Unprepared students
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Unprepared students
I'm finishing up my CFI, and was on the computer at my flight school last week. There was one of my former CFIs teaching Cross Country planning and flying to a student. It was obvious that the student didn't study for the ground lesson.
How can I deal with an unprepared student with out chasing them away? I can either be willing to spoon feed them the info for endless hours (just to get paid) and not give a sign off 'till I feel that they're prepared. Or I can tell them to not waste my time and come back when they're better prepared. Other options?
How can I deal with an unprepared student with out chasing them away? I can either be willing to spoon feed them the info for endless hours (just to get paid) and not give a sign off 'till I feel that they're prepared. Or I can tell them to not waste my time and come back when they're better prepared. Other options?
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Well, if you're always polite and courteous you won't drive them away. Perhaps if they are actually paying you for your time on the ground (not always the case), just keep taking their money and smiling! Some people just won't or can't study by themselves.
If you're not being paid to spend this time with them, well I suppose it's more difficult.
If you're not being paid to spend this time with them, well I suppose it's more difficult.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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If nav planning, sometimes even in this day and age, some people don't have access to computers therefore have to finish the planning 'in the office'. I have no problem with this.
If a student isn't prepared for the nav lesson then I'll get them to plan while I engage in other things then when they've finished I ask them for the planned fligth time and fuel requirements. Then, innocently, ask them what time they've booked there lesson until. Square pegs / round holes. Doesn't happen that often now!
If a student isn't prepared for the nav lesson then I'll get them to plan while I engage in other things then when they've finished I ask them for the planned fligth time and fuel requirements. Then, innocently, ask them what time they've booked there lesson until. Square pegs / round holes. Doesn't happen that often now!
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If you're being paid, then IMHO you should simply say to the stude that he would probably get more out of the time spent on the ground if he had prepared beforehand.
Most students will turn up at some point with inadequate preparation - so I would cut them some slack occasionally.
There might be a downside to putting him off. If he votes with his feet to go elsewhere after you have "discouraged" him - and then writes to the boss of the school saying he left to take his business elsewhere due to a personality clash with you. You might then have some explaining to do.
And as we head deeper into recession, you might be grateful for having your time wasted, but at least it was time you got paid for.
Most students will turn up at some point with inadequate preparation - so I would cut them some slack occasionally.
There might be a downside to putting him off. If he votes with his feet to go elsewhere after you have "discouraged" him - and then writes to the boss of the school saying he left to take his business elsewhere due to a personality clash with you. You might then have some explaining to do.
And as we head deeper into recession, you might be grateful for having your time wasted, but at least it was time you got paid for.
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If they are repeat offenders who expect to be spoon fed they need to learn what will happen the day you are not there, test day. A little scare now and then might help.
In the meantime take the opportunity to introduce your one-time-only-offer-super-duper-one-on-one-ground school which, for a reasonable fee, entails you teaching them what they seem to be too lazy to learn themselves.
In the meantime take the opportunity to introduce your one-time-only-offer-super-duper-one-on-one-ground school which, for a reasonable fee, entails you teaching them what they seem to be too lazy to learn themselves.
D SQDRN
Hopefully, as an Instructor, you would have long ago spoken to someone else about this Stude – fellow Instructors and, finally, the Boss/CFI. Often a chat with the CFI helps focus attention.
As D_D says, Nav lessons always seem to be the problem where basic planning is not carried out at all, or they come in too late to even put the wind on, let alone look at NOTAMS etc. I have had the odd case like this long after the initial “dual” nav planning stage. If the “planning in the lesson – no time left to fly” trick did not work, I just booked them in 2-3 hours before we were due to fly – then flew with my “actual student” after ensuring the Nav student was up and running with Charts et al on the ground.
In one case I well recall, one particularly “bad” student soon took it upon himself to arrive a good couple of hours early without me asking. In most cases they want to plan – just kids, wives, boyfriends, work etc get in the way. He needed the excuse/ability to escape for some peace and quiet. Guess he just blamed it on his ugly, slave-driving Instructor!
and then writes to the boss of the school saying he left to take his business elsewhere due to a personality clash with you. You might then have some explaining to do
As D_D says, Nav lessons always seem to be the problem where basic planning is not carried out at all, or they come in too late to even put the wind on, let alone look at NOTAMS etc. I have had the odd case like this long after the initial “dual” nav planning stage. If the “planning in the lesson – no time left to fly” trick did not work, I just booked them in 2-3 hours before we were due to fly – then flew with my “actual student” after ensuring the Nav student was up and running with Charts et al on the ground.
In one case I well recall, one particularly “bad” student soon took it upon himself to arrive a good couple of hours early without me asking. In most cases they want to plan – just kids, wives, boyfriends, work etc get in the way. He needed the excuse/ability to escape for some peace and quiet. Guess he just blamed it on his ugly, slave-driving Instructor!
Just keep taking their money till they wake up or leave Not really your problem
I tell them " you're here to learn but since you pay me I'll take your money"- it's a hustle baby
PA
don't shoot -I give!!!
I tell them " you're here to learn but since you pay me I'll take your money"- it's a hustle baby
PA
don't shoot -I give!!!
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It's obvious
You just teach them nav, charge them for it of course. What's the point of doing a nav if you haven't planned it?
I try my bloody best not to erupt if they show up with no winds still in the plan. Despite telling them where they can find it etc.
However some decided to show up EXTREMELY early to get the winds which in my book is fine as their lesson doesn't start for another 1 hour or so.
IF you mean someone isn't planning anything at all... well that shows they need help. Maybe they read the book but couldn't really figure it out etc.
If it's the same person that repeatedly doesn't plan... then you have to start suggesting they pick up their act.
"you know John... we can go over this nav again but it would save you a bit if you recorded it etc"
If means they need to record it via camera or whatever, go for it.
1/60
I try my bloody best not to erupt if they show up with no winds still in the plan. Despite telling them where they can find it etc.
However some decided to show up EXTREMELY early to get the winds which in my book is fine as their lesson doesn't start for another 1 hour or so.
IF you mean someone isn't planning anything at all... well that shows they need help. Maybe they read the book but couldn't really figure it out etc.
If it's the same person that repeatedly doesn't plan... then you have to start suggesting they pick up their act.
"you know John... we can go over this nav again but it would save you a bit if you recorded it etc"
If means they need to record it via camera or whatever, go for it.
1/60
Having a reputation as a demanding instructor is IMO a good thing. I set high but fair standards and was very clear about what I expected. I was not shy about indicating my disappointment when students did not prepare (special one off circumstances excepted). The good news from my POV is the keen students tended to gravitate my way and the tossers picked other instructors. I will caveat this by saying I worked at a large school so there was a big pool of instructors and I had an "old school" method Chief Flying Instructor.
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Flight instruction is a service you provide.
For a fee albeit.
So the student, our customer, decides how he wants to spend his/her money.
It is my oppinion we should stop calling ourselves instructors, and think about us as "learning facilitators".
The latter does not lead to dented egos if a student is not learning the way he is "supposed to"
For a fee albeit.
So the student, our customer, decides how he wants to spend his/her money.
It is my oppinion we should stop calling ourselves instructors, and think about us as "learning facilitators".
The latter does not lead to dented egos if a student is not learning the way he is "supposed to"
Fakawi
Feel free to call yourself a learning faciliator, I am and will remain a "flight" instructor. The only thing I "facilitate" in my students, is the connection between the attainment of strong flight skills, knowledge, and airmanship.... and remaining alive.
Feel free to call yourself a learning faciliator, I am and will remain a "flight" instructor. The only thing I "facilitate" in my students, is the connection between the attainment of strong flight skills, knowledge, and airmanship.... and remaining alive.
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Having a reputation as a demanding instructor is IMO a good thing.
I have to agree with Big Pistons, to be successful and really teach your students you have to be demanding. I personally have a ground school developed with a flight syllabus that is basically a method of tracking progress (the Jeppson syllabus spread out a little more). If they don't do their homework I will give them a pass pending the circumstances, but if they do it often I sit with them and we brief and fly for maybe 30 minutes. Do that a couple times and they either a, won't come back which is good cause they would be a dangerous pilot if you held their hand till they got the ticket or b, study up and be a great student. I find more often than not they go to b and I work at a small (under 10 CFIs) school.
Remember holding someone’s hand through the course can often put an unsafe pilot on your ticket. Make people do the required work; both ground and flight, to be well rounded good pilots.
Enjoy it
~Brian
