How to include a language proficiency check with Sim training?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Never sure
How to include a language proficiency check with Sim training?
I was issued a standard level 4 English proficiency when my licence was issued in 2008. I was under the impression that to be upgraded to level 6 was a case of just doing a standard OPC or LPC and the examiner could sign you off.
So far every Sim session I have attended has not been overseen by a UK licenced examiner and so I still have level 4. I have an OPC comming up and the training facility says that for the language proficiency I have to pay 500 pounds!
I understand that there are language schools which can also sign you off but they are few and far between and I live overseas making it difficult to attend.
Can anyone shed any light on who can actually sign you off and how much it normally costs?
Thanks
So far every Sim session I have attended has not been overseen by a UK licenced examiner and so I still have level 4. I have an OPC comming up and the training facility says that for the language proficiency I have to pay 500 pounds!
I understand that there are language schools which can also sign you off but they are few and far between and I live overseas making it difficult to attend.
Can anyone shed any light on who can actually sign you off and how much it normally costs?
Thanks
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
The following document is provided as guidance for UK Examiners. In para 4.4 it lists the groups of examiners who are authorised to conduct "Informal" level 6 assessments.
Normally this is just a sign off if the candidate is obviously fluent. I have never heard of any charge being made. £500 is a rip-off!
Normally this is just a sign off if the candidate is obviously fluent. I have never heard of any charge being made. £500 is a rip-off!
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,137
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From: Australia
Here in Australia you have to be an approved level 6 assessor, we have to record the test so it's not just a case of signing someone off because they speak fluent English or something that can be done during a flight.
500 quid! Woah. The test takes about 20 minutes, that's not a bad hourly rate.
500 quid! Woah. The test takes about 20 minutes, that's not a bad hourly rate.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Never sure
I have copied in paragraphs of the CAA document linked in the above thread and still the training provider wants to charge 500 pounds.
The document also states that schools accredited by The British Council can conduct informal assessments. The British Council have never heard of this, I have spoken to several of them including their headquarters.
This is getting ridiculous.
The document also states that schools accredited by The British Council can conduct informal assessments. The British Council have never heard of this, I have spoken to several of them including their headquarters.
This is getting ridiculous.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
The British Council have never heard of this
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Belgium
GRUM
I am/was in the same situation - living outside the UK, but with a UK / JAA licence.
I have just resolved my problem, PM me for info.
re: the British council, they do have a list of approved testing places, one is in Columbia, the other in Spain (though probably not much help to you).
GB
I have just resolved my problem, PM me for info.
re: the British council, they do have a list of approved testing places, one is in Columbia, the other in Spain (though probably not much help to you).
GB
Joined: Feb 2010
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Grum, if you know personally a UK FI(A) he can sign you off.
There is no need to do a flight test, or even be in the UK, as long as the FI(A) is willing to put his signature on a form stating that you are level 6.
You could do it all by email, as long as you can convince the FI(A) that you really are who you are - hence it would have to be somebody who knows you personally.
There is no need to do a flight test, or even be in the UK, as long as the FI(A) is willing to put his signature on a form stating that you are level 6.
You could do it all by email, as long as you can convince the FI(A) that you really are who you are - hence it would have to be somebody who knows you personally.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
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From: UK
The document also states that schools accredited by The British Council can conduct informal assessments. The British Council have never heard of this, I have spoken to several of them including their headquarters.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Never sure
I'm just tagging this at the bottom of the thread in case someone has the same problem and does a search.
LPLUS GmbH - About Us
These people will do an online test! Brilliant, you can be anywhere in the world.
Mods I hope that isn't breaking the rules but It took me months to find this solution and thought it useful to share.
LPLUS GmbH - About Us
These people will do an online test! Brilliant, you can be anywhere in the world.
Mods I hope that isn't breaking the rules but It took me months to find this solution and thought it useful to share.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 680
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From: Who cares? ;-)
hm, lplus is a German company, seated in Bremen, and according to the LBA (German CAA) list of accredited language schools, it is not listed.
As a level 4 examiner I was taught certain methods for doing the examination and I would NEVER do it over the phone! There are ways for proving that English is your mother language and sending that proof to the authorities to check it (my American passport, plus I had a conversation with the LBA), but it otherwise needs a proper evaluation.
I'm sure there are different ways of doing it in different countries. But to have your level 6 added to your UK JAR-FCL it would, I think, have to be an examiner/school approved by the UK CAA.
As a level 4 examiner I was taught certain methods for doing the examination and I would NEVER do it over the phone! There are ways for proving that English is your mother language and sending that proof to the authorities to check it (my American passport, plus I had a conversation with the LBA), but it otherwise needs a proper evaluation.
I'm sure there are different ways of doing it in different countries. But to have your level 6 added to your UK JAR-FCL it would, I think, have to be an examiner/school approved by the UK CAA.
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Augusta, Georgia, USA (back from Germany again)
The German LBA doesn't accept the FAA "English Proficient" on a certificate "because it has no test date" and consequently no expiration date. Doesn't matter that I have an American passport...
So, I went through a similiar, sometimes humorous experience as above as I worked to get German recognition of my FAA license. I had to have a minimum of Level 4, of course. As an American I thought it was funny that I would have to prove I speak English, but I can speak German-as-a-foreign-language on the radio without "proving" I speak German!
One of my club's members is an approved tester for people who have existing/grandfathered Level 4 proficiency, but cannot do initial tests or anything higher than Level 4. He eventually learned there are now provisions to prove one is a native speaker and get Level 6 that way. If I had been able to documentat that I had spent the first ten years of my life in a country where English is an official language, I would not have needed a test. Three thousand miles from home, that is hard to prove, and I'm not even sure if I could readily prove that at home.
So, I paid 100 Euro for an evaluative interview (by a Brit - how can he evaluate my English?!) to determine that I am, indeed, a native speaker. I did get a bit of a rebate; the tester bought my Chinese dinner.
That's my story, but what I wanted to mention is that I thought I saw some rule during my research that the tester has to be licensed by the same country that issued your license/certificate. Is that true?
Terry
So, I went through a similiar, sometimes humorous experience as above as I worked to get German recognition of my FAA license. I had to have a minimum of Level 4, of course. As an American I thought it was funny that I would have to prove I speak English, but I can speak German-as-a-foreign-language on the radio without "proving" I speak German!
One of my club's members is an approved tester for people who have existing/grandfathered Level 4 proficiency, but cannot do initial tests or anything higher than Level 4. He eventually learned there are now provisions to prove one is a native speaker and get Level 6 that way. If I had been able to documentat that I had spent the first ten years of my life in a country where English is an official language, I would not have needed a test. Three thousand miles from home, that is hard to prove, and I'm not even sure if I could readily prove that at home.
So, I paid 100 Euro for an evaluative interview (by a Brit - how can he evaluate my English?!) to determine that I am, indeed, a native speaker. I did get a bit of a rebate; the tester bought my Chinese dinner.
That's my story, but what I wanted to mention is that I thought I saw some rule during my research that the tester has to be licensed by the same country that issued your license/certificate. Is that true?
Terry
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
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LTCTerry the UK CAA license doesn't have a expiry date on it either. And it doesn't matter if we have a UK passport we are in the same boat.
Our CAA say its policy not to put it on. When questioned why they haven't bothered they say that its only an ICAO recommendation. And its policy not to.
I believe though that its written into EASA that the level and expiry has to be included.
Our CAA say its policy not to put it on. When questioned why they haven't bothered they say that its only an ICAO recommendation. And its policy not to.
I believe though that its written into EASA that the level and expiry has to be included.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: I wouldn't know.
The LBA accepted my US PPL as proof of language proficiency, however level 4 only and i had to renew as if i got that level 4 on the first day of the language proficiency rules. Since then my company build up their own lLTO and we are checked during our simulator events. The german JAA ATPL received two extra lines on the back for the language "checker" to extend the duration of the level 4/5 proficiency.
By the way, LPLUS is indeed not certified in germany as an LTO, however it is the sole language testing provider in austria and certified in other european states with its online system.
By the way, LPLUS is indeed not certified in germany as an LTO, however it is the sole language testing provider in austria and certified in other european states with its online system.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 680
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From: Who cares? ;-)
LTCTerry, just because someone has an American (or British) passport doesn't necessarily mean they can speak English (not talking about accents or dialects here 
). A friend of mine's daughter was born in the USA so she was automatically a citizen, but she never lived there since and now has German AND American citizenship without being able to speak English! It happens. Just look at various others that get citizenship by birth with no language test required.
). A friend of mine's daughter was born in the USA so she was automatically a citizen, but she never lived there since and now has German AND American citizenship without being able to speak English! It happens. Just look at various others that get citizenship by birth with no language test required.
