Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Flying Instructors & Examiners
Reload this Page >

Issue of UK CPL based on EASA CPL

Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

Issue of UK CPL based on EASA CPL

Old 18th Aug 2021, 11:42
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Issue of UK CPL based on EASA CPL

Dear all,

I am planning to train as a flight instructor with a British ATO. I am currently a holder of EASA CPL with ME/IR. Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that to fly a G-registered aircraft as a FI I (will) need a British licence. So, what is the process to get a licence based on current EASA CPL (issued in 2013)? Have you recently gone through this (or vice versa) process?
  1. Do I need a British MED Class I certificate or could EASA MED Class I certificate work for just now?
  2. When applying for a British licence, do I need to pass any exams or proficiency checks?
  3. Do both ME/IR transfer into a new British licence?
I went through the regulations previously, but still have the above questions. Thank you for your answers and clarifications.
vp89 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2021, 13:19
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You can use an EASA licence to fly a G-reg aircraft until 31st December 2022, after that you will need a UK issued licence.

The process involves converting your medical as detailed here, then converting your licence as detailed here.

1. You can use your EASA Class 1 medical until 31st December 2022
2. No, just pay money
3. Any valid rating/certificate endorsed on your EASA licence will be endorsed on your UK licence. (More details via the "licence" link given above).

You can get access to your medical records by sending a Subject Access Request to the national authority that issued your EASA licence.
Arrow Flyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 07:25
  #3 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arrowflyer, important to note the advice you give only applies to EASA licenses issued before the 31/21/2020, which is stated clearly in the link and in this case does apply to the poster.
But there will be alot of UK nationals who gained EASA licenses after 01/01/21 who were misdavised by their ATOs who will read this and think the above is applicable.

Another thing to consider is if the poster wants the FI rating on just the UK license or on both EASA and UK licenses.
While the two year validation allows you to fly G reg on an EASA license you can't add a UK Part FCL FI rating to an EASA license, so the UK Part FCL does need to be obtained before the FI course. But a UK Part FCL FI course cannot be used to add a FI rating to an EASA license.

As I understand only ratings that were valid on the EASA license on the 31/12/20 can be transferred to the UK license. So correct me if I am wrong if the FI rating were added to the EASA licesne now it couldn't be transfered to the UK license. However EASA ATO training can/may be recognised for UK PArt FCL ratings until the end of 2022. So if I am not mistaken an EASA FI course and then a test with a dual rated EASA/UK FIE would allow both the FI rating to be added to both the EASA and UK Part FCL licenses. My interpretation of the rules so open to be corrected.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 07:39
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does the post not say his EASA licence was issued in 2013? My interpretation, he can use this EASA licence until 31/12/2022.

Based on that, the poster has the option of doing an FI course with an EASA ATO in the UK or outside, getting his licence endorsed, then moving across to a UK licence at some point in the future. All valid ratings/certificates move across.
- or -
Get the UK licence now, use a UK ATO for the FI course, and end up with the FI on the UK licence only.

Regarding what is endorsed, I've based my post on what the CAA website linked above says:

What will be issued on the UK Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL Licence
All privileges endorsed on your licence at the time of transfer from the UK will be endorsed onto the UK Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL licence. Any additional privileges from the EU Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL will also be endorsed onto the UK Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL, excluding any National or Restricted Ratings. Any valid ratings will be annotated on the certificate of revalidation, with any expired ratings being removed to the back of the licence.
I always try to back up what I say with the source hence the CAA website links, do you have a difference source that contradicts mine? I'd like to be accurate in the advice I give...
Arrow Flyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 10:35
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The CAA reference that you quote says:
Information for previous UK licence holders and holders of EASA licences issued before 31 December 2020
However when you read the page there is no mention of any process for a non UK EASA licence holder to convert.
The conversion process is however contained in Regulation 2020/723 Careful reading of this document reveals only details of a Validation for one year or Conversion of any licence to a PPL; the transition to a Commercial licence is unclear and conversion details in CAP804 Section II Part P seem outdated.

Only last week the CAA notified an ATO that the conversion process was now purely administrative to convert an existing 3rd Country ICAO licence to a UK PART-FCL Licence. The person on the phone failed to give his name or provide any reference to this so should be treated with a deree of caution atributed to all hearsay.

With regard to the ability to use an EASA licence with a certificate of validation downloadable from the CAA website for the next 2 years is subjuct to the additional proviso that the 2 year validity is only applicable up to the next revalidation of any rating in the licence and possibly the medical certificate.
Whopity is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 11:04
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It would be useful to know if the OP had a UK issued licence in the past. There must be some procedure in place, if you open SRG2158 the form can be used where:

The applicant has not previously held a UK issued Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL Licence and/or examiner/instructor licensing certificate which was transferred to another EASA member state prior to the end of the EU-UK transition period on 31 December 2020, but they do hold a Part-FCL/BFCL/SFCL licence and/or examiner/instructor licensing certificate whose date of initial issue by an EU state is prior to 1st January 2021.
This would seem appropriate to the OP whose EASA licence was issued in 2013. The e-Licensing dropdown section says it is specifically not available to those who have never held an UK licence (which makes sense as it requires access to the CAA portal). If you follow the link for "Instructor/Examiner privilege conversion" you get to this page. It states:

This is applicable for both ex-UK CAA pilotís that have transferred out and EU pilots obtaining their first UK licence.
I agree, quite what that process is isn't clear, but assuming the applicant has instructor privileges on their EASA licence, the flow charts allows for transfer of those privileges to the UK FCL licence (subject to varying conditions).

I'd be equally cautious of any ICAO conversion being entirely administrative.

I've sent you a PM regarding the last point as I don't want to hijack this topic..
Arrow Flyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 12:21
  #7 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arrowflyer,
Most of what you say is correct.
The key thing is the original poster does not currently hold an FI rating, they did not have a FI rating on the EASA license as of the 31/12/20, therefore as I understand new ratings added to an EASA license after transition would not be automatically transferred to the UK Part FCL license. The UK only recognises what is on the EASA license on and before the 31/12/2020.

They would need to check with the UK CAA first if the EASA FI course and EASA FI test will be accepted by the UK CAA for issuing a UK Part FCL FI. My understanding is the CAA may accept the training and test but it is not guarenteed.

Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 19th Aug 2021 at 17:33.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 14:07
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by portsharbourflyer View Post
They would need to check with the UK CAA first if the EASA FI course and EASA FI test will be accepted by the UK CAA for issuing a UK Part FCL FI. My understanding is the CAA may accept the training and test but it is not guarenteed.
I'd genuinely like to know the answer to that question. I think the wording is slightly ambiguous as "initial issue" usually refers to the licence issue date in Section II.

A good discussion topic either way!
Arrow Flyer is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 14:41
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: N/A
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wow... Thank you very much for the answers and the discussion! Just to clarify my situation:
1. EASA CPL with ME/IR, issued in 2013.
2. No FI rating yet.
3. Never held UK licence before.
4. The employer is sponsoring FI training in Britain. Up to my knowledge, the ATO that I am going to do the training at has only UK CAA approval to provide training. I assume that it should be FI rating into a British licence. Hence, the reason of getting a British licence for myself. I will investigate their approvals (is there some database to check what kind of certificates ATO has?), as many useful comments have been made in this discussion. If it is possible to fill in two sets of papers (one for EASA and one for UK CAA) in the same exam, why not.
vp89 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2021, 16:06
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the clarification. There isn't a database per se, however you can check the EASA Early Applications list here and see if your ATO appears on that list. If it does, chances are you can do one course and one AOC with a dual qualified FIE as suggested by portsharbourflyer - on reflection probably the easiest option unless you ask the CAA for clarification regarding licence issue dates and recognition of EASA training (which I still think is a little ambiguous!).

If you've never held a UK licence/medical the option to convert your medical isn't available, you'll need to undertake an initial Class 1 at a UK AeMC/Class 2 with a UK AME.
Arrow Flyer is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.