How do you teach the use of checklist?
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How do you teach the use of checklist?
Hello,
I have seen some discussion regarding the use of checklist in the previous threads but nothing really conclusive. There is a range of ways of using and teaching the checklist but what would be the most prefered way and how should a new PPL student taught to use it on a typical training aircraft.
Thanks for any feedback,
Spock a fresh and new FI
I have seen some discussion regarding the use of checklist in the previous threads but nothing really conclusive. There is a range of ways of using and teaching the checklist but what would be the most prefered way and how should a new PPL student taught to use it on a typical training aircraft.
Thanks for any feedback,
Spock a fresh and new FI
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If you are teaching at a school then the person to ask is the CFI as you ideally want all instructors teaching the same thing.
Personally I advocate learning all airborne checks, checks on the ground can either be learnt and done from memory or from checklist -normally for a new student, use a checklist here, but I would add that if they are done from memory they must be done correctly, and I would advise anyone not flying regularly to use a checklist on the ground.
Personally I advocate learning all airborne checks, checks on the ground can either be learnt and done from memory or from checklist -normally for a new student, use a checklist here, but I would add that if they are done from memory they must be done correctly, and I would advise anyone not flying regularly to use a checklist on the ground.
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Thanks Foxmoth, I will ceratainly consult my CFI but I'm also looking for some better understanding on the matter.
I guess the guestion is as well whether a PPL student should use a checklist to verify that all checklist items have been covered or as a "to do" list.
I guess the guestion is as well whether a PPL student should use a checklist to verify that all checklist items have been covered or as a "to do" list.
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Hello,
Checklists are a long proven method of handling a laundry list of items that if missed or not selected properly can cause serious issues as a flight progresses.
The process begins on the ground and continues through a flight on through shutdown.
I've found over time that especially in new instructors, there is a perception that finding a "single solution" that covers a specific situation has a tendency to squelch a more desired creative approach to flight instruction.
I always encourage new CFI's not to let this happen if possible.
There is no "single best way" to use a checklist. The best approach from the instructor's point of view is to stress the importance of using the checklist rather than the exact procedure to use to complete it.
Most pilots properly trained will develop a solid "attitude" toward the use of a checklist and develop a professional habit pattern that places their checklists in a proper order that insures a safe flight. The exact method used will of course differ from pilot to pilot based on the above, but I can't stress enough the need for instructors to impress students with the NEED for checklists and to demonstrate by action the importance THEY as instructors place upon the use of a checklist.
All this being said, my own personal preference developed over years of professional flying is the verbal touch and verify method. I use this in conjunction with written checklists where warranted and as well on all my axiom cross checks used in flight.
Dudley Henriques
I have seen some discussion regarding the use of checklist in the previous threads but nothing really conclusive. There is a range of ways of using and teaching the checklist but what would be the most prefered way and how should a new PPL student taught to use it on a typical training aircraft.
Thanks for any feedback,
Spock a fresh and new FI
Thanks for any feedback,
Spock a fresh and new FI
The process begins on the ground and continues through a flight on through shutdown.
I've found over time that especially in new instructors, there is a perception that finding a "single solution" that covers a specific situation has a tendency to squelch a more desired creative approach to flight instruction.
I always encourage new CFI's not to let this happen if possible.
There is no "single best way" to use a checklist. The best approach from the instructor's point of view is to stress the importance of using the checklist rather than the exact procedure to use to complete it.
Most pilots properly trained will develop a solid "attitude" toward the use of a checklist and develop a professional habit pattern that places their checklists in a proper order that insures a safe flight. The exact method used will of course differ from pilot to pilot based on the above, but I can't stress enough the need for instructors to impress students with the NEED for checklists and to demonstrate by action the importance THEY as instructors place upon the use of a checklist.
All this being said, my own personal preference developed over years of professional flying is the verbal touch and verify method. I use this in conjunction with written checklists where warranted and as well on all my axiom cross checks used in flight.
Dudley Henriques
Spock
As a new flight instructor you should be following the schools procedures. Unfortunately the majorty of flight training establishments have poor checklist formats and SOP for their use. The first problem is schools tend to use the checklist as a training tool instead of its real purpose which is purely a flight safety aid.
In other words if the checklist action will not have a significant potential effect on flight safety and and reasonable high probabilty of occuring, than it should not be on the checklist. I recently rented a 172 from a club in Ottawa and was pained to see the checklist was longer than the one we used on the Douglass DC6.
Secondly the checklist should be clearly divided into "do list actions" and "checklist" actions. This distinction is IMO poorly understood. A "do list" means you read the checklist and then do the action one by one,, a "checklist" means you do all the actions in that section and then pull out the written list and review it to make sure you have not forgotten anything. Do list are best suited to low work load phases of flight like the pretakeoff check, and checklists for higher work load times. For instance the prelanding check should IMO never be accomplised by means of a do list.
Finally most checklist are very poorly ordered with actions jumping all over the cabin. I strongly believe in flow checks, especially for single pilot operations, (by flow I mean the actions follow a consistant ,logical and linear pattern. For the typical trainer I like to use a counter clockwise circle starting at the fuel selector on floor and moving up through the throttle quandrant and than around the instruments, radio stack, and switch panel).
However since you indicated you are a low time instructor your abilty to influence the checklist format and SOP's is probably limited. So a few things to think about:
1) Everything on the checklist is not of equal importance, isolate the "killer items" and make sure the students (and you) pay particular attention to them
2) Reading the checklist can Never take precedance over flying the aircraft or keeping a good lookout. Correct the student immediately if you see an example of this.
3) Emergency checklist will have memory items. Make sure your students know them and challenge them with simulated emergencies, especially when they get into the later stages of training. The flight from/to the practice area is good time to do this. This also means you have to undestand the aircraft systems so that you can explain the "why" for every procedure not just the "what".
As a new flight instructor you should be following the schools procedures. Unfortunately the majorty of flight training establishments have poor checklist formats and SOP for their use. The first problem is schools tend to use the checklist as a training tool instead of its real purpose which is purely a flight safety aid.
In other words if the checklist action will not have a significant potential effect on flight safety and and reasonable high probabilty of occuring, than it should not be on the checklist. I recently rented a 172 from a club in Ottawa and was pained to see the checklist was longer than the one we used on the Douglass DC6.
Secondly the checklist should be clearly divided into "do list actions" and "checklist" actions. This distinction is IMO poorly understood. A "do list" means you read the checklist and then do the action one by one,, a "checklist" means you do all the actions in that section and then pull out the written list and review it to make sure you have not forgotten anything. Do list are best suited to low work load phases of flight like the pretakeoff check, and checklists for higher work load times. For instance the prelanding check should IMO never be accomplised by means of a do list.
Finally most checklist are very poorly ordered with actions jumping all over the cabin. I strongly believe in flow checks, especially for single pilot operations, (by flow I mean the actions follow a consistant ,logical and linear pattern. For the typical trainer I like to use a counter clockwise circle starting at the fuel selector on floor and moving up through the throttle quandrant and than around the instruments, radio stack, and switch panel).
However since you indicated you are a low time instructor your abilty to influence the checklist format and SOP's is probably limited. So a few things to think about:
1) Everything on the checklist is not of equal importance, isolate the "killer items" and make sure the students (and you) pay particular attention to them
2) Reading the checklist can Never take precedance over flying the aircraft or keeping a good lookout. Correct the student immediately if you see an example of this.
3) Emergency checklist will have memory items. Make sure your students know them and challenge them with simulated emergencies, especially when they get into the later stages of training. The flight from/to the practice area is good time to do this. This also means you have to undestand the aircraft systems so that you can explain the "why" for every procedure not just the "what".
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I strongly believe in flow checks, especially for single pilot operations, (by flow I mean the actions follow a consistent ,logical and linear pattern.
Flow pattern check list procedure is something I recommend highly for exactly the reasons you have stated and is part and parcel of the habit pattern development that in my opinion should be stressed by all instructors.
Dudley Henriques
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I have a few " Fear factor " checks that take precedence over everything else in the items to check and pay particular attention to them because they are killer items.
Fuel on and selected to tanks with proper quantity for take off.
Trims set for take off. ( Some airplanes have very powerful trim devices. )
Landing gear in correct position for take off and landing. ( Improper gear position can kill you in a heart beat. )
And last but not least is ....
Controls free.
One day we had returned to the airport after a three and a half hour water bombing mission and parked the airplane and went to town for something to eat.
Upon returning to the airport we were dispatched to another fire.
We got in the thing fired it up and got our take off clearance on the roll to the runway, just prior to entering the runway I got to the last item on my check list...controls free.....the fxxxxx ailerons were locked solid, looked out on the wings and there were the gust locks in place.
The engineer had put them on while we were in town even though there was no wind so we had to stop the airplane and shut down both engines so we could climb up on the wings and remove the locks.
It was very embarrassing that is for sure but at least the controls free check may have saved our pathetic lives.
Fuel on and selected to tanks with proper quantity for take off.
Trims set for take off. ( Some airplanes have very powerful trim devices. )
Landing gear in correct position for take off and landing. ( Improper gear position can kill you in a heart beat. )
And last but not least is ....
Controls free.
One day we had returned to the airport after a three and a half hour water bombing mission and parked the airplane and went to town for something to eat.
Upon returning to the airport we were dispatched to another fire.
We got in the thing fired it up and got our take off clearance on the roll to the runway, just prior to entering the runway I got to the last item on my check list...controls free.....the fxxxxx ailerons were locked solid, looked out on the wings and there were the gust locks in place.
The engineer had put them on while we were in town even though there was no wind so we had to stop the airplane and shut down both engines so we could climb up on the wings and remove the locks.
It was very embarrassing that is for sure but at least the controls free check may have saved our pathetic lives.
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I have a few " Fear factor " checks that take precedence over everything else in the items to check and pay particular attention to them because they are killer items.
Trims set for take off. ( Some airplanes have very powerful trim devices. )
Dudley Henriques
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we had quite a discussion of "KILLER ITEMS" memory check on line up during the discussion of the MD80 crash in spain.
but, I prefer and see the wisdom of using the "do list" and a challenge, response response method.
for example> copilot reads: Altimeters: check and set 30.10...captain says: check and set 30.10
If one is constantly changing planes, getting retrained on different types, using a do list is the right thing
now, if you truly will only fly one plane ther est of your life...well then flows and a true "check only" list might be ok
but I've seen people switch between the entire fleet that my airline had in a course of 7 years...always learning something new and getting things a bit confused with other planes.
but, I prefer and see the wisdom of using the "do list" and a challenge, response response method.
for example> copilot reads: Altimeters: check and set 30.10...captain says: check and set 30.10
If one is constantly changing planes, getting retrained on different types, using a do list is the right thing
now, if you truly will only fly one plane ther est of your life...well then flows and a true "check only" list might be ok
but I've seen people switch between the entire fleet that my airline had in a course of 7 years...always learning something new and getting things a bit confused with other planes.
Protectthehornet
You are absolutely right with respect to challenge and response do lists....for 2 crew large aircraft operations, although they should still flow logically. But Spock's question was with respect to flight training in small aircraft. This is by definition a single pilot operation with inexperienced pilots. The checks have to be doable in considering there will be times during every flight when the pilot will not be able to safely devote the heads down time to read a printed checklist.
A big thumbs up to the idea of setting the trim for takeoff as part of the shut down check. I learned that the hard way .....
You are absolutely right with respect to challenge and response do lists....for 2 crew large aircraft operations, although they should still flow logically. But Spock's question was with respect to flight training in small aircraft. This is by definition a single pilot operation with inexperienced pilots. The checks have to be doable in considering there will be times during every flight when the pilot will not be able to safely devote the heads down time to read a printed checklist.
A big thumbs up to the idea of setting the trim for takeoff as part of the shut down check. I learned that the hard way .....
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big pistons for ever
ok...then let me say this///when I taught in small planes, I made my student become his own copilot...
now, we both know that checklists for smaller planes are usually, though not always, less complicated than big planes and certain checks should be easily done while in flight...but setup and pre takeoff...take your time to do it right
now, we both know that checklists for smaller planes are usually, though not always, less complicated than big planes and certain checks should be easily done while in flight...but setup and pre takeoff...take your time to do it right
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Personally I think checklists are a fairly poor method of preparation. For certain actions they are useful but you run the risk of falling into unvoluntary automaticity and simply reading the checklist like a book, and not actually paying attention to what you're checking.
I know the verbal and touch check obviously reduces the effect but it still stands. Nothing you can do about it though.
I know the verbal and touch check obviously reduces the effect but it still stands. Nothing you can do about it though.
protectthehelmet
quote ok...then let me say this///when I taught in small planes, I made my student become his own copilot...
now, we both know that checklists for smaller planes are usually, though not always, less complicated than big planes and certain checks should be easily done while in flight...but setup and pre takeoff...take your time to do it right unquote
I guess we are in violent agreement then, as that is exactly what I said on my earlier post (no 5)
quote ok...then let me say this///when I taught in small planes, I made my student become his own copilot...
now, we both know that checklists for smaller planes are usually, though not always, less complicated than big planes and certain checks should be easily done while in flight...but setup and pre takeoff...take your time to do it right unquote
I guess we are in violent agreement then, as that is exactly what I said on my earlier post (no 5)
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Thank you for your input. I have read all your posts several times to make sure I have understood them in the correct way.
I will be instructing in small club style environment where my input seems to be expected. Verified by this discussions, for me personally it makes most sense following the checklist as a do list on the ground and using memory items and flows in air and emergencies. Killer items is a good point and something about which I haven't heard before. But as I said earlier I will consult my CFI and try to prevent any excessive creativity.
I will be instructing in small club style environment where my input seems to be expected. Verified by this discussions, for me personally it makes most sense following the checklist as a do list on the ground and using memory items and flows in air and emergencies. Killer items is a good point and something about which I haven't heard before. But as I said earlier I will consult my CFI and try to prevent any excessive creativity.
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capt spock
those line up /cross the threshold things are really vital...flaps/slats, trim, controls free and correct...parking brake off and spoilers retracted on bigger planes
and please in this modern age...I also do TLC (which used to mean Tender Loving Care)...but now means:
T for Transponder on (it helps and is required for anti collision devices on big planes to work...TCAS)
L for Lights: on...for recognition and collision avoidance
and the big one that killed 49 people here in the usa...C for compass check with runway heading/bearing....if the crew had done this at Lexington , Kentucky, USA...they would have realized they were on the wrong runway...too short.
TLC, get it?
And in small planes...GUMP for landing, even in fixed gear planes
and before leaving the cockpit...MMM MMM GOOD...just like campbell's soup?
M...mixture/idle cutoof
M...master switch off
M...magnetos off and keys on top of anti glare panel
and read "Stick and Rudder" by wolfgang langweische
and please in this modern age...I also do TLC (which used to mean Tender Loving Care)...but now means:
T for Transponder on (it helps and is required for anti collision devices on big planes to work...TCAS)
L for Lights: on...for recognition and collision avoidance
and the big one that killed 49 people here in the usa...C for compass check with runway heading/bearing....if the crew had done this at Lexington , Kentucky, USA...they would have realized they were on the wrong runway...too short.
TLC, get it?
And in small planes...GUMP for landing, even in fixed gear planes
and before leaving the cockpit...MMM MMM GOOD...just like campbell's soup?
M...mixture/idle cutoof
M...master switch off
M...magnetos off and keys on top of anti glare panel
and read "Stick and Rudder" by wolfgang langweische
Manufacturers and operators of light aircraft (and some larger types) seem to want checklists to cover every action needed to make the aeroplane go. Stuff like paperwork done, seatbelts on, clearance obtained etc. All to avoid potential litigation. The danger with that can be too much heads down and distraction so that ATC calls and other traffic gets missed.
At the other end of the spectrum we have the latest thinking from Boeing which is to keep the checklist down to the 'killer' items or items that could cause acute embarrassment if forgotten. However, they do back up their short checklists with comprehensive training manuals.
For the question of the PPL in a simple aircraft type there are pros and cons to the case for a checklist versus learning old-fashioned memonics such as TMPFISCH, BUMPF etc.
When I fly my little bugsmasher, I have a simple pre-start checklist to make sure that I have got the pitot cover off, fuel on, canopy locked (because in this one the canopy could be a killer) flaps set for takeoff (because they are left full down when parked) and trim full forward (because that makes it a whole lot more manageable on takeoff). In other words, stuff that could cause a real problem if forgotten. However, I do these from memory, then consult the checklist as insurance. Thereafter, I rely on memory and scans because it really is a simple aeroplane. In a basic single engine aircraft it should not be necessary for the checklist to tell you to turn on the battery and ignition to start the engine, or to set radios, QNH etc; and checking brakes and flight controls full and free are essential airmanship items that apply to every type.
It may be appropriate for a more complex aircraft checklist to include mixtures and props etc, but the aim should be to keep it as simple as possible. In usage, it should be taught to do the checks from memory in a logical sequence, then read the checklist item by item while confirming with a second look at the switch, control etc.
Multi-crew operation is not much different in concept.
At the other end of the spectrum we have the latest thinking from Boeing which is to keep the checklist down to the 'killer' items or items that could cause acute embarrassment if forgotten. However, they do back up their short checklists with comprehensive training manuals.
For the question of the PPL in a simple aircraft type there are pros and cons to the case for a checklist versus learning old-fashioned memonics such as TMPFISCH, BUMPF etc.
When I fly my little bugsmasher, I have a simple pre-start checklist to make sure that I have got the pitot cover off, fuel on, canopy locked (because in this one the canopy could be a killer) flaps set for takeoff (because they are left full down when parked) and trim full forward (because that makes it a whole lot more manageable on takeoff). In other words, stuff that could cause a real problem if forgotten. However, I do these from memory, then consult the checklist as insurance. Thereafter, I rely on memory and scans because it really is a simple aeroplane. In a basic single engine aircraft it should not be necessary for the checklist to tell you to turn on the battery and ignition to start the engine, or to set radios, QNH etc; and checking brakes and flight controls full and free are essential airmanship items that apply to every type.
It may be appropriate for a more complex aircraft checklist to include mixtures and props etc, but the aim should be to keep it as simple as possible. In usage, it should be taught to do the checks from memory in a logical sequence, then read the checklist item by item while confirming with a second look at the switch, control etc.
Multi-crew operation is not much different in concept.
But Spock's question was with respect to flight training in small aircraft. This is by definition a single pilot operation with inexperienced pilots.
From the time they enter the cockpit all checks should be done by scan flow and no checklist permitted. On countless occasions I have seen checklists being used as a crutch to see what should be done next. I have seen students who are unable to operate unless they have a checklist to tell them how to start an engine and how to stop an engine. Their confidence is eroded so much they cannot think for themselves. I took over a student who had not yet gone solo despite 35 dual flying hours. When requested to conduct the before start scan, the hapless student sat there for a moment and said "I haven't a clue what you are talking about. I don't know how to fly this aeroplane (a Cessna 152) unless you allow me to use my checklist.
His instructor had even given him a checklist to read to cover the engine failure after take off case. Once we sorted out that problem, the student quickly gained confidence and it was not long that he flew his first solo. It was pointed out that in airliners the crew knew off by heart all required cockpit drills.
Without going into the different types and method of using written checklists in sophisticated multi-engine two crew aircraft types, I am convinced that written checklists are detrimental to the training of student pilots. By all means give the student a written list of cockpit drills to study at home. Better still ensure the student has a copy of the manufacturer's Pilot Information Manual for the type of aeroplane he intends to fly. He should be quizzed on it's content before first flight.
You don't need a written checklist to learn to start a car or hop on a bike. You are led through the procedure until it becomes second nature. Same applies with flying a Tiger Moth or similar light trainer like a Cessna.
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Many will doubtless disagree, but using a written checklist from a students very first flight is a trap for the unwary.
The use of a written checklist is not only necessary but CRITICAL when teaching a new student. Flow patterns are formed FROM checklists. The checklist is the very basis from which ALL habit patterns are formed.
There is a reason why checklists are supplied, and that reason has been proven over time to be extremely sound.
This reasoning holds true for a J3 Cub as well as a 747.
I would respectfully suggest that you revisit your thinking on this subject.
Dudley Henriques
I also strongly dispute the contention that written checklist not be used. With respect to large aircraft operations I think it is important to note that the checklist is just one part of a larger set of written codified SOP's. For instance the normal operations section of the CONVAIR 580 I fly is 42 pages long. The problem is most Flight Training establishment try to use the checklist as direction on how to operate the aircraft instead of its real purpose which is as purely a flight safety device. I have restructored my PPL/CPL training curiculum to follow the same philosophy, So for example after you have started the engine, checklist (not do list !) says "check engine". The associated SOP is " after engine starts set 1000 RPM and check oil pressure guage. It should show oil pressure starting to rise within 10 secs and should stabilize above the low redline within 30 sec. If it does not shut down the engine immediately. After checking the oil pressure check the ammeter. It should be near the zero mark. If it shows a very high discharge shut down the engine immediately as you have a hung starter". I expect my student to know the SOP's and do the after start engine check as a flow.
This is a very intersting mixture of techniques,...I can see where Centaurus is coming from,...I think it boils down to the general laziness of students,... that makes his approach for training very reasonable,...poor systems knowledge is one of those things that follow many pilots to the grave yard [ask you typical ppl where the alternate air source and how do you operate it
]
so I think his approach enforces systems knowledge
however if high systems knowledge is demanded from ground school the checklist is an appropriate aide,...but
detailed reading of the POH and all expanded supplemetal sections is just as important for a student as it is for a person embarking on transport type training ---these issued must be adressed on the ground,...a checklist is a tool to aide in the proper accomplishment of flows not as a systems guide therefore being able to operate the sytems and perform all flows competently i.e not just say mags checked or trim ok w/o looking/ actually checking is inapropriate but no checklist will help that,...
... you can give me the checklist to the space shuttle and I will be at a total loss,...even though I believe in early/disciplined and knowledgeable checklist usage,...I don't disagree with Centaurus' points just more 'old skool' an approach,..I see both sides but my final word for ALL flight training is that one learns to fly on the ground and that the air is for practice
Dudley Henriques is your name pronounced enrikays or ahnreek?
PA
] so I think his approach enforces systems knowledge
however if high systems knowledge is demanded from ground school the checklist is an appropriate aide,...but
detailed reading of the POH and all expanded supplemetal sections is just as important for a student as it is for a person embarking on transport type training ---these issued must be adressed on the ground,...a checklist is a tool to aide in the proper accomplishment of flows not as a systems guide therefore being able to operate the sytems and perform all flows competently i.e not just say mags checked or trim ok w/o looking/ actually checking is inapropriate but no checklist will help that,...
... you can give me the checklist to the space shuttle and I will be at a total loss,...even though I believe in early/disciplined and knowledgeable checklist usage,...I don't disagree with Centaurus' points just more 'old skool' an approach,..I see both sides but my final word for ALL flight training is that one learns to fly on the ground and that the air is for practice
Dudley Henriques is your name pronounced enrikays or ahnreek?
PA
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 27th Nov 2009 at 17:33. Reason: illiteracy