UK PPL MEP Lapsed License renewal process help

[long final]

Hello all,

I have a friend who is looking to renew his PPL(A) SEP & MEP. He hasn't flown for some time, and though he is now checking, thinks it is less than 7 years since he had currency.

I have spent some time looking through Part FCL and can find no reference regarding what he needs to do.

Anyone able to shed some light on this and maybe point to the regulations regarding?

Many thanks.

[MrAverage]

For his SEP he will need to go to either an ATO or an RTF and the Head of Training will specify what remedial training he needs before an LPC with an examiner.

For the MEP only an ATO that is approved for MEP will do.

In both cases there will be different interpretations of how much training is required, especially the MEP where some will insist on the the full course and the written.

My MEP is just over four years out. I had planned to do it this summer but got caught by the recent change from 5 years cut off to 3 - which annoyingly was not notified in advance - and I'm looking for a Head of Training who might trust a very experienced Multi Instructor to just give me what I need before my LPC!

[Curtis E Carr]

You may wish to look at my reply to this thread which may be helpful

[MrAverage]

Thanks Curtiss,

However I think we both need fixed wing help. Personally, if I can't find a HOT that will approve something sensible I'll have to forget my MEP. Doing the whole course again is just too expensive.

long final

I know someone who can help with your friend's SEP if he wants to PM me.

[taxistaxing]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804rfs.pdf

Doc linked to above looks relevant (takes some wading through). Call the CAA for the horses mouth.

Unless I've misunderstood the question, your friendly will have to apply for a new license (which will be an EASA non expiring license) and will have to revalidate his class ratings for both SEP and MEP.

I reval'd my PPL early last year. I was within the 7 year expiry period (just) so only had to pass a proficiency check to renew my SEP class rating (which expires after 2 years), and pay the CAA for a new license.

I missed the EASA cutoff so have been issued with another JAA license, which will be replaced by an EASA license next time I renew/add a rating.

[Whopity]

I was within the 7 yea expiry period (just)

No such thing, the the licence had a validity of 5 years and the 2 year rating validity runs concurrent with this. The only reference to 7 year validity is in relation to an IR!

[taxistaxing]

Quite right. Apologies for misinforming.

I wonder whether that is a change that has been made as a result of EASA. I called the CAA when I renewed my PPL in early 2012. It had expired in 2010 so I had to apply for a new license and renew my SEP rating.

I was told there was no issue with this because it was less than 7 years since the date of expiry of my PPL.

[Whopity]

Pre JAR there were validity periods that determined what you had to do to get it back, but that all ceased in 1999. EASA has now made things more restrictive because you now have to go to a school for any renewal because Examiners can no longer be trusted to do the job properly without supervision!

[long final]

Thanks for all the input. It is appreciated.

[long final]

Can I add another question. What would happen if the license was pre JAA and the privileges had not been exercised since say 1998. What would be the situation regarding renewing the license / ratings then??

[Whopity]

Still training at the discretion of an ATO to pas the Skill Test. Pre EASA you had to retake the MEP Exam after 5 years, but no mention of that in FCL.740

[long final]

Thanks again.

[slr737]

Call the CAA regarding a rating expired by more than 3 years.

They informed me that I should go initially for the full course as written in the AMC.

they also said that pilots will not need as much training as someone going for the initial rating.

So if my progress was good, the HOT of the ATO could reduce the number of training hours required. but that will depend on the experience the pilot had previously. if that reduction is used, the ATO should before the course start specify what would be the minimum course.

more info PM me

[Whopity]

Or put simply, you train people to the standard required to pass the test however long that may take

AMC FCL 1.740 (b) Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should develop an individual training programme that should be based on the initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where the applicant has shown the greatest needs.

So ultimately, the decision is down to the ATO, where the HT will have more relevant knowledge and experience than a clerk whose only contact with aeroplanes is to look out of the CAA window!

[long final]

Indeed! Thanks for the link / info - I had been trying to find that. It all looks pretty straight forward.

[BillieBob]

It is worth noting that the ATO has complete discretion over the amount of training and is under no obligation to take any notice whatever of the examples given in the AMC, which states that these items 'can' be taken into consideration - not 'must', not 'should' but 'can'.

[Turb]

Well it shows how out of date I am because the only acronym I understood in all that is PPL, which is what I have. And I want to start flying again.

I passed my group A GFT in 1982 and flew just over 300 hours up to 1994, mostly in taildraggers, quite a lot in Europe, and down to Casablanca in a Turbulent in 1986 (I won the Tiger Club Touring Medal in for that trip). I did a short course to convert to Microlights in 2002 and that's the last annual stamp I have in my log book. My PPL licence clearly states that it 'shall remain in force for for the holder's lifetime unless revoked, varied or suspended'. But in my experience governments are the most untrustworthy institutions on the planet so I expect they've abrogated that by now.

I'd appreciate knowing two things:
1. Who deals with this sort of thing at the CAA?
2. Which training organisations specialise in taking people like me and getting them flying again? I think I'd like to go somewhere and stay until I've finished. I don't fancy traipsing down the local flying club twice a week for a year.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Whopity]

Why do you need to contact the CAA?

You just need enough training to pass the test all of which can be done at a local club, you can't do it anywhere else.

Then send in the paperwork and get the license reissued, that may involve getting a new EASA lifetime license as your UK national license will be of limited use after 2014.