LAA Coaching scheme
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LAA Coaching scheme
A couple of years or so ago, when I was an LAA (may have been PFA then) member I wrote to them enquiring about joining the Coaching scheme, with many hours instructing behind me, including many on Tailwheel, experience on a number of LAA types and strip operation I did think I would be a good candidate but got no response. Asking around I was told that those in charge were "a bit up their own b'sides" and I left it.
I had heard that those in charge had changed for the better so decided to try again, it would be one thing to be told that I do not fit their requirements, but to be ignored is both rude and annoying, is this other people's experience or am I just unlucky?
I had heard that those in charge had changed for the better so decided to try again, it would be one thing to be told that I do not fit their requirements, but to be ignored is both rude and annoying, is this other people's experience or am I just unlucky?
Last edited by foxmoth; 8th Jun 2012 at 18:28.
I'm an LAA member, LAA test pilot, CRI, CPL, low 4-figure hours split between "group A", 3-axis and flexwing microlights and flight test observing in just about anything heavier-than-air ever built; 97 types, 64 of them as PiC, with a reasonable selection of LAA types, 250ish tailwheel, lots of strip flying.
I applied about a year ago, they sent me a stack of forms, which I returned. One significant figure (at that time) is about 850 hrs PiC between SEP and microlights, I'd also only just done my CRI course.
They replied without any discussion...
So I'm afraid that my experience is very similar to yours. I'm cleared by LAA Engineering to test fly these aeroplanes, and authorised by CAA/JAA to charge somebody to then teach them to fly them, but LAA coaching scheme considered me insufficiently experienced and qualified to even interview or fly with me against the possibility of doing it for free as a volunteer.
G
I applied about a year ago, they sent me a stack of forms, which I returned. One significant figure (at that time) is about 850 hrs PiC between SEP and microlights, I'd also only just done my CRI course.
They replied without any discussion...
I have reviewed your application and can advise that at present you do not meet the criteria set out in Coaching Scheme Leaflet 3.1, which states that the Pilot Coaching Scheme requires it's coaches to have approximately 1,000 hours P1 in SEP aircraft.
G
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Yep I got the same response last year. Similar number of hours many of which instructing but not sufficient experience on tailwheel. I now have the experience on tailwheel but have no desire to re-apply on the basis of the rather "you're not good enough for our club response".
There's only one or two LAA coaches left in Scotland and yet in my magazine it tells me how keen they are to increase the number of coaches. I'm far from perfect but at least I'm an instructor willing to give my time in exchange for coffee and chat.
Decided not to bother with it. It's something they could definitely handle much better
There's only one or two LAA coaches left in Scotland and yet in my magazine it tells me how keen they are to increase the number of coaches. I'm far from perfect but at least I'm an instructor willing to give my time in exchange for coffee and chat.
Decided not to bother with it. It's something they could definitely handle much better
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Well at least you got a reply, I have not even had that! The bit that cheeses me off is that I instruct an LAA group for their new members going onto type and also do the hour instructing with them to revalidate, but as an instructor but not a coach I cannot sign their licence and have to send them to an examiner or coach for that.
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I agree there's really nothing more frustrating. I emailed them initially and got no response so I actually phoned them up at the time as I was struggling finding their requirements presuming that was what was going on. I was told them and explained my situation and got a bit of a stonewall response.
I shall be looking for your letter next month in the LAA mag.
I shall be looking for your letter next month in the LAA mag.
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I am an LAA coach and can assure you the scheme is run by dedicated and experienced people in a professional manner. They are however volunteers in an age where people seem insistent on immediacy....
Experience wise, they rightly look at people with a great breadth of experience as a lot of LAA types are outside the complacent spam can envelope.
Experience wise, they rightly look at people with a great breadth of experience as a lot of LAA types are outside the complacent spam can envelope.
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Bose, that is why I thought I might be a good candidate, think I fit that pretty well! I had not expected an immediate response, especially as there was the jubilee weekend in between emailing and posting this, but my previouse experience had left me a bit dissapointed and the delay on my email the other day left me feeling frustrated, I have now had a response though and it looks like my mail had not been received, maybe the LAA needs to look at their comms, or maybe just one of those things, anyway, will let people know what happens, maybe with the requirements and what to do if you fit them.
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OK, LAA been back to me now, nice positive response, looks like a hotmail email goes in their junk folder which seems a bit strange, also found the stuff on the site that tells you how to apply and what the requirements are.iPad did not seem to want to go to that bit of the site but got there with some persistence.
Let you know how it goes.
Let you know how it goes.
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Update
Having got a response I have now managed to get approved as a coach. The LAA are actually very helpful but at present their email system does tend to throw stuff in the junk bin and this is not helped by their website not working well on iPads, a lot of stuff I was looking for I found once I used my windows laptop, I understand the website is being updated, but being run largely by volunteers it is not going to happen overnight.
If you meet the requirements and are wanting to join the scheme then I would suggest emailing Jon Cooke direct, his mail is on the LAA site fairly prominently now. For those that complain about not being accepted when they do not meet the minimum I would ask that you remember much of what is done is with the goodwill of the CAA and if the boundaries are pushed then that goodwill can be harmed, the requirements are NOT that onerous, so make sure you can meet them first rather than be rejected and then complain.
Lastly of course, if anyone is looking for a Coach in central Southern UK please get in touch.
Having got a response I have now managed to get approved as a coach. The LAA are actually very helpful but at present their email system does tend to throw stuff in the junk bin and this is not helped by their website not working well on iPads, a lot of stuff I was looking for I found once I used my windows laptop, I understand the website is being updated, but being run largely by volunteers it is not going to happen overnight.
If you meet the requirements and are wanting to join the scheme then I would suggest emailing Jon Cooke direct, his mail is on the LAA site fairly prominently now. For those that complain about not being accepted when they do not meet the minimum I would ask that you remember much of what is done is with the goodwill of the CAA and if the boundaries are pushed then that goodwill can be harmed, the requirements are NOT that onerous, so make sure you can meet them first rather than be rejected and then complain.
Lastly of course, if anyone is looking for a Coach in central Southern UK please get in touch.
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Thats good news Foxmoth. A little patience and perseverance does pay off in the end! Welcome to LAA Coaching, you will it very rewarding and varied and fly a lot of very interesting types in due course.
Drop me a PM if you need any help or advice or of course Cookie who is a fountain of knowledge.
Drop me a PM if you need any help or advice or of course Cookie who is a fountain of knowledge.
For those that complain about not being accepted when they do not meet the minimum I would ask that you remember much of what is done is with the goodwill of the CAA and if the boundaries are pushed then that goodwill can be harmed, the requirements are NOT that onerous, so
I'll get over it, and actually have turned out not to be short of interesting instructing across PtF and CofA aeroplanes since getting my CRI anyhow, it just would have been good to combine that role with the bits of LAA test flying I do.
G
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Genghis, with all respect, you as an Instructor should know the difference between SEP and Microlight. Despite being a commercial pilot myself I think it is arrogant of commercial pilots to think that holding a CPL would automatically make them a better candidate than a CPL.
The LAA coaching scheme is about putting the most experienced pilots in the hot seat. That experience comes from having been out and actually done it extensively rather than just on bought ratings. To that end the system works really well. It is well structured and quality checked which is more than can be said for a lot of Instructors!!
I am sure when you meet the requirements, a man of your breadth of experience would make an excellent addition to the coaching team.
The LAA coaching scheme is about putting the most experienced pilots in the hot seat. That experience comes from having been out and actually done it extensively rather than just on bought ratings. To that end the system works really well. It is well structured and quality checked which is more than can be said for a lot of Instructors!!
I am sure when you meet the requirements, a man of your breadth of experience would make an excellent addition to the coaching team.
I do know the difference - but apparently the LAA is rather inconsistent in that. It requires 1000hrs SEP to become an LAA coach, but they permit those coaches to instruct/coach in a number of microlight types.
I didn't "buy my ratings" of-course, I worked for them like anybody else - in my case a CPL(SEP) which I started around the time I passed 1000hrs TT, and a CRI that I did around 1200 hours. Both doubtless improved my flying standards, I think that this should have some relevance.
But my personal gripe, and I know I perhaps should let it rest for a few years is straightforward - I applied to become an LAA coach, with at the least over 1000hrs on piston engined aeroplanes, a CPL and CRI, but yes a significant number of those hours on microlights. That was rejected out of hand, apparently because of the lack of SEP hours alone. I was never interviewed or even spoken to on the phone, nobody flew with me, nobody took up any references from anybody I'd flown with.
Had they done a few of those things, and *then* told me I wasn't up to it, I would have no issue, although would certainly have asked for a thorough debrief and gone off to improve myself. But essentially refusing to count my microlight hours, for a role that could potentially include instructing on microlights, seems to have been a decider that prevented any other and arguably more effective method of determining whether I was up to the role.
So I got a bit grumpy about it.
G
I didn't "buy my ratings" of-course, I worked for them like anybody else - in my case a CPL(SEP) which I started around the time I passed 1000hrs TT, and a CRI that I did around 1200 hours. Both doubtless improved my flying standards, I think that this should have some relevance.
But my personal gripe, and I know I perhaps should let it rest for a few years is straightforward - I applied to become an LAA coach, with at the least over 1000hrs on piston engined aeroplanes, a CPL and CRI, but yes a significant number of those hours on microlights. That was rejected out of hand, apparently because of the lack of SEP hours alone. I was never interviewed or even spoken to on the phone, nobody flew with me, nobody took up any references from anybody I'd flown with.
Had they done a few of those things, and *then* told me I wasn't up to it, I would have no issue, although would certainly have asked for a thorough debrief and gone off to improve myself. But essentially refusing to count my microlight hours, for a role that could potentially include instructing on microlights, seems to have been a decider that prevented any other and arguably more effective method of determining whether I was up to the role.
So I got a bit grumpy about it.
G
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I can see your point G, but would you not rather have been told at the beginning that due to rules laid down the micro light hours could not be counted, rather than go through what you suggest and then, having gone through all the hassle, be told, wasting your time and money? Plus of course the time taken by the LAA (again, mostly giving up their own time). I would agree that maybe a better explanation would help and maybe this is something the powers in the LAA can take away from this, after all, as you say, with your experience I am sure you would be a welcome addition when you finally meet the requirements
Last edited by foxmoth; 14th Aug 2012 at 15:15.
Perhaps.
At some point I may try again, but the treatment didn't impress me much and I was a member trying to volunteer to do something for nothing as well.
Perhaps leave the issue now; doubtless there are good people doing good work within the coaching scheme, and well done to them. Similarly, there are doubtless many outside it who should stay out due to a lack of experience of "the right sort" of flying. My disagreement was solely over how it was decided and communicated which camp I appeared to sit in and this ultimately is a matter of opinion and management style - what can't be disputed is that they are erring on the side of safety, nor that the coaching scheme is very much a good thing.
G
At some point I may try again, but the treatment didn't impress me much and I was a member trying to volunteer to do something for nothing as well.
Perhaps leave the issue now; doubtless there are good people doing good work within the coaching scheme, and well done to them. Similarly, there are doubtless many outside it who should stay out due to a lack of experience of "the right sort" of flying. My disagreement was solely over how it was decided and communicated which camp I appeared to sit in and this ultimately is a matter of opinion and management style - what can't be disputed is that they are erring on the side of safety, nor that the coaching scheme is very much a good thing.
G