24Carrot

Good point about google earth currency, I guess I was just trying to suggest a bit of prior thought about where to put it down if the donkey fails. I confess to flying two years out of an airfield never wondering why I was supposed to turn right 30 degs after take-off on one runway. A belated look at google earth made it very, very, obvious. Never saw it before, 'cos it was under the nose.

Centaurus

Careful now. If a flight ops inspector sees that term, next we know it will be added into aviation lexicon like TEM and CRM.. "Muscle memory...Jeez!

BEagle

An unbeliever!! Stone him!!

Big Pistons Forever

A common defintion of musclel memory is as follows

"Muscle memory, also known as motor learning, is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task; eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems"

Flow checks are a good example of using muscle memory and result in your hand going to the desired place without you having to look and guide it there meaning the eyes can be focused on more important tasks like looking out the windshield. Using muscle memory means that you only have to look at the lever/control/switch when you are actually going to move it (to conform you have the right control and are moving it in the right direction) and that you move automatically through all the required actions in the right order.

You can observe the development of muscle memory in every student, in for example how they get in and start up the aircraft. At the beginning they will be fumbling around in the cockpit going to teh wrong control, repaeating actions eetc but as they practice and get more familiar they will become smoother and more efficent.

In the context of an EFATO, lightly touching the applicable control as the actions are briefed builds muscle memory and as human factors research suggests, makes the action more likely to be correctly carried out. I also do the same thing for simulated emergencies in the air. Instead of just rattling off the memory and/or emergency checklist items I get the student to lightly touch
(but not move ! ) each item as the itemis called out. I find this is particularly valueable for the forced approach exercise. The engine failure drills for the Multi Engine rating are another example. I tell all my students to sit in the airplane on the ramp and practice untill muscle memory makes the actions automatic.

Back to the topic at hand, EFATO. I obviously believe a short brief of the crtitical actions before every takeoff is the best way to ensure a favourable outcome for an EFATO at any stage of the takeoff. Clearly there are posters here who thing I am silly for doing this but like I said we are never going to agree so time to move on.

Specifically with respect to muscle memory if you are not encouraging students practice tasks so that they get better than you are one crappy instructor. So Centaurus and BEagle sorry to break this to you but you have been teaching the use of muscle memory all this time, you were just ignorant as to the term to describe what you were doing


I will make one further comment aimed at low time pilots reading this thread. The incident/accident reports clearly show that light airplanes do not in general have as BEagle said (post #22) " raging fires " with "flames licking at your ankles" (post #10). In fact the first signs of a fire can be quite subtle and usually involve an unusual odour. In the 2 engine fires I am personally aware of, the first indication the pilot of the Cessna 421 knew he had a problem was when the tower told him he was trailing smoke. The second accident involved a PIper PA 31 which had a fire shortly after takeoff. The crew elected to turn back to the departure airport which was only a few minuites away but did not fully secure the engine. The fire burned through the mainspar and the aircraft crashed 400 yards short of the runway killing both pilots. This accident points to the vital importance of shutting down and fully securing the engine at the first confirmed sign of engine fire. I have also researched the accident data base and could not find one case of an engine fire in a light aircraft that did not go out when the engine was secured.

After reviewing this and other threads I have participated in, I seem to be out of tune with the regular posters on this forum as I seem to attract a lot of angry replies, therefore I do not intend to make any further posts on the instructor forum.

BEagle

In other words, you can rely upon being able to wipe your own backside without having to remember how to.....

Chuck Ellsworth

In spite of being ignorant of the buzz words and acronyms so loved by today's enlightened pilots isn't it interesting how us ignorant ones turned out so many competent well trained pilots?

One of the best bits of advice I can give all the new pilots in training and already licensed is regardless of what the check lists and the memory items have to say if you are faced with an emergency in an airplane the very first thing you do is " NOTHING " make sure you identify what must be done before you act, that should prevent you from doing something stupid fast.

Ryan5252

If I have learned nothing else from PPRuNe, I will take this away. Of course, I am wise enough to conclude that 'nothing' may only be for a split second to assess the situation, I'll not likely sit back with arms crossed thinking "Well, that's a puzzler!"

Thanks Mr.Ellsworth for the advice.

Ryan

Chuck Ellsworth

Ryan you have grasped the importance of doing " nothing " by understanding the doing " nothing " phase of an emergency relates to doing nothing physically while your brain is identifying what is happening and what you must do physically.

Airplanes once in motion have inertia and will continue in the direction they were moving and as inertia decays they will either slow down or lose altitude or both.

When training water bomber pilots I would demonstrate " Doing nothing " except thinking when practicing engine failures right after take off by reducing power to zero just after lift off from the water with a full load of water and counting to ten without any action except watching the airspeed decay.

During the ten count there would only be a two or three knot loss of airspeed......I always taught them to lift off the water and accelerate to minimum control speed plus ten knots before assuming the climbing attitude.

Once they became confident that there was no need to rush through the emergency procedures worrying about losing control due to loss of airspeed they were able to think and thus perform the needed actions accurately and thus maintain control.

One day we were working a fire in northern Manitoba and I lost the left engine just after lift off and without any rush went through the engine failure procedures and feathered the engine.

The F/O thought I was just doing a practice session until he suddenly put it all together and realized I had dropped the load of water and actually had feathered the engine.

With an empty airplane there was no real problem flying the seventy five miles to the nearest airport.

Dave Unwin

I think that part of the overall problem is the thinking that generated the sentance "As to an EFATO pre V1, in a Piper" (sorry, don't know how to do quotes. Bottom of page 2). We've all seen people climbing into a PA-28 wearing four gold bars and clutching a giant checklist. We know they'll check the status of the fixed undercarriage once airborne, but are they really calculating the V1?! Futhermore, as our steely-eyed hero hasn't yet attained V1, how can it be an EFATO, when the TO bit hasn't occured yet?

A37575

Off the subject slightly but relevant. If the Cessna 150/152 fuel valve is stiff to turn then you should write up the defect in the servicing document so it can be rectified before the next flight. This is a common defect in these aircraft and potentially dangerous especially with an engine fire during start up caused by throttle pumping and you can't turn the fuel off. Check the manufacture's pilot information manual and you will see the fuel valve should be turned off in event of a fire and forced landing. Very few flying schools teach the fuel valve should be turned off after each flight. This keeps the valve from binding due misuse.

Thanks for your attention - now where were we?

A37575

I started around 14 when I saw "The Outlaw" starring Jane Russell...