Practice PANs on 'Guard'
You may do all of that. If the 'mayday' aircraft is able to receive messages then they will, of course, hear you relaying. The ground station will be in the best position to co-ordinate actions that should follow. If the aircraft is able to divert then it will not be a mayday situation but a 'pan' which is classed as an urgency and ATC will best advise of a suitable aerodrome taking into consideration a number of factors; it would follow that you would then relay on behalf the ATC unit to the aircraft in question. Cluttering the frequency with unnecessary calls will not help, even if well meaning.
However you may have relayed the “Mayday” or “Pan” on another freq. or even on HF or via Sat Phone. The Pilot may be doing the “aviate, navigate , communicate” prioritization of his actions and not have heard you relay as he completes Emergency Checklists. If the initiating aircraft called Mayday you relay it as a Mayday. The decision to divert does does not guarantee the ability of the aircraft to reach the diversion destination so you do not reduce it to a PAN call. In Canada the ATC unit can be 100s even, in the case of Arctic Radio, 1000s of miles away and be completely unaware of the abandoned but serviceable runway 20 miles from the aircraft’s position. Many factors will affect how and why you communicate with the aircraft in distress. You may even divert to intercept him as SAR assets can be many hours away. Common sense will dictate your reactions.
Last edited by albatross; 10th Mar 2023 at 20:11.
Please forgive a stupid question:
Since radio frequencies are to be used only for Air to Ground and Ground to Air Purposes only.
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
If I am intercepted and Ace McCool in his pointy fighter is threatening to turn me into falling debris on 121.500 I can not respond to his calls? Is he not in violation of the same regulations? I assume as he is military he is not limited to solely A>G and G>A comms otherwise he could not berate his long-suffering
Since radio frequencies are to be used only for Air to Ground and Ground to Air Purposes only.
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
If I am intercepted and Ace McCool in his pointy fighter is threatening to turn me into falling debris on 121.500 I can not respond to his calls? Is he not in violation of the same regulations? I assume as he is military he is not limited to solely A>G and G>A comms otherwise he could not berate his long-suffering
Listed in order if silliness...
1)You kow full well that military are not subject to the came rules that civvies are.
2)You also know full well that 'nothing in the regulations should prevent whatever action deemed necessary being taken in the event of an emergency' or words to that effect.
3) The fact remains that ALL aviation frequencies including 123.45 are for stated purposes. While some are for glider comms or dedicated to fire and rescue services or company comms (also not supposed to be used for air to air...) all Air Traffic frequencies are designated air to ground and vv. Thus it is abundantly clear to all but the most obtuse that they are NOT for air to air or ground to ground use and may not be used as such.
Just in passing, like many UK instructors I regularly have my students carry out practice PAN calls, for all the usual good reasons.
However, "Training fix"?, honestly I think that the last time I heard that phrase was around 32 years ago when I was a UAS Cadet Pilot. Is that actually still in use by anybody anywhere?
G
However, "Training fix"?, honestly I think that the last time I heard that phrase was around 32 years ago when I was a UAS Cadet Pilot. Is that actually still in use by anybody anywhere?
G
Those are indeed extraordinary questions, or they would be if I didn't think you were being a wind-up.
Listed in order if silliness...
1)You kow full well that military are not subject to the came rules that civvies are.
2)You also know full well that 'nothing in the regulations should prevent whatever action deemed necessary being taken in the event of an emergency' or words to that effect.
3) The fact remains that ALL aviation frequencies including 123.45 are for stated purposes. While some are for glider comms or dedicated to fire and rescue services or company comms (also not supposed to be used for air to air...) all Air Traffic frequencies are designated air to ground and vv. Thus it is abundantly clear to all but the most obtuse that they are NOT for air to air or ground to ground use and may not be used as such.
Listed in order if silliness...
1)You kow full well that military are not subject to the came rules that civvies are.
2)You also know full well that 'nothing in the regulations should prevent whatever action deemed necessary being taken in the event of an emergency' or words to that effect.
3) The fact remains that ALL aviation frequencies including 123.45 are for stated purposes. While some are for glider comms or dedicated to fire and rescue services or company comms (also not supposed to be used for air to air...) all Air Traffic frequencies are designated air to ground and vv. Thus it is abundantly clear to all but the most obtuse that they are NOT for air to air or ground to ground use and may not be used as such.
“btw, the reason we have no air-to-air freq in UK is because aircraft radio installations are subject to strictly controlled use by the licencing regulations which state categorically that they are authorised for air to ground and ground to air comms only. As every UK pilot with a RT licence ought to know from basic air-law and radio training...(probably a carry-over from early Post Office regulations on radio transmissions which were exceedingly restrictive),”[END QUOTE]
Sorry if my silliness offended you.
On our way home from a lunchtime bacon butty and cup of tea on a lovely afternoon last summer we were asked by the FISO at the aerodrome we had visited "D&D have requested that you make a training fix on 121.5 if you have time on your way home as they are working on the triangulation system"
So we did! Probably about 35+ years since the last one!
So we did! Probably about 35+ years since the last one!
Not disputing it's still in the manuals, just whether anybody, anywhere, is actually doing them.
A Practice Pan, yes, absolutely. A separate Training Fix doesn't seem to have been called for from that wording does it? This seems to imply one or the other, but in reality I'm assuming everybody does the latter.
G
Being picky, it says "Training Fix | Practice Urgency"
A Practice Pan, yes, absolutely. A separate Training Fix doesn't seem to have been called for from that wording does it? This seems to imply one or the other, but in reality I'm assuming everybody does the latter.
G
A Practice Pan, yes, absolutely. A separate Training Fix doesn't seem to have been called for from that wording does it? This seems to imply one or the other, but in reality I'm assuming everybody does the latter.
G
This seems to imply one or the other, but in reality I'm assuming everybody does the latter.
A Practice Pan, yes, absolutely. A separate Training Fix doesn't seem to have been called for from that wording does it? This seems to imply one or the other, but in reality I'm assuming everybody does the latter.
Last summer an aircraft was below cloud in the Massif Central, he could not climb out of the valley and was not visible on radar however Limoges ATC saw his VDF response and were able to assist him to get out of the area of high ground using VDF alone. Whilst this may seem to some like a hangover from the past, it proved to be a very useful aid. Any method of finding out where you are when you are uncertain is worth using and should be taught.
When Inverness gained Radar they also continued to retain the VDF facility. Owing to high ground the Radar was limited at the lower levels. they would regularly home light aircraft who didn't know they were off track (lost). They still have the use of VDF, I note, even with the GPS carried by most aircraft.
