Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

ppl instructing

Reply

Old 11th May 2018, 15:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 44
Posts: 118
ppl instructing

Sorry if this has been done before but I know the rules have changed recently.
I have an EASA PPL;
Class 2 medical ( class 1 not an option as failed in 2006 due to field of vision defect)
15 years flying with about 450 hours in singles and twins

What I want to do is become an abo intro instructor and get paid for doing it .

Questions

Can I get paid for it .?
Will I need a CPL.?
Are the jobs limited because I don't have a class 1?
Were can I do this course .

Thanks in advance
HW285.
hollywood285 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2018, 16:40
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 13,363
Originally Posted by hollywood285 View Post
Sorry if this has been done before but I know the rules have changed recently.
I have an EASA PPL;
Class 2 medical ( class 1 not an option as failed in 2006 due to field of vision defect)
15 years flying with about 450 hours in singles and twins

What I want to do is become an abo intro instructor and get paid for doing it .

Questions

Can I get paid for it .?
Yes

Will I need a CPL.?
Get CPL theory, without it you'll be quite limited. You don't need the CPL itself.

Are the jobs limited because I don't have a class 1?
In ab initio instruction, I doubt anybody will notice.

Were can I do this course .
Whole bunch of schools around the UK and overseas. Try On-Track at Wellesbourne, Aeros wherever they are at the moment, Booker, Tayside as four to start your search that all have good reputations. Just use a search engine, look at school websites, they'll say if they offer the course, and most show pricing.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2018, 18:40
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 69
Posts: 1,331
I think the problem isn't the FI course, it's finding somewhere to do just the CPL theory. When I did mine, back in the 1980s, I did 'distance learning' or correspondence course, as we used to call it, with PPSC at Bournemouth. I've heard recently that most places only do the full ATPL. This would be an excellent place for someone to refute this with an example.
I needed a Class 1 when I started instructing back in 2007 but the rules thankfully relaxed just as I got to 65 and was faced with ££££ of cost for a stress ECG, now happily on a Class 2, no problem with getting paid (not much, mind you!)

TOO
TheOddOne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2018, 21:22
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 44
Posts: 118
Thanks for the replies , CATS do a CPL theory course, as you say most only do full ATPL which there is no point in me doing because I can't get a class 1 medical , thanks for the advice on FI , it's ok googling this but it's word of mouth at who's the best .
hollywood285 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2018, 06:58
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 496
Where in the UK are you hollywood285 ?
MrAverage is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2018, 11:24
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: uk
Age: 44
Posts: 118
Originally Posted by MrAverage View Post
Where in the UK are you hollywood285 ?
Just outside Lincoln
hollywood285 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2018, 15:32
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Temporarily Unsure!
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by hollywood285 View Post
Thanks for the replies , CATS do a CPL theory course, as you say most only do full ATPL which there is no point in me doing because I can't get a class 1 medical , thanks for the advice on FI , it's ok googling this but it's word of mouth at who's the best .
There might be a point doing the full ATPL as itís not that much more work and gives you the theory for an IR if you want to do that. It would give you another string to your instructing bow.
rarelyathome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2018, 16:29
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 865
... Plus there's a lot more training support for ATPLs, so ironically they're probably easier!
rudestuff is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2018, 20:42
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 27
There is the option of not doing the CPL theory at all, just do the FI Course, and still be able to teach ab-initio but to LAPL only. Just another option.
Kemble Pitts is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2018, 00:47
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Temporarily Unsure!
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Kemble Pitts View Post
There is the option of not doing the CPL theory at all, just do the FI Course, and still be able to teach ab-initio but to LAPL only. Just another option.
As per GtEís post. Up to LAPL would be quite limiting IMHO
rarelyathome is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2018, 09:26
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Bristol
Posts: 114
Hollywood, based on your location, it might be worth utting a few feelers out at Gamston Airfiled, there used to be a guy there that did FIC training as well as flying a King Air, perhaps someone can remind me of his name I did part of my FIC course with him elsewhere, quite a sound instructor, he might be able to help adivise you on CPL exams, the other person is Chris Caine, who you may be able to contact through Halfpenny Green, he may be doing FIc course part time, last time I heard, he was also a standards man at the CAA, again quite a sound bloke.

To add, the FIC instructor at Gamston name was from memory (I think), Phil Turner.

Last edited by anchorhold; 13th May 2018 at 09:42.
anchorhold is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2018, 12:57
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,124
An FI without a CPL is like chocolate teapot. There is no market fro initial LAPL training for a start. Differences training wont put food on the table. Doing the CPL theory will only extend you to be able to teach the full PPL but no other career path which will get old pretty quickly.
bose-x is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 19:01
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FL100
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by bose-x View Post
An FI without a CPL is like chocolate teapot. There is no market fro initial LAPL training for a start. Differences training wont put food on the table. Doing the CPL theory will only extend you to be able to teach the full PPL but no other career path which will get old pretty quickly.
I teach LAPL, Night Ratings, IR(R), IR and MEP and hold a couple of examiner certificates and do very nicely thank you very much without CPL TK
AllanA is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 19:33
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 47
Posts: 725
And your not on your own. I know two people who work full time as flying instructors one of which also has examiner privileges. They also do a fair bit of microlight instruction to.

Neither have CPL TK.
Mickey Kaye is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 20:11
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FL100
Posts: 22
Yes, there are quite a few when you look around. Instead of spending 800 hrs studying CPL TK most of which I felt would not be as relevant, I spent the 800 hrs flying VFR and IFR in singles and twins UK and Europe to build up real practical experience to teach people to fly in the GA environment. Diffírent folks, diffírent strokes.
AllanA is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 20:45
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,124
A niche minority whatever way you look at it. As a very large flying school running over 200 students a year I can count the number of LAPL students on Homer Simpson’s hand....... An Instructor only able to teach LAPL and night is useless in a normal school. There may be a few niche schools that have accommodated them but that does not make it a viable career path i anybody’s book. It’s just hand to mouth teaching.
bose-x is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 21:04
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FL100
Posts: 22
Talking

Yeah I suppose it is better to charge £25 - £30 per hour and teach PPL than charge £40 - £60 per hour and teach IR(R)/MEP/IR and more for examinations. I am happy with my niche thanks!
AllanA is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 21:16
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,124
Originally Posted by AllanA View Post
Yeah I suppose it is better to charge £25 - £30 per hour and teach PPL than charge £40 - £60 per hour and teach IR(R)/MEP/IR and more for examinations. I am happy with my niche thanks!
non of which you are teaching on your heavily restricted FI......

dont false advertise.....
bose-x is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 21:30
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: FL100
Posts: 22
Donít descend to accusations please, no false advertising here, you stick to your world and I am happy in mine thanks very much. It works for me and I am sure yours works for you.

There are many types of flight that can be taught without CPL TK, there is standalone MEP CRI and standalone IRI which are quite achievable without CPL TK, an FI(A) without CPL TK can teach LAPL and night ratings but cannot teach PPL. The CAA do authorise the teaching of IR(R) with IR TK, they even changed the IN to reflect this. Also an FI(A) can examine LAPL and NPPL but not PPL. I donít teach PPL thatís true and that is a limitation but it bothers me not a jot because there is plenty of other work in my MEP/IR(R)/IR/PBN and glass cockpit niche to keep me happy.

So letís politely agree to disagree on this one.

Last edited by AllanA; 15th May 2018 at 21:57.
AllanA is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2018, 07:54
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 7,124
An FI without CPL TK can teach only for LAPL and NIght.

Everything else you do is done under different ratings. You are false advertising what FI without CPL TK can do and muddying the waters with the additional stuff you do. I am glad you have a niche that works for you but misleading people into thinking that a FI with CPL TK is a viable way to make a living is wrong.

I am speaking as the Head of Training of a large school and someone who holds all the qualifications you do and many more. We NEVER teach ab initio LAPL courses. We NEVER teach ab initio NPPL courses. Both are routes historically for people converting licences and are rare. The core of our business is PPL, CPL, ME, IR and Class and Type Ratings. So the only thing an FI without CPL TK could do for me is teach a night Rating. Which means they have no chance of getting a job with us. There may be a few nich operators out there that could use such a limited rating but encouraging people to undertake an expensive course with little chance of work at the end is wrong.

All of your extra teaching qualifications also come at significant cost in terms of gaining the experience to teach them and the additional courses needed. None of that comes with a LAPL restricted FI.

So no no we can’t agree to disagree because I believe you are being dishonest with your answers in relation to the original question.
bose-x is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service