Skills before first solo

[RTN11]

With so many threads about with people boasting about going solo in 6 hours, or even less, I was just wondering what does everyone demand of their students before sending them off?

I personally look for the shape to be spot on, height +/- 100', good safe landings, and able to recover from a balloon, or misjudged landing.

I also like them to be comfortable with landing flapless, and at least be able to demonstrate a glide approach, aswell as dealing with any emergencies both on the ground and in flight, including total instrument failure and fire.

I don't really see how any of this can be properly taught in 6, or even 8 hours. After 6 hours, my students haven't even entered the circuit, and my average for solo seems to be between 13 and 18 hours.

I know some schools require you to pass air law before solo. Mine does not, but I do like students to take this first, just as an incentive, otherwise it never seems to get taken.

[Cows getting bigger]

Consistent safe landings - taken for granted.
EFATO
Go-arounds
Ground emergencies.

I don't insist on perfect glides and, ordinarily, don't worry about flapless (aircraft type is an important consideration here).

Instrument failure? Most of my students don't even know what an instrument is when they are at the cct stage.

Personally, I have seen students bash the cct for too long as they have tried to master a particular skill (I know of an instructor who insists on short/soft fields). Students get ground-down by endless circuits and the associated cost in time/money. In many respects it is a bit of a judgement call and individual risk assessment. Ordinarily, I would expect the 'average' student who flies two or three times a month to solo at about 12-15 hours.

[Whopity]

I also like them to be comfortable with landing flapless, and at least be able to demonstrate a glide approach,

A pre solo student should not be confused by teaching them different types of approach. It is a requirement that they have seen a demonstration flapless approach and a demonstration glide approach just in case they experience a problem on their first solo but; it is not normal for a student to practice such approaches until they have mastered a normal approach and landing and have completed Ex 14.

[DFC]

It is a requirement that they have seen a demonstration flapless approach and a demonstration glide approach just in case they experience a problem on their first solo but; it is not normal for a student to practice such approaches until they have mastered a normal approach and landing and have completed Ex 14.

They must be able to complete a glide approach safely to a landing and be able to demonstrate some idea of where the aircraft is going to land (even if it is half way along the runway). If they can't do that then don't bother teaching the EFATO because what do they do after they remember to lower the nose? The normal sequence of EFATO training is to do the EFATO and check initial response and then after climbing away and flying round the circuit, complete the glide approach to a landing which is effectively the missing bit of the EFATO. If there is a long runway, a go arround at 50ft (threshold) followed by an EFATO with plenty of runway ahead enables EFATO and glide practice to a landing.

Flapless approach is designed to cope with flap failure. Personally, I start with flapless (type specific) since this requires less roundout and then progres through more and more flap until they are landing with fulll flap.

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To answer the original question, skill wise it comes down to consistent safety. The person going solo must be willing to accept the responsibility of being pilot in command and be 100% responsible for the outcome of the flight once properly briefed and released.

The hours debate is a total red herring. A large quiet aerodrome in uncontrolled airspace will result in people going solo with a small amount of hours in the logbook. The same student with the same instructor in the same aircraft at an airfield with noise restrictions affecting the circuit and ATC delays for leaving and entering the control zonewill have more logbook time when they go solo.

In both of the above cases the student will have received the same appropriate training towards first solo and progressed at the same rate the difference being made up with logbook time accrued while holding on the ground as well as transiting to and orbiting at the zone boundary.

When I review training records and logbooks I do not often see vast differences in training to solo (when one makes appropriate allowances). I do however, come across a few cases of students who suffer the "mandatory" 1.0 flight lesson. By that I mean every lesson from 3 through 4A, 4B, 6A, 6B, 7&8 (several), 9 (several), 10A, 10B, 11 lasts exactly 1 hour. Not 55 minutes and not 1 hour and 5 minutes. These students often demonstrate poor levels of skill / knowledge compared to the expected level for the hours flown because the objective has drifted from providing a flight lesson to flying for 1 hour.

Pilot A goes solo at 10 hours. Pilot B goes solo at 25 hours. They probably both take 60 hours to get their licence.

[RTN11]

I know of one instructor who takes his students on a diversion leg to the nearest airfield, so they can handle this in the event the runway is blocked when they are solo.

Is this a consideration for anyone else, or is he going way too indepth at this stage? I currently fly from a small airfield where a runway blockage is very unlikely, but from a large commercial airfield, it could easily happen.

[chopd95]

First Solo

First solo is but a (great) step on the way to the licence to fly?

The key words are safe and consistent.

Can be done in 8 (or so ) hrs with a student who is capable and able to fly day on day and learn with each flight ( aka mil flight training ),or much longer if the chap can only get to the field on ocassional weekends and has to re-learn part of the last lesson every time?

for the instructor it should never be a leap of faith?!

My first solo landing in a Chippie at Barkston probably was a leap of fath!
But though not gracefull it was safe - and the first solo party was one of those where sawdust on the floor of a pub was a saving grace!

[DFC]

Is this a consideration for anyone else, or is he going way too indepth at this stage?

The simple answer is yes thay are adding unnecessary complication to the student's situation which is not backed up by normal operational policy -

Looking at the diversion posibility;

Diverting away from an aerodrome (especially to another single runway aerodrome) simply does not automatically solve the problem.

Does this instructor plan on having this "nearby aerodrome" stop all operations so that the diversion will not end up in the same situation there (but with less fuel and less options)?

Look at how we operate. We carry fuel to fly to destination, divert to alternate and after all that hold for 45 minutes. If the destination x wind is out of limits and we divert we arrive at an alternate with minimum 45 minutes fuel in the tank (hopefully some more). If that alternate's runway is blocked by an accident as we turn final, then what?

The student on first solo is effectively at their alternate (no alternate is required) and they will have a lot more than final reserve fuel (I hope).

As part of their risk assessment the training organisation will have considered various scenarios and the first (or subsequent) solo / blocked runway will be one and the organisation should have a plan to mitigate the risks in such a situation. It will be both organisation and aerodrome specific and while the staff will be aware, there is no requirement to make the student aware of the actions which will be very dependent on the situation.

I wonder does this instructor refuse to authorise first solos after a time when the student can complete 2 or 3 circuits, hold for 15 to 20 minutes, divert and hold for 45 minutes and still land well before either the alternate closes or the light fades? In otherwords - no first solo within 2 hours or so of sunset?

These instructors are usually the same day VFR people that insist on having an alternate and 45 minutes final reserve but arrive overhead the base aerodrome on the last flight 10 minutes before night.

[Whopity]

They must be able to complete a glide approach safely to a landing

This has certainly never been the case in any school that I have ever taught in, neither have I seen this taught on an FI Course. Perhaps the most regulated instruction to solo level is the RAF Flying Scholarship which clearly states that only Normal Circuits are taught pre-solo and that in Sortie 8, Demo Glide and Flapless landings are flown by the instructor. Teaching a student two different methods of landing prior to solo is not a good idea.

[DFC]

Teaching a student two different methods of landing prior to solo is not a good idea.

If they have an engine failure just what method do you think they will have to use?

You are not teaching how to land - you are teaching how to cope with an engine failure.

Are you seriously suggesting that you are happy to send a person solo without the ability to cope with an engine failure?

Is the last 50ft of a glide from EFATO the time tfor a first solo student o have a go with the first landing from a glide? If you have never tried a glide how will you cope with the increased rate of descent and more positive roundout?

Duty of Care?

Teaching glides may add an hour or so to the logbook but is that such a big problem? Seems to me that in some cases the rush to solo is sucking in the instructors and we have them competing over who sent someone solo in the least hours and this will continue until a fatality and the enevitable court case.

[dashman20]

Reasonably accurate speed/height and power control-shows an understanding of what they are trying to achieve.
Consistent and safe landings with timely judgement when to throw one away.
Safe handling of go arounds with different flap settings.
Ability to cope with an EFATO and at all points around the circuit-including final approach.
Slow speed handling to a good degree,with a good understanding of why to avoid it at this stage of flying.
Some concept of aircraft performance.
Reasonable concept of crosswind landings.
Ability to find and land at local diversion airfield.
Medical
Air law passed-nice but depends on student and timing for first solo,etc.
Some feeling of common sense exhibited!

Recently stopped teaching,but still have an interest in it.

[chopd95]

IIRC both mil annd civ look for consistent safe circuits and landings, EFATO or anywhere in circuit of course, so that means glide landings?
Confess I was never taught anything other, don't recall being askd to do all other stuff - Pipr colt, Chipmunk, JP, Varsity, Herc - PA28, microlights etc....