How do you teach turning?
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You can sense the angle of bank of an aircraft from the ailerons and the feedback you get increases with increased lateral stability
It has killed before and will kill again many a time. Any instrument instructor worth there salt can put you into an unusual attitude and you won't have a clue which direction you are turning (actually that's a lie it will be the opposite one than you think).
You can sense the angle of bank of an aircraft from the ailerons and the feedback you get increases with increased lateral stability
I can feel 'g' forces and hear the engine note change with increase in airspeed. But that doesn't tell me if or how much I am turning.
I think you need to reconsider what you are saying, especially if you tell your students what you have said here.
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O.K. gang lets look at this in its most simple context.
You as the instructor should know what a shallow angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a medium angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a steep angle of bank looks like.
The very first lesson you teach is attitudes and movements, do not move to the next lesson until the student understands attitudes and movements.
These are taught by demonstrating what it looks like outside the airplane you must make sure the student fully understands and can demonstrate the attitudes and movements and more important understands the effect of controls to produce and control attitudes and movements.
From there on it is far easier to teach them the rest of the lessons.
Flying an airplane is a medium skills and thought process activity and well within the average persons ability to master.
However being able to teach same is a tad more demanding and is not a skill all pilots can become excellent at.
Maybe I will get real ambitious and explain how I teach various airplane handling issues....like tail wheel for instance.
Assuming anyone is interested of course.
You as the instructor should know what a shallow angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a medium angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a steep angle of bank looks like.
The very first lesson you teach is attitudes and movements, do not move to the next lesson until the student understands attitudes and movements.
These are taught by demonstrating what it looks like outside the airplane you must make sure the student fully understands and can demonstrate the attitudes and movements and more important understands the effect of controls to produce and control attitudes and movements.
From there on it is far easier to teach them the rest of the lessons.
Flying an airplane is a medium skills and thought process activity and well within the average persons ability to master.
However being able to teach same is a tad more demanding and is not a skill all pilots can become excellent at.
Maybe I will get real ambitious and explain how I teach various airplane handling issues....like tail wheel for instance.
Assuming anyone is interested of course.
If I may add to Chucks comments
Quote You as the instructor should know what a shallow angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a medium angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a steep angle of bank looks like Unquote
You as the instructor must know the above solely by reference to the natural horizon. In other words if you cannot role into a shallow, medium and steep turns, holding the correct bank angle and a pitch attitude which will maintain level flight by looking out of the windshield than you should not be instructing IMHO.
Quote You as the instructor should know what a shallow angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a medium angle of bank looks like.
You as an instructor should know what a steep angle of bank looks like Unquote
You as the instructor must know the above solely by reference to the natural horizon. In other words if you cannot role into a shallow, medium and steep turns, holding the correct bank angle and a pitch attitude which will maintain level flight by looking out of the windshield than you should not be instructing IMHO.
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Exactly.
What I can not figure out is why we even have to be discussing such basic issues, how in hell do instructors even get the license if they do not understand the basics and are unable to teach same?????
What I can not figure out is why we even have to be discussing such basic issues, how in hell do instructors even get the license if they do not understand the basics and are unable to teach same?????
Quite so - what on earth are they teaching at flight instructor schools these days?
With the downturn in the airline industry, more people are trying to scrape hours by becoming instructors whilst 'hours building'. Some unscrupulous schools are churning out more and more instructors to meet a demand which simply doesn't exist. They're quite happy to train the instructor - but whether there will be any work for the novice FI is a different matter. What do they tell their instructor-students about the state of the industry?
Which other industry uses wet-behind-the-ears inexperienced people to teach the core skills required in that industry? Can you imagine a newly-qualified doctor getting an instant job in a teaching hospital?
Still, it's highly likely that, in a few years, PPL holders in €uroland will be permitted to receive remuneration for flight instruction. Which means that flying clubs will be able to employ experienced PPL holders, rather than airline wannabees with no real world experience.
With the downturn in the airline industry, more people are trying to scrape hours by becoming instructors whilst 'hours building'. Some unscrupulous schools are churning out more and more instructors to meet a demand which simply doesn't exist. They're quite happy to train the instructor - but whether there will be any work for the novice FI is a different matter. What do they tell their instructor-students about the state of the industry?
Which other industry uses wet-behind-the-ears inexperienced people to teach the core skills required in that industry? Can you imagine a newly-qualified doctor getting an instant job in a teaching hospital?
Still, it's highly likely that, in a few years, PPL holders in €uroland will be permitted to receive remuneration for flight instruction. Which means that flying clubs will be able to employ experienced PPL holders, rather than airline wannabees with no real world experience.
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Maybe I will get real ambitious and explain how I teach various airplane handling issues....like tail wheel for instance.
I have learned numerous things via Pprunes collective experience, and am always willing to learn more.
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Mad Jock when checking out licensed pilots who have not flown tail wheel airplanes before I first teach them to handle it on the ground before we fly the thing.
In this order.
( 1) Normal taxiing.
( 2 ) Loss of directional control during taxiing by use of brake to start a ground loop at a speed that is safe. ( In an area with plenty of manouvering room such as a paved apron. )
( 3 ) High speed runs down the runway with the tail in the air.
( 4 ) High speed runs down the runway with the tail in the air S turning from one side of the center line to the other.
When the student has mastered these tasks including using the throttle I then take them flying.
The flying exercises are.
( 1 ) Normal take off and three point landings.
( 2 ) Normal take off and wheel landings.
( 3 ) X/wind landings both three point and wheel landings with the main focus on wheel landings.
I also find it very important to teach them how to flare and touch down by verbally calling the height above ground starting at fifty feet.
50 feet
40 feet
30 feet
25 feet
20 feet
15 feet
10 feet
9 /8 / 7/ 6/ 5/ 4/ 3 /2 /1 / 0.
I try and keep things simple and concentrate on the issues that produce confident, competent pilots.
Generally I can go home after teaching them how to actually fly the airplane knowing they were well indoctrinated in all the alphabet soup stuff by the system long before I got them.
Therefore by focusing on how to actually fly the airplane I feel I have made real pilots out of them.
*****************************************************
It is frightening how many licensed pilots really do not know how high they are off the runway from fifty feet down, by verbally calling their height and a ensuring they are looking in the correct place to judge height both before the flare and after the flare they learn what the picture should look like as they close with the runway. Once they get this burnt into their brain landings are far easier and more controlled...rather than the arrivals most of them were satisfied with..
In this order.
( 1) Normal taxiing.
( 2 ) Loss of directional control during taxiing by use of brake to start a ground loop at a speed that is safe. ( In an area with plenty of manouvering room such as a paved apron. )
( 3 ) High speed runs down the runway with the tail in the air.
( 4 ) High speed runs down the runway with the tail in the air S turning from one side of the center line to the other.
When the student has mastered these tasks including using the throttle I then take them flying.
The flying exercises are.
( 1 ) Normal take off and three point landings.
( 2 ) Normal take off and wheel landings.
( 3 ) X/wind landings both three point and wheel landings with the main focus on wheel landings.
I also find it very important to teach them how to flare and touch down by verbally calling the height above ground starting at fifty feet.
50 feet
40 feet
30 feet
25 feet
20 feet
15 feet
10 feet
9 /8 / 7/ 6/ 5/ 4/ 3 /2 /1 / 0.
I try and keep things simple and concentrate on the issues that produce confident, competent pilots.
Generally I can go home after teaching them how to actually fly the airplane knowing they were well indoctrinated in all the alphabet soup stuff by the system long before I got them.
Therefore by focusing on how to actually fly the airplane I feel I have made real pilots out of them.
*****************************************************
It is frightening how many licensed pilots really do not know how high they are off the runway from fifty feet down, by verbally calling their height and a ensuring they are looking in the correct place to judge height both before the flare and after the flare they learn what the picture should look like as they close with the runway. Once they get this burnt into their brain landings are far easier and more controlled...rather than the arrivals most of them were satisfied with..
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 14th Nov 2009 at 23:59.
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Thanks for that Chuck.
Your quite correct with the height call outs.
Never mind students a couple of FO's I was wondering for a bit why they always did a carrier landing's in certain airframes. Then realised that the airframes they more often than not got a half decent one on, were the ones that call the heights to them.
Your quite correct with the height call outs.
Never mind students a couple of FO's I was wondering for a bit why they always did a carrier landing's in certain airframes. Then realised that the airframes they more often than not got a half decent one on, were the ones that call the heights to them.
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I used a similar approach to tailwheel checkouts. When using the T6 with a check flight going into the Mustang I developed a little trick that paid high dividends when applied to other much lighter tail wheel birds.
I'd make the initial takeoffs on an unused runway and have the student taxi out and assume a takeoff position. Then I'd just let them sit there and watch as I directed their attention to the two sides of the lower windshield and how the runway looks when in this position.
Those two triangular visual cues are extremely important to get used to as they represent the touchdown and rollout cue with both sides equidistant and in balance.
When flying the Mustang, this vue is critical. I found it extremely helpful on down to a J3 Cub :-))
Dudley Henriques
I'd make the initial takeoffs on an unused runway and have the student taxi out and assume a takeoff position. Then I'd just let them sit there and watch as I directed their attention to the two sides of the lower windshield and how the runway looks when in this position.
Those two triangular visual cues are extremely important to get used to as they represent the touchdown and rollout cue with both sides equidistant and in balance.
When flying the Mustang, this vue is critical. I found it extremely helpful on down to a J3 Cub :-))
Dudley Henriques
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Jock, I also video the landings and de-brief on a TV or Lap Top screen to better allow the student to learn how the picture should look and where to look and what to look for.
When there was a problem with a given approach and landing all I need do is freeze the video and ask the student to use the laser pointer I give them to put the red dot on the area they were looking at at that time...then if they were looking in the wrong place I show them where they should be looking by placing the dot in the correct place in the picture.
The students always remember where they were looking for the simple reason they were there only a short time before.
That method of de-briefing is very effective.
By the way I also charge a rate that allows me to justify teaching, and only charge for flight time the pre briefing and post briefings are treated as quality time sharing.
When there was a problem with a given approach and landing all I need do is freeze the video and ask the student to use the laser pointer I give them to put the red dot on the area they were looking at at that time...then if they were looking in the wrong place I show them where they should be looking by placing the dot in the correct place in the picture.
The students always remember where they were looking for the simple reason they were there only a short time before.
That method of de-briefing is very effective.
By the way I also charge a rate that allows me to justify teaching, and only charge for flight time the pre briefing and post briefings are treated as quality time sharing.
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Unfortunately I am back flying TP's again with no flight schools about.
The school that I used to help out in a couple of months ago were looking into getting a camera mount for student debriefs.
Initially it was for trial flights to take a video home with them but the training debrief possibility's are cracking.
The school that I used to help out in a couple of months ago were looking into getting a camera mount for student debriefs.
Initially it was for trial flights to take a video home with them but the training debrief possibility's are cracking.
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Yes Jock using videos as training aids is truly the way to make the training session an easier task, it is hard to beat a video of what it is you are trying to relate to.
Look at the porn industry, videos have made it one of the most successful ventures in society because it allows one to relate to the activity.
Look at the porn industry, videos have made it one of the most successful ventures in society because it allows one to relate to the activity.
I'd make the initial takeoffs on an unused runway and have the student taxi out and assume a takeoff position. Then I'd just let them sit there and watch as I directed their attention to the two sides of the lower windshield and how the runway looks when in this position.
I demonstrate the round out and hold-off while feeding in power to remain level at the round out height, then climb a couple of feet, go back down, up again, and so on until we run out of runway, while the student calls out what is happening. It gives them a lot longer to see what is happening. Next approach is theirs, and usually they manage a decent round out and hold off at once. I do cheat by approaching rather fast, and I don't hide this from them, I explain before flight that it is to enable them to take a longer look at the round out and hold off. This works with gliders as well, just keep the airbrakes closed, but obviously you need to leave enough runway for a landing .
The other thing that is useful is to have them climb up and down a stepladder while they change from near vision to close in, to give them a feel for where they should be looking to judge height. Very cost effective as long as they don't fall off
I have been known to get the student to film an approach, (mine) but I'm not happy about working a handheld camera while teaching a landing and I really don't see any way of fitting a camera mount to our school trainer, we work quite close enough to the legal weight limit as it is (3 axis microlight - does that debar me from posting here ?
)
only charge for flight time the pre briefing and post briefings are treated as quality time sharing.
