Licensing query

[AirUK]

Good afternoon,

I have a few questions regarding UK CAA licensing - if anyone is able to help me, I'd be very grateful.

1. I had a UK CAA JAR-FCL ATPL which I SOLI'd over to the IAA in 2013 and I received an IAA EASA ATPL. I believe that when exchanging a UK JAR ATPL for a UK EASA ATPL there was a tick-box option to also receive a separate standalone national licence at the same time - I SOLI'd back and now hold a UK Part-FCL ATPL (issued as an EASA ATPL in 2018) - am I able to retrospectively apply for one of these standalone national CAA licences that I appear to have missed out on?

2. I previously instructed over 10 years ago and I am currently in the process of renewing my FI rating. I thought I had gained enough experience (100+ hrs instructing and 25 supervised solo sign offs) to un-restrict the rating but I can't be 100% sure and want to be able to confirm this - I have a scan of my old JAR ATPL (on which the rating was issued) - is there an obvious way to tell whether or not I became unrestricted from this alone? (I can't remember if you had to apply for an un-restriction or not?) Or is it an automatic un-restriction based upon experience for which I could only prove by solo sign off remarks written against my logbook entries? (I didn't make very detailed remarks entries back then - I wish I had...) I.e. would a record of an un-restriction would have been made anywhere else? If not, then I guess I will I have to start again from scratch (it's been a few years so probably wise anyway)?

3. I understand that via cross-creditation it may be possible to have a SPA SE IR issued based upon my current MPA ME IR - is this correct? I hold a valid type rating on an airliner and an SEP rating. If not, is there an easy way of obtaining an SPA SE IR or IR(R) for use on SEP aircraft with my experience?

Sorry for all the questions, I have also tried emailing the CAA, but I'm told it'll likely be a long wait before I hear back from them at the moment. Is anyone in the know able to offer any assistance/advice for a quicker answer?

Thank you in advance,

UK.

[Whopity]

Q1. Yes according to Art 152. The charge for the UK Licence on transfer was £40. The CAA are known to be reluctant to issue them independently.
Q2. You need to look at the rating on your licence, is it Restricted or not. The process of removing the restriction required the submission of a form signed by the supervising instructor. Unless you applied to have the restriction removed nothing would have happened and you would be the only person with the record.
Q3 all you need to do is a IR Prof Check on a SEP, once its valid there is a process to cross credit from your MPIR. Do the IR and get the IR(R) signed off at the same time.

[Stan Evil]

Regarding Q3. Whopity doesn't have it quite right (very rare I know).
If you originally held a UK single-pilot IR (ME or SE), even if it was years ago, you can renew it via cross-crediting (the rules changed in 2019 to allow renewal as well as revalidation). You need to fly 3 instrument approaches in an SE aeroplane, including one RNP approach; as you don't currently have a SP IR, these should be flown with a suitably qualified FI or IRI. You can then get a CRE/IRR or IRE to sign you off.
If you never held a UK single-pilot IR (if you were ex-military or converted from an FAA ATPL etc) then you will have to do training as required and then an initial IR skill test with an IRE.

[AirUK]

Thank you very much for your response, Whopity.

Q1. Although reluctant, I guess they still have a duty to honour article 153?

Q2. The FI rating is currently on the back of my Part-FCL licence, it just says “FI”. On the scan of my old JAR licence, it says “FI(A)” and “SP SE (A) Only in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.330/No Aerobatics/No Applied Instrument/No Night”. Does that mean it was un-restricted?

Q3. This is good to hear, thank you for the info.

UK.

[Whopity]

It certainly looks like the FI restriction had gone. Interesting the other items, No applied Instrument, No night; a hangover from the old National rating days. I obviously missed the cross crediting change in 2019, there were so many changes that year. Might be worth claiming you requested the National licence but never received it, that happened toa few people. I received mine, best £40 worth ever.

[AirUK]

Originally Posted by Stan Evil

Regarding Q3. Whopity doesn't have it quite right (very rare I know).
If you originally held a UK single-pilot IR (ME or SE), even if it was years ago, you can renew it via cross-crediting (the rules changed in 2019 to allow renewal as well as revalidation). You need to fly 3 instrument approaches in an SE aeroplane, including one RNP approach; as you don't currently have a SP IR, these should be flown with a suitably qualified FI or IRI. You can then get a CRE/IRR or IRE to sign you off.
If you never held a UK single-pilot IR (if you were ex-military or converted from an FAA ATPL etc) then you will have to do training as required and then an initial IR skill test with an IRE.

Stan Evil,

Thank you very much for your response - looks like we both posted at exactly the same time! Thanks for clearing up the IR situation. I did hold a SP ME IR originally, so it’s good to hear I’m able to renew that pretty easily on an SEP as well, following the approaches you mentioned.

[AirUK]

Originally Posted by Whopity

It certainly looks like the FI restriction had gone. Interesting the other items, No applied Instrument, No night; a hangover from the old National rating days. I obviously missed the cross crediting change in 2019, there were so many changes that year. Might be worth claiming you requested the National licence but never received it, that happened toa few people. I received mine, best £40 worth ever.

Whopity,

Thank you for your further response also. It seems I wasn’t imagining it then! It doesn’t help when you let ratings lapse and the whole licence format changes in the mean time, but I also had myself to blame with the lack of detail in my log book back then. Re the old ‘national’ restrictions you mentioned, I have nothing else to compare it to, but my rating was issued in 2007 so perhaps what they still did back then?

I’ll see what the CAA say when they get back to me - I certainly think it would be handy to have the national licence as well.

Thanks again, I’m very grateful for the help.

UK.

[Whopity]

I’ll see what the CAA say when they get back to me

The other thing that has changed is that the CAA don't provide this sort of information any more; it is now the responsibility of a Training Organisation to advise candidates what to do to revalidate and renew licences. Don't hold your breath.

[excrab]

Originally Posted by Stan Evil

Regarding Q3. Whopity doesn't have it quite right (very rare I know).
If you originally held a UK single-pilot IR (ME or SE), even if it was years ago, you can renew it via cross-crediting (the rules changed in 2019 to allow renewal as well as revalidation). You need to fly 3 instrument approaches in an SE aeroplane, including one RNP approach; as you don't currently have a SP IR, these should be flown with a suitably qualified FI or IRI. You can then get a CRE/IRR or IRE to sign you off.
If you never held a UK single-pilot IR (if you were ex-military or converted from an FAA ATPL etc) then you will have to do training as required and then an initial IR skill test with an IRE.

This is good news for many, but here is a question to any IREs who may be here. The cross crediting rules in the EASA part FCL easy access document are quite clear that cross crediting does apply to renewal of a single pilot IR, but at the same time the 2020 edition of the CAA examiners handbook is still quite clear that it doesn’t. Has anyone actually signed a U.K. license or had a U.K. license signed to renew SPA IR privileges on the basis of cross crediting ?

[Stan Evil]

Part FCL Appendix 8 to Part-FCL is the law. The Flight Examiners' Handbook is not - it, sadly, contains a number of errors. Despite what you may read elsewhere, you have a legal right to renew an expired IR using cross-crediting.

[excrab]

Originally Posted by Stan Evil

Part FCL Appendix 8 to Part-FCL is the law. The Flight Examiners' Handbook is not - it, sadly, contains a number of errors. Despite what you may read elsewhere, you have a legal right to renew an expired IR using cross-crediting.

Thanks, Stan. In that case, once I’ve done the three PBN arrivals and departures can you sign my licence? An IRE I just asked says cross crediting can’t be used for renewal and I’ll have to do a flight test with him.

[LastStandards]

Originally Posted by excrab

Thanks, Stan. In that case, once I’ve done the three PBN arrivals and departures can you sign my licence? An IRE I just asked says cross crediting can’t be used for renewal and I’ll have to do a flight test with him.

It's a shame that not all Examiners are up to date - we do our best with Seminars etc, but sometimes the pace of regulatory change does catch individuals out. The 2019 change to FCL (EU and thus UK for the time being) is pleasantly clear that cross crediting applies to renewal or revalidation. I've done quite a few on that basis since it changed without any NAA issues.

[POOR FO]

Has anyone who has renewed an SP SE IR using cross credit from their multi pilot IR proficiency check been able to update the CAA portal? My SEP rating does not show validity for the IR on the portal (whereas it does for the type I work on) and I can’t see an obvious way of changing it, using cross credit. I have emailed the CAA with the SRG 1157. Did my original MEP SP IR about 20 years ago.

[36050100]

Originally Posted by POOR FO

Has anyone who has renewed an SP SE IR using cross credit from their multi pilot IR proficiency check been able to update the CAA portal? My SEP rating does not show validity for the IR on the portal (whereas it does for the type I work on) and I can’t see an obvious way of changing it, using cross credit. I have emailed the CAA with the SRG 1157. Did my original MEP SP IR about 20 years ago.

I renewed an IR-SP-SE in November last year after my multi pilot IR had lapsed in 2018. Once the new licence was issued with the renewed rating on it, I looked at my account on the portal to check it was there as well. It wasn't, and like you, I couldn't see how to amend it. I intended to email the CAA, but forgot! Your post has reminded me to check. It does now appear in the format below:




I'm not sure when it was updated. Hope that helps.

[POOR FO]

Thanks for the reply and info. Did you renew the IR SP SE using cross credit appendix 8 (3 IFR departures and arrivals)? Which forms did you fill out to get it on your licence, if you did? I’ve got the 1157 signed.

[36050100]

My multi pilot IR had lapsed so had to do the renewal flight test (departure, airway, 2 x approaches, GA). Only thing cross credited I guess was that there was no minimum training required before being allowed to do the test. I did do some training so forms were a Course Completion Certificate, and Examiners Report (I can't remember the numbers...).

As I mentioned, once the Licence was reissued with the renewed rating on it, the portal didn't show it straight away. I guess the law requires it that way; the definitive document being the paper licence rather than their database. I guess It would be too simple if one could be informed by email that the rating had been issued and the database updated, then one could then check the database and print a copy of the licence.

Has your licence been reissued with the IR-SP-SE on it?

[POOR FO]

Managed to chat with CAA and they said portal not set up for cross credit, so all sorted. Thank you so much for taking time to reply. Happy flying.

[36050100]

You're welcome.

[David_Houston]

Originally Posted by POOR FO

Managed to chat with CAA and they said portal not set up for cross credit, so all sorted. Thank you so much for taking time to reply. Happy flying.

I am just about to do the same as you, what did you have to do for the CAA to get the rating to appear in eLicensing? Many thanks!

[POOR FO]

Basically said that you cant do it unless you apply for a new licence and then it will update. As long as licence is signed and you upload the 1157 in the “my documents” section. Are you renewing or reval through cross-credit? Out of interest what did your training school tell you that you needed to do?