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ICAO to JAR?

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Old 15th Jul 2011, 19:41
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ICAO to JAR?

What is the procedure to convert from a ICAO CPL to a JAR CPL?

Thanks for the help
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Old 15th Jul 2011, 21:58
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LASORS: LASORS 2010 | Publications | CAA

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Old 16th Jul 2011, 08:11
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In a nutshell. The CPL/IR or ATPL exams (depending on the direction you want to go), prescribed training and flight tests for CPL and IR.

The reference you are looking for is in JAR FCL1 under licence conversion. If you look in the appendix it will give you the experience credits as well.

If you are looking to do it in the UK the LASORS is a handy guide but is full of errors and is not the actual regulation (just our CAA interpretation)which is currently JAR FCL and will be EASA Part FCL from April next year.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 16:43
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I'm contemplating of doing a FIC in the US, but should I decide for an FAA course, how's the procedure of converting it into a JAA? Was studying LASORS and as far as I could understand, converting would only consist of a check ride, could this be true?!
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 16:47
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No, to convert an FAA CFI to a JAA you will get a reduction of the theoretical course from 125 hours down to 30 and the flying hours from 30 down to 15, then do the test.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 18:16
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No, to convert an FAA CFI to a JAA you will get a reduction of the theoretical course from 125 hours down to 30 and the flying hours from 30 down to 15, then do the test
...And also for the "theoretical knowledge" aspect, pass either the JAA CPL, or JAA ATPL written exams.

As already pointed out by Bose-X above, which I only just noticed
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 18:52
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And will this route still exist under EASA? Its a UK interpretation taken from App1 to JAR-FCL 1.300!
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 20:33
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And will this route still exist under EASA?
Apparently it will, Article 7 of the Cover Regulation states:

"Applicants for Part–FCL licences and associated ratings or certificates already holding at least an equivalent licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a third country shall meet all the requirements of Part–FCL, except that the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced.

The credit given to the applicant shall be determined by the competent authority of the Member State to which the pilot applies on the basis of a recommendation from an approved training organisation."

In fact, the credits could be even greater than they are under JAR-FCL if an ATO so recommends and the Authority agrees.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 20:35
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ICAO to JAR?
You really have to be more accurate: JAR IS ICAO.
Only pilots have such a vocabulary problem. It is ridiculous, something has to be done.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 20:45
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Basically the whole world is ICAO.

Afghanistan / Afghanistan / Afganistán / Афганистан
Albania / Albanie / Albania / Албания
Algeria / Algérie / Argelia / Алжир
Andorra / Andorre / Andorra / Андорра
Angola / Angola / Angola / Ангола
Antigua and Barbuda / Antigua-et-Barbuda / Antigua y Barbuda / Антигуа и Барбуда
Argentina / Argentine / Argentina / Аргентина
Armenia / Arménie / Armenia / Армения
Australia / Australie / Australia / Австралия
Austria / Autriche / Austria / Австрия
Azerbaijan / Azerbaïdjan / Azerbaiyán / Азербайджан

Bahamas / Bahamas / Bahamas / Багамские Острова
Bahrain / Bahreïn / Bahrein / Бахрейн
Bangladesh / Bangladesh / Bangladesh / Бангладеш
Barbados / Barbade / Barbados / Барбадос
Belarus / Bélarus / Belarús / Беларусь
Belgium / Belgique / Bélgica / Бельгия
Belize / Belize / Belice / Белиз
Benin / Bénin / Benin / Бенин
Bhutan / Bhoutan / Bhután / Бутан
Bolivia / Bolivie / Bolivia / Боливия
Bosnia and Herzegovina / Bosnie-Herzégovine / Bosnia y Herzegovina / Босния и Герцеговина
Botswana / Botswana / Botswana / Ботсвана
Brazil / Brésil / Brasil / Бразилия
Brunei Darussalam / Brunéi Darussalam / Brunei Darussalam / Бруней-Даруссалам
Bulgaria / Bulgarie / Bulgaria / Болгария
Burkina Faso / Burkina Faso / Burkina Faso / Буркина-Фасо
Burundi / Burundi / Burundi / Бурунди

Cambodia / Cambodge / Camboya / Камбоджа
Cameroon / Cameroun / Camerún / Камерун
Canada / Canada / Canadá / Канада
Cape Verde / Cap-Vert / Cabo Verde / Кабо-Верде
Central African Republic / République centrafricaine / República Centroafricana / Центральноафриканская Республика
Chad / Tchad / Chad / Чад
Chile / Chili / Chile / Чили
China / Chine / China / Китай
Colombia / Colombie / Colombia / Колумбия
Comoros / Comores / Comoras / Коморские Острова
Congo / Congo / Congo / Конго
Cook Islands / Îles Cook / Islas Cook / Острова Кука
Costa Rica / Costa Rica / Costa Rica / Коста-Рика
Côte d’Ivoire / Côte d’Ivoire / Côte d’Ivoire / Кот-д’Ивуар
Croatia / Croatie / Croacia / Хорватия
Cuba / Cuba / Cuba / Куба
Cyprus / Chypre / Chipre / Кипр
Czech Republic / République tchèque / República Checa / Чешская Республика

Democratic People’s Republic of Korea / République populaire démocratique de Corée / República Popular Democrática de Corea / Корейская Народно-Демократическая Республика
Democratic Republic of the Congo / République démocratique du Congo / República Democrática del Congo / Демократическая Республика Конго
Denmark / Danemark / Dinamarca / Дания
Djibouti / Djibouti / Djibouti / Джибути
Dominican Republic / République dominicaine / República Dominicana / Доминиканская Республика

Ecuador / Équateur / Ecuador / Эквадор
Egypt / Égypte / Egipto / Египет
El Salvador / El Salvador / El Salvador / Сальвадор
Equatorial Guinea / Guinée équatoriale / Guinea Ecuatorial / Экваториальная Гвинея
Eritrea / Érythrée / Eritrea / Эритрея
Estonia / Estonie / Estonia / Эстония
Ethiopia / Éthiopie / Etiopía / Эфиопия

Fiji / Fidji / Fiji / Фиджи
Finland / Finlande / Finlandia / Финляндия
France / France / Francia / Франция

Gabon / Gabon / Gabón / Габон
Gambia / Gambie / Gambia / Гамбия
Georgia / Géorgie / Georgia / Грузия
Germany / Allemagne / Alemania / Германия
Ghana / Ghana / Ghana / Гана
Greece / Grèce / Grecia / Греция
Grenada / Grenade / Granada / Гренада
Guatemala / Guatemala / Guatemala / Гватемала
Guinea / Guinée / Guinea / Гвинея
Guinea-Bissau / Guinée-Bissau / Guinea-Bissau / Гвинея-Бисау
Guyana / Guyana / Guyana / Гайана

Haiti / Haïti / Haití / Гаити
Honduras / Honduras / Honduras / Гондурас
Hungary / Hongrie / Hungría / Венгрия

Iceland / Islande / Islandia / Исландия
India / Inde / India / Индия
Indonesia / Indonésie / Indonesia / Индонезия
Iran (Islamic Republic of) / Iran (République islamique d’) / Irán (República Islámica del) / Иран (Исламская Республика)
Iraq / Iraq / Iraq / Ирак
Ireland / Irlande / Irlanda / Ирландия
Israel / Israël / Israel / Израиль
Italy / Italie / Italia / Италия

Jamaica / Jamaïque / Jamaica / Ямайка
Japan / Japon / Japón / Япония
Jordan / Jordanie / Jordania / Иордания

Kazakhstan / Kazakhstan / Kazajstán / Казахстан
Kenya / Kenya / Kenya / Кения
Kiribati / Kiribati / Kiribati / Кирибати
Kuwait / Koweït / Kuwait / Кувейт
Kyrgyzstan / Kirghizistan / Kirguistán / Кыргызстан

Lao People’s Democratic Republic / République démocratique populaire lao / República Democrática Popular Lao / Лаосская Народно-Демократическая Республика
Latvia / Lettonie / Letonia / Латвия
Lebanon / Liban / Líbano / Ливан
Lesotho / Lesotho / Lesotho / Лесото
Liberia / Libéria / Liberia / Либерия
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya / Jamahiriya arabe libyenne / Jamahiriya Árabe Libia / Ливийская Арабская Джамахирия
Lithuania / Lituanie / Lituania / Литва
Luxembourg / Luxembourg / Luxemburgo / Люксембург

Madagascar / Madagascar / Madagascar / Мадагаскар
Malawi / Malawi / Malawi / Малави
Malaysia / Malaisie / Malasia / Малайзия
Maldives / Maldives / Maldivas / Мальдивы
Mali / Mali / Malí / Мали
Malta / Malte / Malta / Мальта
Marshall Islands / Îles Marshall / Islas Marshall / Маршалловы Острова
Mauritania / Mauritanie / Mauritania / Мавритания
Mauritius / Maurice / Mauricio / Маврикий
Mexico / Mexique / México / Мексика
Micronesia (Federated States of) / Micronésie (États fédérés de) / Micronesia (Estados Federados de) / Микронезия (Федеративные Штаты)
Monaco / Monaco / Mónaco / Монако
Mongolia / Mongolie / Mongolia / Монголия
Morocco / Maroc / Marruecos / Марокко
Mozambique / Mozambique / Mozambique / Мозамбик
Myanmar / Myanmar / Myanmar / Мьянма

Namibia / Namibie / Namibia / Намибия
Nauru / Nauru / Nauru / Науру
Nepal / Népal / Nepal / Непал
Netherlands / Pays-Bas / Países Bajos / Нидерланды
New Zealand / Nouvelle-Zélande / Nueva Zelandia / Новая Зеландия
Nicaragua / Nicaragua / Nicaragua / Никарагуа
Niger / Niger / Níger / Нигер
Nigeria / Nigéria / Nigeria / Нигерия
Norway / Norvège / Noruega / Норвегия

Oman / Oman / Omán / Оман

Pakistan / Pakistan / Pakistán / Пакистан
Palau / Palaos / Palau / Палау
Panama / Panama / Panamá / Панама
Papua New Guinea / Papouasie-Nouvelle-Guinée / Papua Nueva Guinea / Папуа-Новая Гвинея
Paraguay / Paraguay / Paraguay / Парагвай
Peru / Pérou / Perú / Перу
Philippines / Philippines / Filipinas / Филиппины
Poland / Pologne / Polonia / Польша
Portugal / Portugal / Portugal / Португалия

Qatar / Qatar / Qatar / Катар

Republic of Korea / République de Corée / República de Corea / Республика Корея
Republic of Moldova / République de Moldova / República de Moldova / Республика Молдова
Romania / Roumanie / Rumania / Румыния
Russian Federation / Fédération de Russie / Federación de Rusia / Российская Федерация
Rwanda / Rwanda / Rwanda / Руанда

Saint Kitts and Nevis / Saint-Kitts-et-Nevis / Saint Kitts y Nevis / Сент-Китс и Невис
Saint Lucia / Sainte-Lucie / Santa Lucía / Сент-Люсия
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines / Saint-Vincent-et-les Grenadines / San Vicente y las Granadinas / Сент-Винсент и Гренадины
Samoa / Samoa / Samoa / Самоа
San Marino / Saint-Marin / San Marino / Сан-Марино
Sao Tome and Principe / Sao Tomé-et-Principe / Santo Tomé y Príncipe / Сан-Томе и Принсипи
Saudi Arabia / Arabie saoudite / Arabia Saudita / Саудовская Аравия
Senegal / Sénégal / Senegal / Сенегал
Serbia and Montenegro / Serbie-Monténégro / Serbia y Montenegro / Сербия и Черногория
Seychelles / Seychelles / Seychelles / Сейшельские Острова
Sierra Leone / Sierra Leone / Sierra Leona / Сьерра-Леоне
Singapore / Singapour / Singapur / Сингапур
Slovakia / Slovaquie / Eslovaquia / Словакия
Slovenia / Slovénie / Eslovenia / Словения
Solomon Islands / Îles Salomon / Islas Salomón / Соломоновы Острова
Somalia / Somalie / Somalia / Сомали
South Africa / Afrique du Sud / Sudáfrica / Южная Африка
Spain / Espagne / España / Испания
Sri Lanka / Sri Lanka / Sri Lanka / Шри-Ланка
Sudan / Soudan / Sudán / Судан
Suriname / Suriname / Suriname / Суринам
Swaziland / Swaziland / Swazilandia / Свазиленд
Sweden / Suède / Suecia / Швеция
Switzerland / Suisse / Suiza / Швейцария
Syrian Arab Republic / République arabe syrienne / República Árabe Siria / Сирийская Арабская Республика

Tajikistan / Tadjikistan / Tayikistán / Таджикистан
Thailand / Thaïlande / Tailandia / Таиланд
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia / L’ex-République yougoslave de Macédoine / La ex República Yugoslava de Macedonia / Бывшая югославская Республика Македония
Togo / Togo / Togo / Того
Tonga / Tonga / Tonga / Тонга
Trinidad and Tobago / Trinité-et-Tobago / Trinidad y Tabago / Тринидад и Тобаго
Tunisia / Tunisie / Túnez / Тунис
Turkey / Turquie / Turquía / Турция
Turkmenistan / Turkménistan / Turkmenistán / Туркменистан

Uganda / Ouganda / Uganda / Уганда
Ukraine / Ukraine / Ucrania / Украина
United Arab Emirates / Émirats arabes unis / Emiratos Árabes Unidos / Объединенные Арабские Эмираты
United Kingdom / Royaume-Uni / Reino Unido / Соединенное Королевство
United Republic of Tanzania / République-Unie de Tanzanie / República Unida de Tanzanía / Объединенная Республика Танзания
United States / États-Unis / Estados Unidos / Соединенные Штаты Америки
Uruguay / Uruguay / Uruguay / Уругвай
Uzbekistan / Ouzbékistan / Uzbekistán / Узбекистан

Vanuatu / Vanuatu / Vanuatu / Вануату
Venezuela / Venezuela / Venezuela / Венесуэла
Viet Nam / Viet Nam / Viet Nam / Вьетнам

Yemen / Yémen / Yemen / Йемен

Zambia / Zambie / Zambia / Замбия
Zimbabwe / Zimbabwe / Zimbabwe / Зимбабве

NOTE.— This is the official list of short names of ICAO Contracting States, for use in all general documentation and publications. Where full names of States are required, the official listing of States in the United Nations Terminology Bulletin is to be used.









-------------------------------------------



Only Dominica, Liechtenstein, Niue, Tuvalu, Vatican City and the states with limited recognition are not ICAO, so any pilot licence you have heard about is ICAO.
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Old 19th Jul 2011, 06:38
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so any pilot licence you have heard about is ICAO.
Not entirely true, a number of ICAO States have non-ICAO licences e.g. the UK NPPL, UK PPL Microlight and the proposed EASA LAPLs!
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 18:12
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Sorry about that, I should rephrase: basically any CPL (that's what we are talking about here right?) licence you have heard about is ICAO.

So if you want to convert a FAA (or transport Canada's?) CPL licence into a JAA one, just say so. ALL ARE ICAO.



Jet? No turbofan.
Line training? No pay to work.
Frozen ATPL? No CPL.
ICAO CPL? It means absolutely nothing, as there is no non-ICAO CPL on earth. Maybe an exception somewhere somebody will be proud to find, but not even sure.
Vocabulary has to be accurate in our profession, and it's clearly not.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 08:17
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You gotta love KAG's posts.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 10:06
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as there is no non-ICAO CPL on earth
UK (Restricted) BCPL if you want to be accurate!
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Whopity
UK (Restricted) BCPL if you want to be accurate!
Not the UK, but I seem to recall a microlight CPL somewhere or other. I doubt that is ICAO compliant.

G
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 15:03
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UK (Restricted) BCPL if you want to be accurate!
Great: you found the exception I was talking about!

But honestly, even if I am not 100% sure because I don't want to double check, I think you are confused. I think you mean the UK (restricted) BCPL is not EASA (JAA?), but is definitely ICAO (if it is UK, it is automatically ICAO, UK being, of course, a ICAO member).
That's only my feeling, I didn't check and I have no references about this UK Restricted BCPL.

Cheers.



Not the UK, but I seem to recall a microlight CPL somewhere or other. I doubt that is ICAO compliant.
Micro-light operations are not regulated by ICAO.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 16:32
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I think you are confused.
The UK BCPL(Restricted) has the status of an ICAO PPL but permits the holder, who has not passed any CPL examinations, to be remunerated whilst working solely within a club for the purpose of giving flying instruction to members, or to conduct parachute dropping within a club. The BCPL(R) does not permit any other activities outside of a club and is not ICAO compliant, hence the JAA and EASA do not recognise it.

It was a freebie issued to aeroplane PPL Instructors to get around a change in the law when it became illegal to be remunerated as a PPL holder.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 16:41
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Just because a country is a member state of ICAO does not mean that all of its licences are ICAO-compliant (i.e. issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1). Apart from the obvious examples (UK NPPL, French Brevet de Base, US Recreational Pilot Certificate, EASA LAPL), the Australian ATPL(H) is not issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1. However, as Australia has filed a formal difference, everyone else seems to accept it. By the same token, a licence issued by a non-ICAO state might well be ICAO compliant.
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Old 21st Jul 2011, 17:14
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Ok Whopity, so you did find the CPL exception!
Congratulations!
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Old 22nd Jul 2011, 07:19
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Apparently it will, Article 7 of the Cover Regulation states:

"Applicants for Part–FCL licences and associated ratings or certificates already holding at least an equivalent licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a third country shall meet all the requirements of Part–FCL, except that the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced.

The credit given to the applicant shall be determined by the competent authority of the Member State to which the pilot applies on the basis of a recommendation from an approved training organisation."

In fact, the credits could be even greater than they are under JAR-FCL if an ATO so recommends and the Authority agrees.
How would that sit in the context of converting an FAA CPL/IR?

EASA appears to offer no way out of the 14 exams.

Surely converting just a CPL is a chocolate teapot.

If this is the full story, all it will take is just one EU country to offer a lenient acceptance and the whole conversion business will just pile in there. 5000 euros? Cheap at twice the price, Sir! Ryanair flies pretty cheaply to some places in the Balkans

I can't wait.
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