and will do in excess of the PPL hours during training.
We do mention the availability of the LAPL and its training requirements along with its limitations and everyone so far has opted for the PPL. The younger ones after a career need the PPL anyway and the older ones will inevitably take more than 45 hours.
There was a thing from AOPA about the dangers of using a PPL only holding instructor for anything other than LAPL instructing, a minefield I'd rather not enter.
TOO
I don't have the time or resources to research these kinds of questions. Fortunately this has never arisen for me. A vanilla PPL with SEP and FI is of no use to me, I've yet to have a student actually just go for the LAPL, generally they can all obtain a Class 2 or Class 1 medical and will do in excess of the PPL hours during training.
We do mention the availability of the LAPL and its training requirements along with its limitations and everyone so far has opted for the PPL. The younger ones after a career need the PPL anyway and the older ones will inevitably take more than 45 hours.
There was a thing from AOPA about the dangers of using a PPL only holding instructor for anything other than LAPL instructing, a minefield I'd rather not enter.
TOO
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Worth persevering
As an aspiring FI with PPL only, FI/CRI and studying for CPL TX. Instructing is not an easy alternative, there are plenty of well qualified ATPL/ CPL’s out there but I believe it’s worth persevering and there is a role for PPL instructors. The exams are easily proven, the onus is on the job applicant. For a small fee the CAA will verify theoretical exam results. The exam expiry period is only in relation to pursuing a CPL or ATPL, the written can stand alone.
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I am an FI(A) with ppl and theoretical CPL; I am now retired and did my FI(A) with FCL 905 aerobatics estension 15 years ago
I was lucky enough to even remove the restriction during the Jar/EASA transition.
I have been flying for 45 years, having owned advanced aerobatic aircrafts and trained with french world class coaches at huge expense out of passion and desire to improve and learn, and boy have I been and am still studying,mostly aerodynamics and UPRT related subjects just because I love it..
Have done my FI(A) to keep busy during my retirement, teaching PPL, LAPL, UPRT even as a part time activity.
Not having a full ATPL or CPL ( My theoretical CPL expired after 3 years and at the time had no need to completethe flying part) I later realised there are no prospects for being hired, nowhere.
Experience does not seem to interest anybody.
As fly_webby states, there is definitely a role for ppl instructors, but where ? Very frustrating indeed.
I was lucky enough to even remove the restriction during the Jar/EASA transition.
I have been flying for 45 years, having owned advanced aerobatic aircrafts and trained with french world class coaches at huge expense out of passion and desire to improve and learn, and boy have I been and am still studying,mostly aerodynamics and UPRT related subjects just because I love it..
Have done my FI(A) to keep busy during my retirement, teaching PPL, LAPL, UPRT even as a part time activity.
Not having a full ATPL or CPL ( My theoretical CPL expired after 3 years and at the time had no need to completethe flying part) I later realised there are no prospects for being hired, nowhere.
Experience does not seem to interest anybody.
As fly_webby states, there is definitely a role for ppl instructors, but where ? Very frustrating indeed.
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Indeed, but perhaps they want all their instructors CPL-trained in order that they are of a specific "standard" (which I guess is within their right to do so), its just complex as an FI only requires a Class 2, therefore if one doesnt hold a class 1, no potential to 'show' what standard you are, it is what it is I guess, I'll run it by the CAA and give an update here, I'm aware of a few pilots with limitations wrtten into their ratings. Fingers crossed!