EASA ATPLer looking to become an CFI in the US
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EASA ATPLer looking to become an CFI in the US
Dear fellow aviators,
After having graduated from CAE OAA 7 months ago, I'm looking into the world of instructing. It seems like there are a lot more FI jobs in the FAA land than in EASA.
Having done most of my flight training in Phoenix, I'd love the oppertunity to teach students to fly.
Google has yielded little information about the whole process. So I'd like to know how to go about it.
Thanks in advance
After having graduated from CAE OAA 7 months ago, I'm looking into the world of instructing. It seems like there are a lot more FI jobs in the FAA land than in EASA.
Having done most of my flight training in Phoenix, I'd love the oppertunity to teach students to fly.
Google has yielded little information about the whole process. So I'd like to know how to go about it.
Thanks in advance
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EASA ATPLer looking to become an CFI in the US
Why can't you find an airline job in EASA land, or doesn't that interest you? Seems a waste to have done all that training and not found work after 7 months.
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So you have a CPL, not sure what it takes to convert but I'm sure it would be writtens, Commercial course and flight test for SE/IFR or ME/IFR. It would involve a test on both if you wanted both.
If you have 30PIC on multi then you could do a ME CRI and become a multi instructor here as try are short around my neck of the woods.
If you have 30PIC on multi then you could do a ME CRI and become a multi instructor here as try are short around my neck of the woods.
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Any ATO that offers the ME FI course/CRI course. The best way round would be FI, ME FI, and IRI. You would need some IF time to get the IRI/FI instrument I think it's 200 or 800 for the IRI.
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If I am to follow this course I will be needing money.
And the only way I can get my hands on that is by a loan from the bank. Any the only way they're going to agree to that is if I have a job guarantee at the end of the training. Is there a institution that offers that in the US?
And the only way I can get my hands on that is by a loan from the bank. Any the only way they're going to agree to that is if I have a job guarantee at the end of the training. Is there a institution that offers that in the US?
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EASA ATPLer looking to become an CFI in the US
Not when they have enough US citizens to do the job.
It's very unlikely you'll be able to get a job in the US, legally, once you are trained, and based purely on your flying credentials. It just won't happen. Best bet would be to find a US citizen who will marry you and sponsor your visa. I won't go into all the details, but there just isn't a workable option of getting a visa which will allow you to go and work in the US.
The only person I know who managed to pull it off was a very experienced bloke who had been doing the rounds for 10-15 years as an FI/FE and chief flight instructor around the UK... He was able to work for Oxford in the UK for over a year, and then obtain an L-1 visa as an intracompany transferee and go work for Oxford out in Goodyear and emigrate properly off the back of that.
I'm a British born UK citizen, and I did all my training (the proper FAA stuff that I actually value, and not the complete crap pedalled by EASA/JAA) "down the road" at Chandler Air Service, and despite meeting with numerous immigration attorneys, and Chandler being willing to hire me, there just weren't workable options (we might have got an EB-3, but no guarantee) for them to sponsor me to go there and work for them.
Here are some facts;
If there are US citizens available who can do the job, that is grounds not to take on a foreigner...
They have to advertise for the job you'll do, and if people apply and they turn them down, they have to explain to immigration why...
They'll have to outlay all the money to get you there, and sponsor you. You will be committed to working for your sponsors...
They can't just write up a bent job advert that suits you but is discriminatory to others...
You won't be allowed "immigrant intent" with the visa that may work, so will have no real plan of being able to stay.
There were formerly options to stay on after training, but these were only for people with no flying experience doing a full-course, and as far as I know are no longer in existence.
I suggest you do your research on here, British expat forums and US immigration questions/answers all over the internet.
There is no "special relationship" between the US/UK, and I deep down think the US immigration system in general dislikes Brit's as they are one of the few nationalities that don't embrace US citizenship, and won't integrate to become part of the US properly as a citizen - they just stay as green card holding permanent residents and have a chip on their shoulders about being British. Whereas most other nationalities will go there and become American and fully embrace the lifestyle.
It is my plan to emigrate there one day (father is a US citizen) but even with family sponsorship it's taking years. I gave up holding my breath a long time ago, and have done my research and believe what I've just said holds a lot of weight and isn't aimed at pissing you off or being negative, but just what I've learned so far.
All the best.
It's very unlikely you'll be able to get a job in the US, legally, once you are trained, and based purely on your flying credentials. It just won't happen. Best bet would be to find a US citizen who will marry you and sponsor your visa. I won't go into all the details, but there just isn't a workable option of getting a visa which will allow you to go and work in the US.
The only person I know who managed to pull it off was a very experienced bloke who had been doing the rounds for 10-15 years as an FI/FE and chief flight instructor around the UK... He was able to work for Oxford in the UK for over a year, and then obtain an L-1 visa as an intracompany transferee and go work for Oxford out in Goodyear and emigrate properly off the back of that.
I'm a British born UK citizen, and I did all my training (the proper FAA stuff that I actually value, and not the complete crap pedalled by EASA/JAA) "down the road" at Chandler Air Service, and despite meeting with numerous immigration attorneys, and Chandler being willing to hire me, there just weren't workable options (we might have got an EB-3, but no guarantee) for them to sponsor me to go there and work for them.
Here are some facts;
If there are US citizens available who can do the job, that is grounds not to take on a foreigner...
They have to advertise for the job you'll do, and if people apply and they turn them down, they have to explain to immigration why...
They'll have to outlay all the money to get you there, and sponsor you. You will be committed to working for your sponsors...
They can't just write up a bent job advert that suits you but is discriminatory to others...
You won't be allowed "immigrant intent" with the visa that may work, so will have no real plan of being able to stay.
There were formerly options to stay on after training, but these were only for people with no flying experience doing a full-course, and as far as I know are no longer in existence.
I suggest you do your research on here, British expat forums and US immigration questions/answers all over the internet.
There is no "special relationship" between the US/UK, and I deep down think the US immigration system in general dislikes Brit's as they are one of the few nationalities that don't embrace US citizenship, and won't integrate to become part of the US properly as a citizen - they just stay as green card holding permanent residents and have a chip on their shoulders about being British. Whereas most other nationalities will go there and become American and fully embrace the lifestyle.
It is my plan to emigrate there one day (father is a US citizen) but even with family sponsorship it's taking years. I gave up holding my breath a long time ago, and have done my research and believe what I've just said holds a lot of weight and isn't aimed at pissing you off or being negative, but just what I've learned so far.
All the best.
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I don't think you will have much getting a working visa for FI stuff whenever they're a lot of locals that can do it. green card lottery might be the best bet (if available to you, I know little about it).
One other thing that comes to mind is that if you trained with CAE, I presume you did an integrated course, which means a lot of your PIC hours are not proper PIC hours but are SPIC, which might make all the difference for things like the ME CRI course.
One other thing that comes to mind is that if you trained with CAE, I presume you did an integrated course, which means a lot of your PIC hours are not proper PIC hours but are SPIC, which might make all the difference for things like the ME CRI course.
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299 hours total and you say you have an ATPL? That must be some kind of record. And you say you want to instruct... God help the students! Really, what can you offer a student with your minuscule experience?
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I think we know what he means by ATPL. Yes the difference should be known and made clear but that's mostly (IMO) the fault of places like CAE who insist on always referring to the courses as ATPL courses. The school I trained at (modular, although primarily an integrated school) they did the same thing and I would be surprised if more than half the students knew they would hold a CPL at the end of it.
I also want to defend low hour instructors slightly or at least not have them all banded together. I am not one myself but the instructor I had for my IR had only completed an integrated course about 2 years prior to me doing the IR and was one of, if not the best instructor(s) I had.
I also want to defend low hour instructors slightly or at least not have them all banded together. I am not one myself but the instructor I had for my IR had only completed an integrated course about 2 years prior to me doing the IR and was one of, if not the best instructor(s) I had.
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CB
If he was teaching an IR, he obviously wasn't a newbie. As an ex chief flying instructor, alarm bells would ring when I see a low hour sausage factory pilot on pprune asking about Fly Dubai on one thread then instructing on another.
Oh, if someone does not know what licence he or she holds, he or she is probably unfit to exercise the privelages thereof.
To the OP, you would obviously have to do an FAA licence. I'm not sure if your 223 hours (nobody counts sim time) meets the minimum requirements? I've a feeling it is 250.
Either way, good luck to the OP. It is way better than paying to fly...
If he was teaching an IR, he obviously wasn't a newbie. As an ex chief flying instructor, alarm bells would ring when I see a low hour sausage factory pilot on pprune asking about Fly Dubai on one thread then instructing on another.
Oh, if someone does not know what licence he or she holds, he or she is probably unfit to exercise the privelages thereof.
To the OP, you would obviously have to do an FAA licence. I'm not sure if your 223 hours (nobody counts sim time) meets the minimum requirements? I've a feeling it is 250.
Either way, good luck to the OP. It is way better than paying to fly...
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I agree everyone should know what licence they are going to or do hold, I just think it's not entirely the holders fault although they should care more about their chosen career as to get things right.
The instructor I had did not have 200 hours, he had been instructor since 'graduating' from the FTO. My point was more that I believe he was a good instructor despite having no real commercial experience.
As well as not counting the sim time I would reiterate to the OP to check if his SPIC hours count as PIC for what they would need to.
The instructor I had did not have 200 hours, he had been instructor since 'graduating' from the FTO. My point was more that I believe he was a good instructor despite having no real commercial experience.
As well as not counting the sim time I would reiterate to the OP to check if his SPIC hours count as PIC for what they would need to.
This whole idea of wet-behind-the-ears minimum time CPL holders becoming FIs is plain daft.
Which other profession uses its least experienced people to train newcomers?
In the UK military, pilots have to be selected as suitable to become qualified flying instructors and their subsequent progress is carefully monitored. Whereas in the civil world, it's very often low timers (with zero real world experience) desperate for RHS people-tube slots who try to become FIs.
The answer? Airlines should go back to running their own pilot selection and training programmes. But will bottom-line bean counters agree to that? Not a chance......
Which other profession uses its least experienced people to train newcomers?
In the UK military, pilots have to be selected as suitable to become qualified flying instructors and their subsequent progress is carefully monitored. Whereas in the civil world, it's very often low timers (with zero real world experience) desperate for RHS people-tube slots who try to become FIs.
The answer? Airlines should go back to running their own pilot selection and training programmes. But will bottom-line bean counters agree to that? Not a chance......
299 hours vs 233 'actual'? May I presume the difference was in a ground trainer of some kind? Ground trainer time does not count towards your flight time (except for some very limited credits that can be applied to meet the min. experience requirements for some licences/ratings/certificates). So, in the flying world you have 233 hours, not 299.
FAA CPL requires 250 hours + various subtotals (under Part 61 training, which can credit all flying hours), or not less than 190 hours (under Part 141, which may only credit training time under the approved 141 course. Fair bet to say that your training wasn't under an approved 141 course). That being the case, you don't meet the requirements for an FAA CPL. You will also require an FAA instrument rating prior to training for the instructor rating although you could use the IR training as a way to gain hours to meet the CPL requirements.
However (big however!) unless you have the right to work in the USA - or somewhere else that accepts FAA licences - then doing an FAA CPL etc would be useless to you.
I don't wish to keep harping on a point, but you don't do yourself any favours by claiming a higher licence than the one that was issued to you. A CPL is not an ATPL. Inside UK/JAR/EASA realm, Frozen ATPL got bandied around as a marketing tool by various flying schools to make their product seem better than a 'mere' CPL + IR + ATPL exams, and has become a de-facto shorthand for those qualifications. Still not an ATPL though and the term 'Frozen ATPL' isn't generally understood outside the influence of that region. Instead you can be seen as claiming something you don't have.
FAA CPL requires 250 hours + various subtotals (under Part 61 training, which can credit all flying hours), or not less than 190 hours (under Part 141, which may only credit training time under the approved 141 course. Fair bet to say that your training wasn't under an approved 141 course). That being the case, you don't meet the requirements for an FAA CPL. You will also require an FAA instrument rating prior to training for the instructor rating although you could use the IR training as a way to gain hours to meet the CPL requirements.
However (big however!) unless you have the right to work in the USA - or somewhere else that accepts FAA licences - then doing an FAA CPL etc would be useless to you.
I don't wish to keep harping on a point, but you don't do yourself any favours by claiming a higher licence than the one that was issued to you. A CPL is not an ATPL. Inside UK/JAR/EASA realm, Frozen ATPL got bandied around as a marketing tool by various flying schools to make their product seem better than a 'mere' CPL + IR + ATPL exams, and has become a de-facto shorthand for those qualifications. Still not an ATPL though and the term 'Frozen ATPL' isn't generally understood outside the influence of that region. Instead you can be seen as claiming something you don't have.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 8th Jun 2014 at 23:36.
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Sapperkenno,
not long ago, CAE-Oxford advertised FI positions for their Phoenix operation. Acceptable nationalities were UK and Belgium (I'm uneligible, unfortunately).
Back in the day flight schools were interested in dual rated JAA and FAA instructors. I don't know what's the status nowadays.
As you correctly point out, if you work for a company that has a branch in the US, after 1 year working for them, the company could request an L-1 and you could work your way from there.
I had one but unfortunately I lost my class I medical temporarily and I was laid off by my employer.
Words of wisdom.
Also... flying is the US is a whole different experience than flying in Europe.
not long ago, CAE-Oxford advertised FI positions for their Phoenix operation. Acceptable nationalities were UK and Belgium (I'm uneligible, unfortunately).
Back in the day flight schools were interested in dual rated JAA and FAA instructors. I don't know what's the status nowadays.
As you correctly point out, if you work for a company that has a branch in the US, after 1 year working for them, the company could request an L-1 and you could work your way from there.
I had one but unfortunately I lost my class I medical temporarily and I was laid off by my employer.
(the proper FAA stuff that I actually value, and not the complete crap pedalled by EASA/JAA)
Also... flying is the US is a whole different experience than flying in Europe.
