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Can PPL, CPL and IR instructing recommence ?

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Can PPL, CPL and IR instructing recommence ?

Old 24th May 2020, 16:20
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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SWBKCB - Take a look at FLY3R Forums "How do we get training going again" on the GA page; post #1771546
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Old 24th May 2020, 21:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
DfT HW. They have made a distinction between recreational General Aviation (as described in your link) and commercial training. How an ATO mitigates risk associated with the current social distancing guidelines is entirely their responsibility however and of course, the individuals involved.
I don't see anything in that link that differentiates between GA and commercial training. Social distancing applies in both contexts. The link states this:

'TheGA team in the Department for Transport is well aware of the structural threat this period poses to recreational GA, including with regards to flight training (given that training flights are not currently possible due to directions on social distancing)'

HW
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:57
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
SWBKCB - Take a look at FLY3R Forums "How do we get training going again" on the GA page; post #1771546
Hmmm - and what is that quote from IAOPA based on? Doesn'r trump the DfT guidance
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Old 25th May 2020, 12:27
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.*****************/2020/0...mes-in-the-uk/
https://bbga.aero/london-oxford-airp...edge-aviation/

And an extract from the DfT from the frontline article...The DfT have now told us: “Organisations are allowed to conduct training in this sector because commercial pilots/crews are viewed as ‘critical workers’ and are needed to maintain cargo and repatriation flights, and other essential aviation transport services. We have adopted a similar approach to the operation of driving schools where lessons and tests continue to be allowed for critical workers, but are suspended for all other candidates.”
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 11:38
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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DfT's announcement concerning training resumption for commercial pilot cadets is a fudge. When DfT issued their last piece of guidance stating that training couldn't resume, they hadn't realised that the CAA had just provided Leading Edge Aviation at Oxford with a letter of no objection, when LEA wrote to them stating that they intended to resume training, and provided the Authority with details as to how they would manage it in a responsible manner.

Note, this was not an approval from the CAA for LEA to resume training, as they don't have the authority to approve resumption of training (that power lies with central government), and can only issue guidance, which is why I think their guidance for maintenance check flights was an omnishambles, given that the terminology was definitive rather than advisory - 'you must, you must not, you are only permitted, etc'.

When it was brought to the DfT's attention that commercial flight training was resuming due to the CAA endorsing LEA's impressive return-to-work plan, DfT came up with the critical worker definition for commercial pilot cadets.

The reason I says it's a fudge is because a) defining a cadet pilot as a critical worker is stretching the definition of critical worker to the outskirts of Barnard Castle, and b) this 'approval' ignores the modular training route, which requires the resumption of grass-roots PPL training for those commercial pilot cadets not rich enough to pay to go down the integrated training route to reach their 'critical worker' status.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 11:27
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Level 3

Level 3
Today the Government reduced the Coronavirus
Alert Level to 3
When does Instructing recommence?
Is that Level 2 or 1 ?????
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:09
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever Level 3 means, the definition will be in very poor English...............
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 19:34
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve seen a mask on several SM posts. It’s being marketed as a possible solution to allow safe flight training. To be honest I don’t want to have to wear a darth Vader mask whilst learning to fly.

Anybody in the know?
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 07:25
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Lack of information

No one knows when, how, where, who or what will be allowed as yet.

Its a complete mystery
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 10:11
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I think that there was nothing explicitly preventing flying schools operating in the legislation. The issue was always the restriction of movement element within the law. Being outside the home to attend a flying lesson possibly could not be defined as a reasonable excuse. This section has now has been altered substantially, and the English law seems now only to restrict being away from home overnight (section 6).

Everyone seems to be waiting for guidance that is never forthcoming, as those who issue the guidance never want to commit and, I also believe, don't understand the law. That is why we see guidance saying that things are now permitted when under the law they had never been banned in the first place.

The only solution is to return to looking hard at the law.

Section 7 states that a reasonable excuse (for gathering) is if it,

"takes place at an educational facility and is reasonably necessary for the purposes of education."

It does not appear to define what an educational facility is, or what is reasonably necessary for the purpose of education. Note it says reasonably necessary for the purpose of education, not that that education must be reasonably necessary. This is a very important differentiation.

It is easy to see why CPL schools, are comfortable to restart, but by the same token there is nothing explicit saying that an organisation that is advertising itself as a flying school cannot educate (train) PPL students. Remember the law is written to prevent things as opposed to approve things; however it appears to be constructed here in a way that not only doesn't prevent flight training but approves of educational gatherings which flight training is not excluded from.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 16:59
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Quote from Gov.uk stating training flights are forbidden

Return to business as usual

The general aviation sector is an important contributor to skills, jobs and growth. This government is committed to helping this important STEM sector back on its feet after restrictions are lifted.

The GA team in the Department for Transport is well aware of the structural threat this period poses to recreational GA, including with regards to flight training (given that training flights are not currently possible due to directions on social distancing). We are therefore working closely with the sector to mitigate any long term negative consequences. Similarly, we are taking steps to ensure that when it is safe to do so, we will continue to fully support the GA sector.


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Old 20th Jun 2020, 17:30
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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It’s social distancing that’s the problem. Even if One Metre is agreed it’s not enough for GA.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 18:18
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVR800 View Post
due to directions on social distancing
Returning to the law, can you show me where physical distancing is mandated?

Understandably there is confusion between the law and guidance. You MUST follow the law, you may follow guidance.

If the individual does not feel comfortable taking lessons, in the present climate, that is absolutely fair enough. However that choice should be left for the individual who should be empowered with the facts.

Interestingly the 2 meter physical distancing theory comes from research carried out in the 1930s.

A pragmatic approach would be one that follows the precautions that were applied during the last pandemic which had broadly similar infection fatality figures in the UK, which occurred in 1999-2000. If you remember the measures applied then, you will know what I mean.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 19:19
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Driving Instructors

Some Driving Schools are hoping to be allowed to restart 06/07/20 - they can only train key workers at the moment. They share the same social distancing constraints.

Regarding the law it’s guidance - not the law. Nevertheless it is being complied with due to people wanting to follow Public Health Guidance and get rid of this dreadful virus. It’s highly infectious and having had it I know. If I had carried on Instructing I probably would have infected many people - some vulnerable.
We are in a much better position now as a country. We need to be ultra cautious nevertheless

Last edited by RVR800; 20th Jun 2020 at 20:07.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 21:58
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Like influenza, SARS CoV, MERS CoV, the fact is SARS CoV2 will always be with us.

Sensible, pragmatic, workable and voluntary precautions should be taken by those most at risk. If you don't feel comfortable continuing you should not.

However the public health response now is having, and will continue to have, massive detrimental impacts to wider public health, the economy, our children's education and society.

The situation for the country is not improving, the problems have only just begun.

​​​​​​It is a shame that the public has never been as biddable to public health advice concerning the nations (by far) more prevalent killer, heart disease.
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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 15:31
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Clarity

Still no clarity on Flight Instruction ( hair cuts are allowed now though )
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 07:27
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Resumption of PPL instructing

I think RV800 is right when the green light is given to driving instructors and examiners then we will also be ok to resume,
basically following similar guidelines.
This whole situation is difficult to resolve for so many different reasons, nothing will be right for everyone.
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 07:53
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVR800 View Post
Still no clarity on Flight Instruction ( hair cuts are allowed now though )
I wonder if i can continue teaching if my student is a barber?
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 07:55
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I had a student who was trying to learn holding patterns, with timing , etc.
He shook his head and said i can't get my head around that, i'm only a hairdresser!
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 08:22
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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If you have tandem cockpits and put the Barber in the back you can kill two birds with one stone.
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