IMC/IR a requirement for Instructing (realisitcally)?

[oldspool]

Hello,

I know that IMC/IR is not a requirement to be issued with an Instructor Rating (only 10 hours instrument, which one would get if doing a CPL) but do most Flying Instructors have an IMC/IR?

I ask because I am considering doing a CPL followed by a FI-R this autumn (the end goal being part-time instructing) but am unsure as to whether it would be realistic to expect to get a job without an IMC or IR?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

P.S. Random question but; how long (duration) is the FI-R skills test (re budget for a/c hire for test)

[Mickey Kaye]

"P.S. Random question but; how long (duration) is the FI-R skills test (re budget for a/c hire for test)"

1.6 +/-

I know one person who doesn't have an IR/IMC and he doesn't struggle for work.
A couple of places I worked at insisted that you held a current IMC/IR. One of them basically used it to rip some extra cash out of you every year or so. The other place insisted on it (probably because they have very high standards) but they renewed it for you at a significantly reduced rate.

However having a current IMC is handy it gives you all the privileges you need. It allows you to earn money on days that without it you would not. eg vfr on top.
It also gives you a few more options if the wx takes a turn for the worst.

Its handy and cheap and makes me money on days when other wise I would not

[RTN11]

I've been instructing for well over 1000 hours without any IMC or IR. If you fly from an airfield without an instrument approach, you'll still be grounded on the non VMC days anyway.

In terms of cost of the FI test, there's a lot of stuff on the ground. The actual flight is probably shorter than an initial PPL test as there's no navigation section, about an hour and a half as I remember. Just be prepared to spend all day being grilled indepth and handing over a large amount of cash to the examiner.

[Cows getting bigger]

At PPL level, I think the ability to teach is more important than the ability to nail an NDB approach. That said, an IMC is sometimes quite useful to get on top.

[RTN11]

A fair bit of talk about climbing up to vmc on top to teach a lesson. You can really only teach ex 4-9 in these conditions, and these exercises only account for about 20% of an instructors job, if that. Try teaching circuits or vfr navigation in imc, these are the bread and butter of any ppl instructor.

[Cows getting bigger]

RTN, care to explain how you teach Ex 5 when VFR on top?

[mrmum]

An IMCr or IR can be useful on occasion, but it's certainly not essential. It's probably not worth it on a purely financial basis, as I haven't found it opens up that much extra flying time compared to the cost of the rating. How many days a year do we get the kind of cloud conditions that allow the "climb and operate VMC above an overcast" scenario? Having said that, the look on a student's face the first time they pop out of the top of cloud into the sunshine is one of those priceless moments, as is coming out of the bottom to a windscreen full of runway lights It is certainly a more realistic proposition if you operate from, or very near to an airfield with IAP's.
I would employ a FI without an instrument qualification, but I'd rather they did, however there are many more important things to consider in a potential applicant.

You can really only teach ex 4-9 in these conditions

How about ex. 10, 11, 15, 18C and 19?

[RTN11]

I accept you can teach 15 and 19 above, or even in cloud. I wouldn't spend a whole lesson VMC on top doing 18C, it's better if they can see the ground to relate the position fixes to the real world. I don't know anyone who would stall an aircaft, or worse spin one on top of a full cloud cover. That's just asking for trouble.

[Cows getting bigger]

I would happily stall an aircraft above 'full cloud cover'.

[RTN11]

So you've climbed through maybe 1000' of cloud to VMC on top. Do you then climb another 3000' to make sure you can recover from any spin before you enter cloud?

What does this teach the student about the HASELL check and taking every care not to do stall exercises above built up areas?

I regularly teach in tomahawks, an aircraft which will very readily spin if a stall recovery is mishandled. I certainly wouldn't want to add to that the risk of entering cloud while still spinning.

[Cows getting bigger]

I'm not sure the Irish Sea could be classed as a built up area.

[Whopity]

I ask because I am considering doing a CPL followed by a FI-R this autumn

Then by the time you are eligible to do the IRI course there will be no training for an IMC rating and under EASA you will need 200 hours flight time under IFR before you can begin the course. I think the question answers itself! Come the revolution, there will be no new instructors qualified to teach instrument flying, so one wonders how the commercial schools will manage.

[BillieBob]

Bear in mind also that you will not be able to fly under IFR, even in VMC, unless you hold a 'valid instrument rating' - unless there is action taken before 1 April 2012, an IMC rating will not allow you to fly under IFR in an EASA aeroplane after that date. At present, no transitional arrangements have been announced for this case, although the UK does have the right to an opt-out from any Annex of the Aircrew (licensing) Regulation until 1 April 2013 if it chooses to take it.