PPL test on a Mustang?

[Trim Stab]

I have a friend who hold FAA CPL, plus French (non JAR) CPL, and flies a C510 Mustang. He wants to do a JAR PPL preferably in the UK. Presumably he will have to take the PPL multi-choice exam, and do the PPL flight test. Is it possible to do the latter on the Mustang? Does the PPL examiner have to hold a C510 rating?

Any examiners in Scotland who might want the job please pm me.

[foxmoth]

Really one for an examiner, but I think the examiner will need a rating, PLUS, if he wants to fly SEP he will need another test on an SEP aircraft!

[bingofuel]

If he holds a French CPL why does he not convert to an EASA CPL next year? What is the benefit of getting a JAR PPL when they will all become EASA licences soon, and his EASA CPL will allow him to do all a PPL would do.

As for doing a PPL skill test in a C510, I have to ask........WHY?

[Trim Stab]

He wants to take the PPL test in the Mustang because that is the aircraft that he flies regularly and is most current with - seems logical to me.

I suggested also that it would be better to get a French JAR PPL, but he is adamant that he wants to go down the UK route.

Anyway, I agreed to ask the question as I am curious as to whether he can do PPL test on the Mustang.

[S-Works]

The C510 requires a type rating. In order to do a type rating you will need to hold a licence to add it to. You will also need either an ATPL exam pass or a HPA exam pass as well as the type rating course. the tyep rating course will have it's own entry requirements.

So in a nutshell not simple.

[Heston]

Oh I thought you meant a P51... shame

H

[foxmoth]

With a French CPL and flying the aircraft already it looks like he may already have done the type rating course and have it on his French licence.

[S-Works]

I am a liitle confused actually. If he holds a French CPL then why does he not convert it to a JAA CPL. As a member state it should just be a paperwork excercise the same as someone converting a UK CPL.

[Trim Stab]

He does not have a JAR CPL - he holds the old French "Pilote Professionale" licence, equivalent to an old UK national CPL. I am not entirely sure myself why he does not convert this to a JAR CPL - but I think it may be to escape French bureaucracy when he retires in a few years. He just wants the UK JAR PPL in his back pocket so when he does retire, he can get a SEP rating and do some leisure flying. Anyway, I know he wants a UK JAR PPL, so whatever his reason, it is not illegal and so can we ignore that sideline?

He spends several weeks a year in Scotland while his employer plays golf, so he just wants to use the time to do the PPL written exams and a flight test, preferably on his employer's Mustang since this is the aircraft he knows best at the moment.

So does anybody know for sure whether the PPL examiner would have to have a C510 rating in order to do the flight test? Can anybody recommend a PPL school at Glasgow or Edinburgh?

[Whopity]

So does anybody know for sure whether the PPL examiner would have to have a C510 rating in order to do the flight test?

That is very easy to answer. An Examiner must be qualified to act as PIC of the aircraft he is examining on, and hold a valid rating to instruct on that Class/Type.

I understand what this chap is trying to do but even if he did obtain a PPL on such an aircraft he will still have to do an additional Class rating skill test to add the SEP rating, so why not start by doing the SEP and then perhaps transfer the Mustang rating to it.

To get a JAA PPL as the holder of an ICAO licence issued by a JAA member State, all he needs to do is:

A pilot licence issued by a JAA Member State in accordance with the national requirements of that State may be replaced by a JAR–FCL licence subject, where applicable, to conditions. For the replacement of such licences the holder shall:
(b)
(ii) for PPL(A) only demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Authority that a knowledge of the relevant parts of JAA Requirements (see AMC FCL 1.125) has been acquired;
(c) demonstrate a knowledge of English in accordance with JAR–FCL 1.200 if IR privileges are held;

Whilst AMC FCL 1.125 lists the entire PPL theory syllabus, an ICAO licence holder with the required experience from a non JAA State is only required to pass Air Law and HPL. He will then need to pass a Class rating Skill Test in a SEP aeroplane.

As all Type rating courses since 2000 have been in accordance with JAR-FCL it should not be difficult to transfer the C510 rating to this JAA PPL

He will also be required to obtain a UK FRTOL which might prove more difficult than getting the PPL

[foxmoth]

He will then need to pass a Class rating Skill Test in a SEP aeroplane

Is this a requirement these days? I know it is how it is normally done, but it certainly used to be you could do the test on any aircraft, the problem being of course that you were then only rated for that class of aircraft, so if you did it on the C510, that is ALL you would be able to fly until you did the extra tests on other class of aircraft.

[Trim Stab]

Thanks Whopity, I will pass that on.

[Whopity]

Is this a requirement these days?

No, its a suggestion to achieve the licence in a simple practical manner rather than trying to sleep whilst standing up in a hammock!
If you talk to the CAA nicely, they might just accept the C510 type rating and issue the PPL on the basis of that. They used to issue PPLs with 747 type ratings on conversion.

[foxmoth]

Thats what I thought - If he really wants to do it this way I think his best bet is to start by talking to the CAA (and get anything in writing - you do find with the CAA that one person tells you something and the next says something else!)

[Whopity]

you do find with the CAA that one person tells you something and the next says something else!

Indeed; and a clear indication that neither has a sound understanding of the requirements