ulster flying club laying off 15 instructors
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ulster flying club laying off 15 instructors
I was up in the North of Ireland recently and heard that the club had decided to get rid of their 15 mostly part time Fi's in favour of a full time newly qualified boy the CFI has taken a shine to. Looks like even the flying clubs with a bit of history are taking the ruthless approach.
I did my ppl there a few years ago and I had nothing but the highest regard for my instructors.
Not the place it used to be.
I did my ppl there a few years ago and I had nothing but the highest regard for my instructors.
Not the place it used to be.
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I'm currently training at UFC, nearing the end of my PPL. UFC is the largest flying school in Northern Ireland, but they do sometimes have problems with instructor availability. However I haven't heard anything about them replacing 15 part time FIs with one full time guy, will maybe find out when I'm down there at the weekend. Also I wouldn't have thought that just one instructor (plus the CFI) would be sufficient?
With the possible exception of one person with whom I only flew once I also have nothing but the highest regard for the quality of instruction I have had at the club. So not sure I can agree with "not the place it used to be", although I have only been there for 2 years.
Am aware it's April 1st BTW
With the possible exception of one person with whom I only flew once I also have nothing but the highest regard for the quality of instruction I have had at the club. So not sure I can agree with "not the place it used to be", although I have only been there for 2 years.
Am aware it's April 1st BTW
Last edited by madgav; 4th Apr 2009 at 21:07.
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I've been a member of the Ulster Flying Club for about 6 years. From when I joined until about 2 years ago there were two full time instructors (CFI + one other) plus a number of part time instructors. After the last full time instructor got a job flying jets (though thankfully he still instructs part time) the club didn't hire another full time instructor, instead the part time instructors covered the hours.
Now it looks like the club may return to having 2 full time instructors. The suggestion that 15 part time instructors will be laid off is, in my opinion, nonsense. There is no way one full time instructor could cover the hours of 15 part time. I would be surprised if any of the part time instructors are laid off.
As Nearly There points out, having another full time instructor will help with continuity of training.
Now it looks like the club may return to having 2 full time instructors. The suggestion that 15 part time instructors will be laid off is, in my opinion, nonsense. There is no way one full time instructor could cover the hours of 15 part time. I would be surprised if any of the part time instructors are laid off.
As Nearly There points out, having another full time instructor will help with continuity of training.
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Afraid it's all true... wish it was an april fools
I'm afraid dublinflyer is accurate in his assesment. I'm one of the 15 that are affected. I've been an instructor down at UFC for some years now and I can definately confirm there's a lot of ill feeling at the way this has been handled. Over the years I've juggled my days of full time work to help the club out when they were desperate for a QFI, I'm only one of many part timers that has received a call from Jan over the years, with her pleading for me to help her out. Let me just add that, it's Jan that runs that place, she's the one that knows the full score and doesn't get the credit she deserves.
Anyway, here we are in seriously difficult times in the avaition sector. A lot of guys out of work and now we find we have a oversupply of instructors. Too many instructors, not enough work.
You can now understand why so many guys are disappointed and annoyed, after helping this club out over so many years, now being cast aside and told we're surplus to requirements.
You also need to appreciate the unique situation of UFC. It has been the experienced Jet, turbo prop, business, cargo, etc pilots contributing there part time efforts to the club that has brought a rich experience. The part time FI's are there because they have a passion for passing on their vast experience, love teaching and giving something back. ( lets face it, you're definately not there for the money.)
I'm afraid that the real losers here will be the students and members who will be receiving their training from a newly arrived AFI with extremely limited experience.
The manner in which this has been rushed through, a lot of committee members "ignorant "of whats happening has left a bad taste. It has bordered on the illegal. The normal employment laws ignored. Hodgkinson and Harrison seem to be pulling all the strings.
Are there some very annoyed instructors down there, Absolutely. By the way, not one instructor was aware of what was happening until this new guy showed up. How's that for keeping your club members and instructors in the dark.
Here's one instructor that won't be rushing in when they're pleading for someone to come in and help.
Anyway, here we are in seriously difficult times in the avaition sector. A lot of guys out of work and now we find we have a oversupply of instructors. Too many instructors, not enough work.
You can now understand why so many guys are disappointed and annoyed, after helping this club out over so many years, now being cast aside and told we're surplus to requirements.
You also need to appreciate the unique situation of UFC. It has been the experienced Jet, turbo prop, business, cargo, etc pilots contributing there part time efforts to the club that has brought a rich experience. The part time FI's are there because they have a passion for passing on their vast experience, love teaching and giving something back. ( lets face it, you're definately not there for the money.)
I'm afraid that the real losers here will be the students and members who will be receiving their training from a newly arrived AFI with extremely limited experience.
The manner in which this has been rushed through, a lot of committee members "ignorant "of whats happening has left a bad taste. It has bordered on the illegal. The normal employment laws ignored. Hodgkinson and Harrison seem to be pulling all the strings.
Are there some very annoyed instructors down there, Absolutely. By the way, not one instructor was aware of what was happening until this new guy showed up. How's that for keeping your club members and instructors in the dark.
Here's one instructor that won't be rushing in when they're pleading for someone to come in and help.
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This is grim. As much as I want to go off on a rant, whats the point? I thought a new chairman might bring about good changes, but the Ulster Flying Club has a monopoly and due to the lack of competition there is little incentive to change the piss poor management and shocking working conditions.
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Doesn't sound to hopeful for me either. I am just about to embark on a FIC at Andrewsfield and hope to be complete in June. I trained at Newtownards and always wanted to attain a FI rating as I always aspired to be as good as the guys that taught me (they know who they are). I don't like to see them mistreated.
I now face doing all this and then getting very little hours - I would be happy with a few a weekend and for a half decent removal time of my FI(R) but I understand and respect the 'pecking order' and that I would be the new guy. It seems I'm the 'newer' guy and now further down the order than I thought but that's life I suppose. (shouldn't have wasted my dough on those expensive MEIR and MCC and just done CPL & FIC first!!!)
Ok I can't expect hours but a few would be nice - outlook=bleak, entusiam=low, more money for little gain ( but there's always the risks)
More fool me!
I now face doing all this and then getting very little hours - I would be happy with a few a weekend and for a half decent removal time of my FI(R) but I understand and respect the 'pecking order' and that I would be the new guy. It seems I'm the 'newer' guy and now further down the order than I thought but that's life I suppose. (shouldn't have wasted my dough on those expensive MEIR and MCC and just done CPL & FIC first!!!)
Ok I can't expect hours but a few would be nice - outlook=bleak, entusiam=low, more money for little gain ( but there's always the risks)
More fool me!
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NOT true, apparently
Well I was down at the club today and talked with my instructor about this. Apparently there *is* a new part time AFI joining the club, but he is not being taken on full time. And the club will continue to use the services of its existing part time FIs.
The numbers don't seem to add up. How could one full time FI take the place of 15 part time FIs? Not when 3 instructors sometimes fly at once! And what about holidays/sickness - who covers for that?
The numbers don't seem to add up. How could one full time FI take the place of 15 part time FIs? Not when 3 instructors sometimes fly at once! And what about holidays/sickness - who covers for that?
Last edited by madgav; 6th Apr 2009 at 22:35.
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I'm missed??? Wonders will never cease! As much as I love home and flying from Ards, working for another club in England has well and truely opened my eyes.
I don't understand why part timers are being pushed out.... some don't fly for months and only come in when needed, with no committment to or from the club. What is the benefit of getting rid of instructors who only work when needed? Surely thats what any company needs?
Hope everyone is doing well and hope the UFC gets its act together..... if there is a full time FI and the post hasn't been advertised there may be legal issues?
I don't understand why part timers are being pushed out.... some don't fly for months and only come in when needed, with no committment to or from the club. What is the benefit of getting rid of instructors who only work when needed? Surely thats what any company needs?
Hope everyone is doing well and hope the UFC gets its act together..... if there is a full time FI and the post hasn't been advertised there may be legal issues?
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Wow, I didn't anticipate such a response. Just happened to pass comment on the dealings of a major flying club in Ireland who I felt was treating some of their employees pretty shabbily and was defending some flight instructors with whom I have the upmost respect for.
Sure there's loads of people sadly losing their jobs at the moment,just look at bombadier this week. It's a blood bath down south of the border as well. My comment was simple... It's sad to see, especially when you weigh the numbers involved, be it 15 or 1000.
Sure there's loads of people sadly losing their jobs at the moment,just look at bombadier this week. It's a blood bath down south of the border as well. My comment was simple... It's sad to see, especially when you weigh the numbers involved, be it 15 or 1000.
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I personally hope it is a load of stir over nothing. I've got to know many of these guys pretty well over the months/years and have a lot of respect for them. It's been a privelige to benefit from their collective experience and I would hate to see something like this happen to them.
Last edited by madgav; 4th Apr 2009 at 21:06. Reason: Remove references to U220's posts, which seem to have disappeared!!!
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Clarification of the situation now on UFC forum
The Ulster Flying Club • View topic - Anyone know anything about this?
Ties up with what I was told yesterday, apparently.
Ties up with what I was told yesterday, apparently.
Last edited by madgav; 6th Apr 2009 at 22:35.
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read it before you comment
cows getting bigger states that the guys make them selves look like a bunch of ametures,firstly can i ask what flying qualifications you have before you make that comment.The guys down at ards do an amazing job flying various students over hundreds of hours and every student that goes through ards flying club and has been trained by one of their instructors have passed the ppl test first time everytime so how can that make ametures.
As for the goings on i will have to agree with the guys, morale is low because some guy has been brought in through the back door so to speak
bosses at the club are getting themselves tied in knots because the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing they tell one person one thing and then go tell the complete opposite thus forgetting what they have said, Albert ya need to sort it mate,where did the new instructor originate from? as far as im led to believe he just appeared now he is doing the paperwork and things that a cfi should be doing and may i ad being arrogant with comments to students and how long has he been there? a week some what confusing isn't it the instructors at ards are by far the best around and have gave up countless hours of there own time to come and help out people who have an interest in flying and would like to someday get to the stage that those guys are at.I for one am proud to say i know the guys down there and each and every one of them do a fantastic job KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK MEN!!
it just remains to say take a meeting with the cfi and head men and blow it all in the air and see where ya all stand and if needs be go down the legal route
GOOD LUCK AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
As for the goings on i will have to agree with the guys, morale is low because some guy has been brought in through the back door so to speak
bosses at the club are getting themselves tied in knots because the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing they tell one person one thing and then go tell the complete opposite thus forgetting what they have said, Albert ya need to sort it mate,where did the new instructor originate from? as far as im led to believe he just appeared now he is doing the paperwork and things that a cfi should be doing and may i ad being arrogant with comments to students and how long has he been there? a week some what confusing isn't it the instructors at ards are by far the best around and have gave up countless hours of there own time to come and help out people who have an interest in flying and would like to someday get to the stage that those guys are at.I for one am proud to say i know the guys down there and each and every one of them do a fantastic job KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK MEN!!
it just remains to say take a meeting with the cfi and head men and blow it all in the air and see where ya all stand and if needs be go down the legal route
GOOD LUCK AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
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you know wHo
I did some ppl training there a few years ago with Ronnie (remember him who's face did not fit with you know wHo) anyway he appeared to be forced out by you know wHo, who was more interested in talking to me than flying with me (ok so I'm blond and perhaps he thought I should be lap dancing not flying) so I went to another school and completed.
There was always enough a$$h0les around Newtownards to ensure that when things were going well they could step in and upset things.
Sad to say but it is a bit like many a golf club, the people who should run things are kept out by a few people who have this ambition to be seen and heard and tell everyone how much they know. Well all I can say that in the last few years as a corporate jet pilot I am glad I moved on from you know wHo, who is probabily still in that dangerous time in a pilots life where he does not know what he does not know.
Anyway good luck boys, have some huggs and kisses from a local blond who moved on.
D xoxoxo
There was always enough a$$h0les around Newtownards to ensure that when things were going well they could step in and upset things.
Sad to say but it is a bit like many a golf club, the people who should run things are kept out by a few people who have this ambition to be seen and heard and tell everyone how much they know. Well all I can say that in the last few years as a corporate jet pilot I am glad I moved on from you know wHo, who is probabily still in that dangerous time in a pilots life where he does not know what he does not know.
Anyway good luck boys, have some huggs and kisses from a local blond who moved on.
D xoxoxo
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Your Right
I agree with cant fly wont fly. Dawmb know what who your talking about. Folks its not all the committee, but unless they know they cant do anything. Club members there is power in numbers . I have heard so many people say they know this and that, and continue to bury there heads in the sand. We are just as guilty are we not. I leave this quote think about it.
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.