What have you done with your CRI rating
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What have you done with your CRI rating
Hi Guys,
I am interested in doing the CRI course at some future time.
I am well aware what one is qualified to do with a CRI rating attached to a PPL as this can be read in LASORS, but I should be curious to know what kinds of flying activity people have actually done with their CRI? Have you found your CRI to be money well spent?
Regards,
Broomstick.
I am interested in doing the CRI course at some future time.
I am well aware what one is qualified to do with a CRI rating attached to a PPL as this can be read in LASORS, but I should be curious to know what kinds of flying activity people have actually done with their CRI? Have you found your CRI to be money well spent?
Regards,
Broomstick.
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I suspect alot depends on your timing. At present there is shed loads of FI looking for work with few takers and I suspect most places would employ an FI over a CRI.
However if and when the market picks up I would expect this to change.
However if and when the market picks up I would expect this to change.
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Am similarly looking at doing CRI course later in the year.
There is the possibility of getting flights through "word of mouth" as I understand it, as you don't strictly need to be affiliated with a club, if I understand the rules correctly??
There was some debate on here recently about whether you could advertise as such & the concensus (or the opinion of the wise Whopity at least...) was that it was permitted.
Hence, if so, can you gain work through simple networking??
There is the possibility of getting flights through "word of mouth" as I understand it, as you don't strictly need to be affiliated with a club, if I understand the rules correctly??
There was some debate on here recently about whether you could advertise as such & the concensus (or the opinion of the wise Whopity at least...) was that it was permitted.
Hence, if so, can you gain work through simple networking??
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PS. I know WLAC at White Waltham has at least two & the Tiger Club at Headcorn seems to be dominated by CRI's, but how many are typical in a UK club?? And how many work "independently", within syndicates etc??
Would be interested to know.
Cheers
BFA
Would be interested to know.
Cheers
BFA
If you read Schedule 8 you find the following:
PPL
CPL
So the ANO requires all instruction to be given within a club! I believe the reason that this has never been enforced is because the ANO contains no definition of a "Flying Club" and could be deemed to be two persons with a common interest!
PPL
(2) He shall not:
(a) fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of public transport or aerial work save as hereinafter provided:
(i) he may fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of aerial work which consists
of:
(aa) the giving of instruction in flying, if his licence includes a flying
instructor’s rating, class rating instructor rating, flight instructor rating
or an assistant flying instructor’s rating; or
(bb) the conducting of flying tests for the purposes of this Order;
in either case in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members;
(a) fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of public transport or aerial work save as hereinafter provided:
(i) he may fly such an aeroplane for the purpose of aerial work which consists
of:
(aa) the giving of instruction in flying, if his licence includes a flying
instructor’s rating, class rating instructor rating, flight instructor rating
or an assistant flying instructor’s rating; or
(bb) the conducting of flying tests for the purposes of this Order;
in either case in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members;
4) Subject to paragraph (5), he shall be entitled to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane of a type or class specified in an instructor’s rating included in the licence on a flight for the purpose of aerial work which consists of:
(a) the giving of instruction in flying; or
(b) the conducting of flying tests for the purposes of this Order;
in either case in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members.
(a) the giving of instruction in flying; or
(b) the conducting of flying tests for the purposes of this Order;
in either case in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members.
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What - and how much of it?
Hi Guys,
As we all know, what is written on paper is not always what happens in reality.
What I am trying to discover is just what kinds of instruction people have actually been able to do using their CRI, (i.e. complex single, differences training, etc)?
Also whether the amount of such work, as they have been able to get, has been sufficient in amount to justify the not-insignificant cost of getting the CRI in the first place?
Would the money perhaps have been better spent on other things?
Or would it have been more sensible to have spent even more money and go for a full FI?
Has anyone become brassed off with the limitations of the CRI and then gone on to get the full FI?
Broomstick.
As we all know, what is written on paper is not always what happens in reality.
What I am trying to discover is just what kinds of instruction people have actually been able to do using their CRI, (i.e. complex single, differences training, etc)?
Also whether the amount of such work, as they have been able to get, has been sufficient in amount to justify the not-insignificant cost of getting the CRI in the first place?
Would the money perhaps have been better spent on other things?
Or would it have been more sensible to have spent even more money and go for a full FI?
Has anyone become brassed off with the limitations of the CRI and then gone on to get the full FI?
Broomstick.
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Whopity - thanks for that.
In reality, if I understand it then:
(i) A syndicate could be argued to be a "club", short of a definition.
(ii) It is sufficient for both CRI & PPL to be members of a club, but CRI doesn't necessarily have to be an official instructor with the club. Not sure that's how the club would prefer things to work, but appears to be allowed by way of the rules.
Broomstick - not sure if this helps, but having spoken to several CFI's about CRI's, concensus seems to be:
- At places with lots of ab-initio training or high-end CPL training, their use is pretty limited or nil.
- At busy clubs with plenty of checkouts & diff training etc, they can be really handy in that they can siphon off these less taxing flights & free up the paid FI's to handle the more demanding sorties....pre-solo's, navex's, pre-test etc.
Sure someone vastly more experienced will be able to give their take....
BFA
In reality, if I understand it then:
(i) A syndicate could be argued to be a "club", short of a definition.
(ii) It is sufficient for both CRI & PPL to be members of a club, but CRI doesn't necessarily have to be an official instructor with the club. Not sure that's how the club would prefer things to work, but appears to be allowed by way of the rules.
Broomstick - not sure if this helps, but having spoken to several CFI's about CRI's, concensus seems to be:
- At places with lots of ab-initio training or high-end CPL training, their use is pretty limited or nil.
- At busy clubs with plenty of checkouts & diff training etc, they can be really handy in that they can siphon off these less taxing flights & free up the paid FI's to handle the more demanding sorties....pre-solo's, navex's, pre-test etc.
Sure someone vastly more experienced will be able to give their take....
BFA
Last edited by betterfromabove; 20th Jul 2009 at 18:11.
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Broomstick, I would like to add my 2 cents if I may.
I originally did the CRI (SE) course about 5 years ago. I added a CRI (ME) and an IRI over the following years as well as a CRE (SE/ME). I recently added an FI rating as it was required for work in order to take up a post as Head of Training at a TRTO. I do not work in an FTO teaching for the PPL so have never actually used any of the privileges of an FI rating, all of my Instruction over the years has been using the CRI privileges. I teach all of the various differences training with tail-wheel being my favourite as well as many hundreds of the hours flight with an instructor sessions.
Being a CRI tends to bring in far more of the 'interesting' work than being an FTO FI as the people who come to you tend to be outside the club system and operate from farm strips and private airfields with no membership of flying clubs. This means that you get to fly more interesting aircraft from unusual places. If you have more than 800hrs and are an LAA member you can also become an LAA Coach which opens up even more interesting flying.
If you are interested in putting something into aviation without wanting to get involved in the routine basic training then the CRI is certainly a very powerful tool. You can start off with it on a PPL and if you wish to move on and add a CPL you can become a CRE etc. There are a lot of CRI's working in flying schools as well. A lot of clubs have come to realise that they can integrate CRI's into the structure and as they are people doing it for the love of it rather than the hours building exercise they actually manage to retain Instructors and thus valuable experience. You generally find that those getting into the CRI/E are high hours pilots wanting to put something back. I got my current job on the basis of my CRI experience because it was so varied.......
I originally did the CRI (SE) course about 5 years ago. I added a CRI (ME) and an IRI over the following years as well as a CRE (SE/ME). I recently added an FI rating as it was required for work in order to take up a post as Head of Training at a TRTO. I do not work in an FTO teaching for the PPL so have never actually used any of the privileges of an FI rating, all of my Instruction over the years has been using the CRI privileges. I teach all of the various differences training with tail-wheel being my favourite as well as many hundreds of the hours flight with an instructor sessions.
Being a CRI tends to bring in far more of the 'interesting' work than being an FTO FI as the people who come to you tend to be outside the club system and operate from farm strips and private airfields with no membership of flying clubs. This means that you get to fly more interesting aircraft from unusual places. If you have more than 800hrs and are an LAA member you can also become an LAA Coach which opens up even more interesting flying.
If you are interested in putting something into aviation without wanting to get involved in the routine basic training then the CRI is certainly a very powerful tool. You can start off with it on a PPL and if you wish to move on and add a CPL you can become a CRE etc. There are a lot of CRI's working in flying schools as well. A lot of clubs have come to realise that they can integrate CRI's into the structure and as they are people doing it for the love of it rather than the hours building exercise they actually manage to retain Instructors and thus valuable experience. You generally find that those getting into the CRI/E are high hours pilots wanting to put something back. I got my current job on the basis of my CRI experience because it was so varied.......
Last edited by S-Works; 26th Jul 2009 at 12:25.
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I recently added an FI rating as it was required for work in order to take up a post as Head of Training at a TRTO
Broomstickpilot,
Just so that you do not have your expectations raised incorrectly - you will not be apointed as HoT at a reputable TRTO providing fixed wing training unless you meet the CAA's requirement for "extensive" experience as an FI, TRI or Line Training Captain.
Regards,
DFC
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Actually DFC it is extensive experience as an Instructor and with wider business experience that the CAA seek prior to approving someone as Head of Training. My experience was acceptable whatever your opinion. It's all there in Standards Doc 34.
I also find your insinuation that the TRTO I work for is not reputable, offensive and libellous. Not to mention that it it insinuates that the CAA Flight Standards Inspector responsible for our approval also failed to do his job properly.
Please withdraw the comment or I will have the mods do so.
I also find your insinuation that the TRTO I work for is not reputable, offensive and libellous. Not to mention that it it insinuates that the CAA Flight Standards Inspector responsible for our approval also failed to do his job properly.
Please withdraw the comment or I will have the mods do so.
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Please withdraw the comment or I will have the mods do so.
Actually, bose, to be fair (that's twice today for me), I don't actually read DFC's post in the way that you seem to be doing.
I'm reading it that he agrees with you - you need a lot more experience than just a vanilla flavoured FI rating to take an HoT position anywhere worthwhile.
I read it that he is saying that *you have* that experience.
I most certainly do not believe he is suggesting that your operation is in any way substandard.
I could be wrong of course.
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Feel free to PM me DFC for details of the TRTO that I work for.
Keygrip, fine I will go with your interpretation and accept that DFC was being highly complimentary.
I fail to see what deserved an attack from my original post. I tried to give a real world answer to what looked like a genuine post from people interested in doing a CRI. Having been through that route over the years I thought I had some perspective?
Keygrip, fine I will go with your interpretation and accept that DFC was being highly complimentary.
I fail to see what deserved an attack from my original post. I tried to give a real world answer to what looked like a genuine post from people interested in doing a CRI. Having been through that route over the years I thought I had some perspective?
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Must admit that the response from DFC makes your interpretation look stronger than mine.
Mind you I liked your interpretation, it gave me a warm fuzzy glow to think that DFC recognised my shining light.......
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Must admit that the response from DFC makes your interpretation look stronger than mine.
My response refected the fact that it is not possible to "libellous" since neither I nor anyone else here as far as I am aware knows what TRTO Bose is HoT at.
I pointed out that if BOSE let us know what TRTO he was HoT at then perhaps it would fall in the reputable category and I would of course remove the comment as he would be correct to deem is unfair.
Again, just to fully clarify the position so that people are not misguided:
In respect of TRTO's;
The management structure shall ensure supervision of all grades of staff by persons having the experience and qualities necessary to ensure the maintenance of high standards
Therefore, it would be reasonable to expect that the HoT at a TRTO offering training for Multi Engine Turboprop aircraft would have extensive experience in similar aircraft and experience of the training involved so that they can correctly recruit, supervise, guide and manage both the experienced and the less experienced instructors who provide the training.
Being a CRI is a very rewarding and challenging position but not likely to be a road to HoT at a TRTO.
Regards,
DFC
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Wow!! Accusing me of lying!! I think that does count as libel!!
I should point out that despite my offer, DFC has failed to contact me privately as I offered, to discuss the details of the TRTO that I am head of training for.
A TRTO that I should point out has taken more than a year of hard work, writing training manuals, ops manuals and quality manuals as well as multiple exam sets and umpteen other things to meet the CAA requirements.
So therefore we should assume that his posts on this subject are just mischief making? Or shall we assume that DFC's simply wishes to demean the role of the CRI? Perhaps just being a frustrated FI himself in a dead end role?
Or am I to assume that he wishes me to post the TRTO details publicly? Tell you what DFC, you show me yours and I will show you mine, I am sure that I am not the only one on here fascinated to discover where your 'wealth' of experience comes from.......
But to go back to the original question about what the CRI can achieve, it is a very rewarding qualification and is perfectly acceptable as a qualification for those wanting to teach towards type ratings on single pilot aeroplanes as well as the usual differences and class rating training etc mentioned earlier.
So in answer to those original questions, go for it guys, the CRI is a wide and varied qualification that can set you on many interesting roads. If you find later that you want to become involved in the basic PPL stuff then you can always add an FI rating. The teaching experience you gain from CRI training will count immeasurably towards teaching as an FI.
I should point out that despite my offer, DFC has failed to contact me privately as I offered, to discuss the details of the TRTO that I am head of training for.
A TRTO that I should point out has taken more than a year of hard work, writing training manuals, ops manuals and quality manuals as well as multiple exam sets and umpteen other things to meet the CAA requirements.
So therefore we should assume that his posts on this subject are just mischief making? Or shall we assume that DFC's simply wishes to demean the role of the CRI? Perhaps just being a frustrated FI himself in a dead end role?
Or am I to assume that he wishes me to post the TRTO details publicly? Tell you what DFC, you show me yours and I will show you mine, I am sure that I am not the only one on here fascinated to discover where your 'wealth' of experience comes from.......
But to go back to the original question about what the CRI can achieve, it is a very rewarding qualification and is perfectly acceptable as a qualification for those wanting to teach towards type ratings on single pilot aeroplanes as well as the usual differences and class rating training etc mentioned earlier.
So in answer to those original questions, go for it guys, the CRI is a wide and varied qualification that can set you on many interesting roads. If you find later that you want to become involved in the basic PPL stuff then you can always add an FI rating. The teaching experience you gain from CRI training will count immeasurably towards teaching as an FI.
