Landing Lights?
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I like to teach student pilots the reason behind doing something; I struggle to grasp the on/off routine at 300ft.
Personally, I would much prefer the pilot to make a decision based on all the information presented to him/her. For example: what is the visibility like? Am I flying out of sun? What does the POH say? What are the risks - ie what airspace am I in?
One final thought - in the big picture landing lights aren't exactly high on my priority list of things to do/teach at the PPL stage.
Personally, I would much prefer the pilot to make a decision based on all the information presented to him/her. For example: what is the visibility like? Am I flying out of sun? What does the POH say? What are the risks - ie what airspace am I in?
One final thought - in the big picture landing lights aren't exactly high on my priority list of things to do/teach at the PPL stage.
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Fireflybob, when I was last involved with RAF teaching (2003) it was and I doubt it will have changed., conspicuity being the overriding consideration. Also no mucking about with switches etc. on the runway, so all checks done while stationary, brakes on, before takeoff or clear of the runway after landing. Less scope for errors and being head-down while moving on the ground.
Ryan5252, apologies, I stand corrected then, although I am talking here about being dazzled i.e. vision adversely affected, not just noticing a flash in my peripheral vision. I have been dazzled by airliner taxi/ landing lights at night, but never by light aircraft in daylight. But then I never need to wear sunglasses either so you are probably right, it's variable.
Ryan5252, apologies, I stand corrected then, although I am talking here about being dazzled i.e. vision adversely affected, not just noticing a flash in my peripheral vision. I have been dazzled by airliner taxi/ landing lights at night, but never by light aircraft in daylight. But then I never need to wear sunglasses either so you are probably right, it's variable.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Landing light
I follow ATPL checks at the threshold before entering the runway. Whether it is right or wrong is subject to debate, but I maintain a 100% pass rate with all of my students at PPL.
It is an easy 'ish' acronym to follow and is as follows (you do not want a checklist to refer to at a critical time ie entering a runway):
A-Approach clear
T-Transponder set to ALT
P-Pitot heat to on if external temp is 10deg or less
L-Landing light on if visibility is less than 10k
Several schools teach this as well as I....
Re the landing light off...poor practice 300' in my opinion, when you should be looking out etc....wait to 1000' above airfield, then pumps (PA28) and landing light off, when leaving the circuit. If remaining in the circuit, leave everything on and keep it simple!
Regards
Leading Edge!
It is an easy 'ish' acronym to follow and is as follows (you do not want a checklist to refer to at a critical time ie entering a runway):
A-Approach clear
T-Transponder set to ALT
P-Pitot heat to on if external temp is 10deg or less
L-Landing light on if visibility is less than 10k
Several schools teach this as well as I....
Re the landing light off...poor practice 300' in my opinion, when you should be looking out etc....wait to 1000' above airfield, then pumps (PA28) and landing light off, when leaving the circuit. If remaining in the circuit, leave everything on and keep it simple!
Regards
Leading Edge!
Join Date: Sep 2007
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I teach lights ON
Entering the runway
in the CCT
CLIMBING
APPROACHING AIRFIELD
LOW VIZ / HAZE
TRAFFIC CALLED AHEAD (to improve the other guys chances of spotting
me)
No sparing of bulbs
Entering the runway
in the CCT
CLIMBING
APPROACHING AIRFIELD
LOW VIZ / HAZE
TRAFFIC CALLED AHEAD (to improve the other guys chances of spotting
me)
No sparing of bulbs
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Certain places may have extra rules governing the use of landing lights.
From the AIP for The Netherlands:
All aircraft performing VFR flights in the Eelde CTR must show their landing lights.
All aircraft performing VFR flights in the Schiphol CTR must show their landing lights.
Note: in the Rotterdam CTR aircraft do not have to show their landing lights.
So, it would be prudent for an instructor to teach the pupil the common sense recommendations wrt seeing, being seen and not blinding people, as well as officul rules -- and that the official rules may vary per aerodrome.
From the AIP for The Netherlands:
All aircraft performing VFR flights in the Eelde CTR must show their landing lights.
All aircraft performing VFR flights in the Schiphol CTR must show their landing lights.
Note: in the Rotterdam CTR aircraft do not have to show their landing lights.
So, it would be prudent for an instructor to teach the pupil the common sense recommendations wrt seeing, being seen and not blinding people, as well as officul rules -- and that the official rules may vary per aerodrome.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The FAA advice to use landing lights below 10,000 ft, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in reduced visibility, or where flocks of birds may be expected, seems sensible and is my practice.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I used to be in the "landing lights on in the circuit" camp but now only use them in hazy conditions or at night. In Canada you are not required to even have a functioning landing at night unless you are carrying a pax. 
Anti colision and nav lights are required though.
Anti colision and nav lights are required though.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I'm a firm believer in using what is available to draw attention to the aeroplane I am flying, and landing lights are one of them. Always used them in the circuit and elsewhere when conditions were marginal, and in Hong Kong where I used to instruct such conditions were fairly common.
Hmmmm
I fly a bright yellow aircraft which doesn't have landing lights, largely because it is a day VFR aircraft. I do have and use tricolour lights. Do you seriously think I am invisible? I teach on microlights, which don't have landing lights either. I do teach lookout, lookout, and more lookout. The less time spent with the head inside fiddling with switches means the more time is available for looking outside. IHMO this debate is pretty pointless. If you have got a means of being more obvious, use it, especially if you can avoid dazzling the rest of the world. I don't think turning lights on and off every five minutes contributes anything to flight safety. I do think using your eyes and manouvering to clear your blind spots is useful. Don't expect everyone else to see you, try to see everyone else. Now if we all do that, maybe it will help!
I fly a bright yellow aircraft which doesn't have landing lights, largely because it is a day VFR aircraft. I do have and use tricolour lights. Do you seriously think I am invisible? I teach on microlights, which don't have landing lights either. I do teach lookout, lookout, and more lookout. The less time spent with the head inside fiddling with switches means the more time is available for looking outside. IHMO this debate is pretty pointless. If you have got a means of being more obvious, use it, especially if you can avoid dazzling the rest of the world. I don't think turning lights on and off every five minutes contributes anything to flight safety. I do think using your eyes and manouvering to clear your blind spots is useful. Don't expect everyone else to see you, try to see everyone else. Now if we all do that, maybe it will help!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta Canada
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Yes, far too many pilots today are fiddling with their GPS or some other gadget and not looking out the cockpit. There are lots of airborne objects out there without landing lights, geese come to mind.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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In busy UK airspace (especially class G) see and be seen should surely be the mantra used by all?
Our machine, which is a skydive jump aircraft, is big and white and probably not the easiest thing to spot...so...
1) Lights on for take off / strobes on once in runway environment
2) Lights off with after take off checks (approx 1000ft)
3) Lights on in descent passing FL50 (anything to assist in seeing a pure white high wing utility aircraft bearing down on you at 2000fpm and 120kts!)
4) Lights / strobes off once cleared the active runway
I cannot see any sense in NOT having your landing lights on when entering a conventional circuit or ATZ. A glint of a landing light is going to catch yr attention when performing a visual scan.
Our machine, which is a skydive jump aircraft, is big and white and probably not the easiest thing to spot...so...
1) Lights on for take off / strobes on once in runway environment
2) Lights off with after take off checks (approx 1000ft)
3) Lights on in descent passing FL50 (anything to assist in seeing a pure white high wing utility aircraft bearing down on you at 2000fpm and 120kts!)
4) Lights / strobes off once cleared the active runway
I cannot see any sense in NOT having your landing lights on when entering a conventional circuit or ATZ. A glint of a landing light is going to catch yr attention when performing a visual scan.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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People seem to make all kinds of rules for these lights. In my opinion they are a pilot discretionary item. The first thing you should remember is, at the moment, to the pilot they are FREE!!! Common sense, I think.
The trouble with making up rules is that pilots can be preoccupied with the rule. Unbelievably, in the London TMA an aircraft bust its assigned altitude, the reason was that the company SOP was that the lights were to be turned ON within 25Miles of the airport (another stupid rule). The pilots were so busy watching the DME to be first to turn the lights on, they both missed the fact they had flown straight through their altitude!
Another fact is that according to the British ANO, there is no provisions for Landing lights, taxi lights, logo lights, icing lights and cabin lights, that can all be seen from an aircraft in flight. However, the order has provision for navigation lights, flashing red lights and strobe lights BUT, specifically states that "NO OTHER LIGHTS SHALL BE CARRIED". So now we know there are illegal anyway, why turn them on at all?
It's all pedantic claptrap. I say use them when you want to and use your head, remember that, unless the CAA wants to prosecute you, they are FREE!
Remember also that some airports require the use of certain lights as and when according to their bye laws!!!
The trouble with making up rules is that pilots can be preoccupied with the rule. Unbelievably, in the London TMA an aircraft bust its assigned altitude, the reason was that the company SOP was that the lights were to be turned ON within 25Miles of the airport (another stupid rule). The pilots were so busy watching the DME to be first to turn the lights on, they both missed the fact they had flown straight through their altitude!
Another fact is that according to the British ANO, there is no provisions for Landing lights, taxi lights, logo lights, icing lights and cabin lights, that can all be seen from an aircraft in flight. However, the order has provision for navigation lights, flashing red lights and strobe lights BUT, specifically states that "NO OTHER LIGHTS SHALL BE CARRIED". So now we know there are illegal anyway, why turn them on at all?
It's all pedantic claptrap. I say use them when you want to and use your head, remember that, unless the CAA wants to prosecute you, they are FREE!
Remember also that some airports require the use of certain lights as and when according to their bye laws!!!
Landing lights on when cleared for takeoff (controlled airport) or when commencing takeoff roll (uncontrolled airport). They stay on untill clear of the aerodrome traffic area/control zone. On in the practice area or when low level in poorer vis.
On return to the airport landing light goes on before entering the airport area and stays on untill clear of the runway. I think the landing light off at 300 feet thing is silly.
As for all those moaning about the cost of landing lights...... I say grow up. It makes airplanes significantly more conspicous and in my case the fact that another airplane had a landing light on probably saved my life.
On return to the airport landing light goes on before entering the airport area and stays on untill clear of the runway. I think the landing light off at 300 feet thing is silly.
As for all those moaning about the cost of landing lights...... I say grow up. It makes airplanes significantly more conspicous and in my case the fact that another airplane had a landing light on probably saved my life.
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Just wanted to post a lesson I learnt last week:
It was a night landing with the landing light switch in the ON position- It wasn't until over the numbers I realised there was no light coming out of it!
Landed by using aspect of runway edge lights- like I was trained to... But I should have checked fuses as a part of my Approach-checks, then it wouldn't have been such a surprise.
Ohh, and a further tip: After landing, stop and get a lit escort to guide you off if possible or even shut down somewhere near and out of the way. In a simulated failure with an instructor it would be logical to just switch it on again after landing. Just some decision-making experiences from a low-houred PPL.
I like the idea of using it near busy VRP's, and on and off if you spot conflicting traffic to catch their attention, thanks
It was a night landing with the landing light switch in the ON position- It wasn't until over the numbers I realised there was no light coming out of it!
Landed by using aspect of runway edge lights- like I was trained to... But I should have checked fuses as a part of my Approach-checks, then it wouldn't have been such a surprise.
Ohh, and a further tip: After landing, stop and get a lit escort to guide you off if possible or even shut down somewhere near and out of the way. In a simulated failure with an instructor it would be logical to just switch it on again after landing. Just some decision-making experiences from a low-houred PPL.
I like the idea of using it near busy VRP's, and on and off if you spot conflicting traffic to catch their attention, thanks
