PPL Instructors flying into cloud?
Join Date: May 2008
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Many years ago now but I was flying through cloud at a very early stage in PPL training and several of my initial handling exercises were done VFR on top, having climbed up through a couple of thousand feet of solid IMC.
In terms of covering ex19, I would not hesitate to put someone into a real cloud. With screens or foggles, you still get some peripheral vision. If you have the screens up and then fly into actual IMC, there is a noticable difference in how the student controls the aircraft, and the "leans" will occour much more often. A much better lesson for the student to learn in a safe environment. I find teaching with the screens or foggles can give a false sense that it is actually quite easy flying in cloud, and the rare cocky student could go off and do it on their own on purpose thinking they can handle it.
it is hard to justify the extra cost of climbing to 4-5000' before you can even start a lesson on say straight and level
Why fly an instrument approach? A quick radar to visual or spiral down through a hole to VMC will do.
Although I did find that a lot of PPL FIs weren't that all that keen on 'real' IF used practically....
Avoid imitations
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Personally when operating in class G a solid cloud base at 600ft and viz 1000m with a freezing level of 2000ft means I have less to worry about in respect to having a mid air than when the wx is CAVOK.
I know that as well as getting a radar service where available, you will use your transponder with Mode C selected. Everyone else please do the same. TCAS/TAS equipped aircraft will have a far better chance of arranging to avoid you, possibly without you even knowing they were there.
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So would you sooner bounce around with no decent horizon against which to teach attitude flying, or nip up through the clouds to use a clear horizon and smooth air? The chances are that the student would learn nothing from the first option, but would pick it up very quickly above cloud.
Exactly, BEagle, couldn't agree more. When I was doing my CPL course in the late 80's I was taken to 7,000' , beautiful horizon and spent an hour polishing stall recoveries. We shared the sky with a Hunter from Boscombe Down going vertically a few miles away, sheer magic. Later the recovery back to base meant a diversion to Henstridge, lots of good learning there, too, so as a paying student I thought I got more than my money's worth.
Many years later, as a FI, I will use my IMC rating to get a student through weather to a good training area and will as much as possible use cloud for ex 19, in fact I think current thinking is to encourage this.
The Odd One
Exactly, BEagle, couldn't agree more. When I was doing my CPL course in the late 80's I was taken to 7,000' , beautiful horizon and spent an hour polishing stall recoveries. We shared the sky with a Hunter from Boscombe Down going vertically a few miles away, sheer magic. Later the recovery back to base meant a diversion to Henstridge, lots of good learning there, too, so as a paying student I thought I got more than my money's worth.
Many years later, as a FI, I will use my IMC rating to get a student through weather to a good training area and will as much as possible use cloud for ex 19, in fact I think current thinking is to encourage this.
The Odd One
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The only downside, which dogged my later training, was that I spent far too much time looking inside the cockpit & to this day, my lookout isn't always all that it should be.
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Foggles are not the same - you need to fly in cloud to counter the fear factor. One of my most valuable lessons as a PPL occurred when a x country navex was cancelled because a front came in early. My instructor agreed to do a couple of real low level circuits since the cloud base was now 500' AGL. I ended up climbing into cloud by mistake on the first downwind leg. Whilst able to keep the plane level & descend, it was an alarming experience. The second circuit was much better. I'm glad my first and only experience of this was with a trusted instructor in the RH seat. I will definitely be much more relaxed if it happens for real.
For my GFT the cloud base was too low for the upper air work so the examiner made me climb through about 2000' of cloud to VMC on top. Of course I then had to descend back through it. As I popped out underneath at about 1700' I was thinking that went quite well and he chopped the power for the PFL.
One thing puzzled me. How did he know where we were. The C152 had no navaids at all, apart from a DI and compass of course.
One thing puzzled me. How did he know where we were. The C152 had no navaids at all, apart from a DI and compass of course.
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One thing puzzled me. How did he know where we were. The C152 had no navaids at all, apart from a DI and compass of course.
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... and if is not uniform, you can fly the "cloudscape" for quite some time, for example you can pick one conspicuous cloud and use it as your anchor point - it will broadly be moving with the wind at that altitude.
And if there are power stations with cooling tower plumes in the area which punch a bit through the cloud layer - these are stationary and make great landmarks.
And if there are power stations with cooling tower plumes in the area which punch a bit through the cloud layer - these are stationary and make great landmarks.
