March 2009 - Instructing - what are we all getting paid
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March 2009 - Instructing - what are we all getting paid
Hello all,
I am aware that threads regarding income have been and gone.
I am led to believe the instructing market right now is pretty bad. Plenty of FI's but not enough positions to fill. Is this true and across the UK has it eroded the salarys and hourly rates? I am a busy PPL FI but would like to know the existing incomes for folk as I am being told by the boss that he can get FI's for free (whoever you are, please DO NOT devalue us and prostitute yourselves for nothing
) which is effecting my income now.
Also what is the going rate for CPL instructors across the UK? A quick idea would really help.
thanks
I am aware that threads regarding income have been and gone.
I am led to believe the instructing market right now is pretty bad. Plenty of FI's but not enough positions to fill. Is this true and across the UK has it eroded the salarys and hourly rates? I am a busy PPL FI but would like to know the existing incomes for folk as I am being told by the boss that he can get FI's for free (whoever you are, please DO NOT devalue us and prostitute yourselves for nothing
) which is effecting my income now.Also what is the going rate for CPL instructors across the UK? A quick idea would really help.
thanks
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PPL FI: variable, but a good average is £25/day retainer and £15-17/hour for normal VFR day/night instructing.
CPL: again depends on experience, but most seem to be salaried at at least £21000/year. Bigger schools pay more but also have more formalities to cope with!
CPL: again depends on experience, but most seem to be salaried at at least £21000/year. Bigger schools pay more but also have more formalities to cope with!
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Surprised this thread hasn't taken off in the current climate, perhaps people don't want to display their income!
A friend of mine gets £20/hr teaching PPL with £200/week retainer, another gets no retainer and £25/hr. They are in opposite ends of the country and get 40-50hrs on a decent month.
Anyone offering to work for free at the expense of people who do it for a living should take a long hard look at themselves.
A friend of mine gets £20/hr teaching PPL with £200/week retainer, another gets no retainer and £25/hr. They are in opposite ends of the country and get 40-50hrs on a decent month.
Anyone offering to work for free at the expense of people who do it for a living should take a long hard look at themselves.
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Lets say you were offered £900 retainer a month and £15 per hour to instruct for the CPL would you take it??
Was thinking of doing this despite having a 737 TR and looking for work with no success
Was thinking of doing this despite having a 737 TR and looking for work with no success
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Iron Horse
Teaching SEP CPL either:
a. £15k basic for up to 35 hrs per month, plus £21 per hr bonus after that (average 55 hrs a month but often no bonus during the winter); or,
b. no salary but £35 for each hr of flying with min payment of 1.5 hrs per day if no flying possible.
Hope that helps.
Teaching SEP CPL either:
a. £15k basic for up to 35 hrs per month, plus £21 per hr bonus after that (average 55 hrs a month but often no bonus during the winter); or,
b. no salary but £35 for each hr of flying with min payment of 1.5 hrs per day if no flying possible.
Hope that helps.
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Lets say you were offered £900 retainer a month and £15 per hour to instruct for the CPL would you take it??
Was thinking of doing this despite having a 737 TR and looking for work with no success
Was thinking of doing this despite having a 737 TR and looking for work with no success
You are the only one who knows your own circumstances. You are the only one who knows which school have made the offer. You are the only one who can compare the offer to what you're currently earning. You're the only one who can compare the working environment to where you currently work.
Guess who's the only one who can really answer your question......simples!
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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What you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabouts in this game.
Your own personal financial circumstances and motivation to fly are the easiest ways of answering the question.
Play safe and take the high retainer to afford some peace of mind in the winter?
Or...
Go balls out and reap the higher pay in the summer by flying your backside off?
Once you have over 1000 hours in the logbook I defy anyone to say they still have that same high motivation to get in the air, especially if an airline job is their ultimate aim. In my short time as an instructor I have learnt to spot the tell tale signs of battle fatigue a mile off!
I opted for the risk averse option from day one.
VFE.
Your own personal financial circumstances and motivation to fly are the easiest ways of answering the question.
Play safe and take the high retainer to afford some peace of mind in the winter?
Or...
Go balls out and reap the higher pay in the summer by flying your backside off?
Once you have over 1000 hours in the logbook I defy anyone to say they still have that same high motivation to get in the air, especially if an airline job is their ultimate aim. In my short time as an instructor I have learnt to spot the tell tale signs of battle fatigue a mile off!
I opted for the risk averse option from day one.
VFE.
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FI Pay
Hi there.
What I am up against is retired airline and RAF pilots who just do the odd half day, perhaps 1.5 hrs flying, when it doesnt clash with taking "her in" down to the garden centre.
If FIs start doing it for free they will damage the whole industry...
What I am up against is retired airline and RAF pilots who just do the odd half day, perhaps 1.5 hrs flying, when it doesnt clash with taking "her in" down to the garden centre.
If FIs start doing it for free they will damage the whole industry...
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Low hour self Employed FI(R) working at two schools.
1st school. No retainer, £25/hour.
2nd school. No retainer, £16/hour.
There is very little work out there. I need the hours.
1st school. No retainer, £25/hour.
2nd school. No retainer, £16/hour.
There is very little work out there. I need the hours.
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Salaried PPL instructor at a modular FTO - £13k pa, rising to £16k pa after successful probation (currently six months), plus £6 ph flying pay.
Flying hours vary - flew about 35 hours in Jan and Feb (aiming for 50+ hrs pcm), but also deliver PPL groundschool around flying duties.
Friends and family occasionally question my sanity for working for this amount, but the deal's not bad given the current state of the industry.
HW
Flying hours vary - flew about 35 hours in Jan and Feb (aiming for 50+ hrs pcm), but also deliver PPL groundschool around flying duties.
Friends and family occasionally question my sanity for working for this amount, but the deal's not bad given the current state of the industry.
HW
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Flygirl 001,
Yeah my friends and family question my sanity, and so did I to begin with, but when I slip on top (oi behave!) on a grey morning and see the smile on the punters face it somehow seems to pale into insignificance what is actually in my bank account and is precisely the reason retired airline pilots and RAF crew still prefer to get away from "her in" years after most other professional types have retired and are out creating golfing widows.
Build up some hours and move on to the next job up and stroll back into the flying club years later with a fresh outlook on the world and instruct for fun. Salaries are what kill flying schools and although I'm on the payrole I can clearly see my position is vulnerable for all the reasons above. Last thing ya wanna do is get a chip on your shoulder about it... do the odd bit and keep smiling. Life is too short. Hours will come eventually and anything over 1000 in your logbook on small aircraft makes little difference so unless you plan to move onto more advance teaching it's a waste of time hammering it out like a freshly minted FI. Smell the roses.... go with the flow... if there's one thing my 'career' has taught me so far it is to take things as they come because planning gets you nowhere when lady luck plays such a big part.
VFE.
Yeah my friends and family question my sanity, and so did I to begin with, but when I slip on top (oi behave!) on a grey morning and see the smile on the punters face it somehow seems to pale into insignificance what is actually in my bank account and is precisely the reason retired airline pilots and RAF crew still prefer to get away from "her in" years after most other professional types have retired and are out creating golfing widows.
Build up some hours and move on to the next job up and stroll back into the flying club years later with a fresh outlook on the world and instruct for fun. Salaries are what kill flying schools and although I'm on the payrole I can clearly see my position is vulnerable for all the reasons above. Last thing ya wanna do is get a chip on your shoulder about it... do the odd bit and keep smiling. Life is too short. Hours will come eventually and anything over 1000 in your logbook on small aircraft makes little difference so unless you plan to move onto more advance teaching it's a waste of time hammering it out like a freshly minted FI. Smell the roses.... go with the flow... if there's one thing my 'career' has taught me so far it is to take things as they come because planning gets you nowhere when lady luck plays such a big part.
VFE.
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Professional Salaries
intercokpit in croatia 4000 euro netto per month.
at Lund university in sweden 2500 euro netto per month.
these figure are based on 40 hours phisical presence at the fto per week.
May be if all the instructor would be so united to stick to fixed salaries or nothing the category would improve.
at Lund university in sweden 2500 euro netto per month.
these figure are based on 40 hours phisical presence at the fto per week.
May be if all the instructor would be so united to stick to fixed salaries or nothing the category would improve.
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Here I wonder
What would it be like if space pilots came down to earth to fly 737's just for fun and free.
Assuming that in the near future we will have that sort around.
1/60
Assuming that in the near future we will have that sort around.
1/60
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I am not going to give amounts but I think I am extremely lucky as an instructor. My boss believes in retaining his team and pays them well. I have all my ratings renewed and paid for by the school, have a company pension plus a retainer/hourly rate that is fantastic for PPL instruction. I wish that the wages were more even throughout the UK. Its very sad to see how very little people are getting paid especially as a full time PPL instructor wage is still half the national average for a full time wage
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I qualified as a driving instructor a few years back, it costs around £2900 now, earnings are often quoted as being circa £30k in the TV adverts, what they dont tell you though is outgoings for car, student no-shows, fuel, insurance etc etc, and the training is around 10 days in total from the college, majority of it is self study at home or buddy system in your own car!
Its a lot of money for very little instruction, they just guide you really as to what to practice in the car, and no end of feedback style questions to test your own knowledge.
Plus the test fees on top, licence application etc not as expensive as what our lovely CAA charge, but still adds up to hundreds.
The FIC is much better value for money like for like, when you way up what it can lead to, and the hours in the log book if thats what your looking for, is worth £80-£100 per hour if you purchased them yourself.
Its a lot of money for very little instruction, they just guide you really as to what to practice in the car, and no end of feedback style questions to test your own knowledge.
Plus the test fees on top, licence application etc not as expensive as what our lovely CAA charge, but still adds up to hundreds.
The FIC is much better value for money like for like, when you way up what it can lead to, and the hours in the log book if thats what your looking for, is worth £80-£100 per hour if you purchased them yourself.
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The Usual Trik
NEARLY THERE , you are very smart in using the usual trik of the logged hours but the true about it is:
IN AIRLINE OR CARGO OR AEROTAXI OR ANY PAID TRANSPORT BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT NOBODY GIVES ANY IMPORTANCE TO SINGLE ENGINE HOURS AS FI
the only one who makes money is the renter of the aircraft
I suspect that you are in busines with a flying school, may be you have one and hires FI with this usual trik
I have a policy : if I have to work as FI must be good monies:
as employed fixed salary based on 40 hours phisical presence per week at the FTO and I do not care what I have to do in those hours ( flying, cleaning, desk job, killing people, no wait, for that I get paid more) as long as I get paid netto in my hands every month at least 2500 euro netto clean in my hands plus benefit ( pensions and more)
as freelancer 1 euro or GBP per minute from when I show up until I get dismissed netto clean in my hands
May be if all FI would apply this all united , and believe me after the first week no aircraft flies, WE ALL WILL HAVE A BETTER LIVING
Do not fall for the fact that you log hours because at any selection the people who hires do not consider FI hous on single engine, not even on ME, and FI hours do not make you any better HANDLING pilot
IN AIRLINE OR CARGO OR AEROTAXI OR ANY PAID TRANSPORT BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT NOBODY GIVES ANY IMPORTANCE TO SINGLE ENGINE HOURS AS FI
the only one who makes money is the renter of the aircraft
I suspect that you are in busines with a flying school, may be you have one and hires FI with this usual trik
I have a policy : if I have to work as FI must be good monies:
as employed fixed salary based on 40 hours phisical presence per week at the FTO and I do not care what I have to do in those hours ( flying, cleaning, desk job, killing people, no wait, for that I get paid more) as long as I get paid netto in my hands every month at least 2500 euro netto clean in my hands plus benefit ( pensions and more)
as freelancer 1 euro or GBP per minute from when I show up until I get dismissed netto clean in my hands
May be if all FI would apply this all united , and believe me after the first week no aircraft flies, WE ALL WILL HAVE A BETTER LIVING
Do not fall for the fact that you log hours because at any selection the people who hires do not consider FI hous on single engine, not even on ME, and FI hours do not make you any better HANDLING pilot
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RSFTO, thanks for recognising me as a smart chap, but you have me wrong, I am currently training towards the FI rating and not linked to any schools.
I have to disagree with you here, I dont know where you are from, but in the UK, I worked in ops for a freight company and FOs mainly came from an instructing and some times air taxi background, from there I moved onto a FTO and air taxi company working in ops, there air taxi pilots again came from the flying school or from other schools where they had been working as instructors.
The market is slow at the moment, but instructors are recognised over the 250 hour fATPL holder, and Im sure there are many examples of the success of such on here who will hopefully back up my observations.
IN AIRLINE OR CARGO OR AEROTAXI OR ANY PAID TRANSPORT BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT NOBODY GIVES ANY IMPORTANCE TO SINGLE ENGINE HOURS AS FI
The market is slow at the moment, but instructors are recognised over the 250 hour fATPL holder, and Im sure there are many examples of the success of such on here who will hopefully back up my observations.