new instructor advice
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new instructor advice
Just passed my ride today and was wondering what pieces of advice would you give to a new FI now that the real learning begins....
Just passed my ride today and was wondering what pieces of advice would you give to a new FI now that the real learning begins....
When instructing an elderly farmer, low and slow on finals is NOT the place to improve your education. ( I know - nearly broke his wrist, I did)
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Assumption is the mother of all.....
Leave your charges to make the mistake unless it is dangerous or illegal to continue.
Don't ever be surprised by the things that they come up with to try and kill you. I am not suggesting that students plot ways to kill instructors but you do sometimes forget how easy it is and almost get lulled into a false sense of security before the fuel gets turned off on approach.
Don't be afraid to ask other instructors i spent my first few years asking questions every day, some instructors even laughed at me for doing so but i would rather that than not have the consensus and then be able to make up my own mind, the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask.
Lastly but not leastly don't assume. If you must make one assumption make it that everything that the student has checked or prepared is wrong. Take your own map and do the checks yourself however experienced the student.
Can't go far wrong with that lot. Welcome to the community of instructors and congratulations on passing your test.
VT
Don't ever be surprised by the things that they come up with to try and kill you. I am not suggesting that students plot ways to kill instructors but you do sometimes forget how easy it is and almost get lulled into a false sense of security before the fuel gets turned off on approach.
Don't be afraid to ask other instructors i spent my first few years asking questions every day, some instructors even laughed at me for doing so but i would rather that than not have the consensus and then be able to make up my own mind, the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask.
Lastly but not leastly don't assume. If you must make one assumption make it that everything that the student has checked or prepared is wrong. Take your own map and do the checks yourself however experienced the student.
Can't go far wrong with that lot. Welcome to the community of instructors and congratulations on passing your test.
VT
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New Instructor Advice
Canadapilot:
My instructing career started at the lowest grade and progressed up to the highest grade. It was a great part of my experience.
The best advice that I can give, is do not talk too much when instructing in the air. Use an "audio visual" approach, only speak when the Trainee can see what you are talking about. eg." using back pressure on the control coluum raises the nose", so that he/she can see the result of an action.
Many Instructors talk about unrelated issues while the student is trying to cope.
Hope this helps.
Tmb
My instructing career started at the lowest grade and progressed up to the highest grade. It was a great part of my experience.
The best advice that I can give, is do not talk too much when instructing in the air. Use an "audio visual" approach, only speak when the Trainee can see what you are talking about. eg." using back pressure on the control coluum raises the nose", so that he/she can see the result of an action.
Many Instructors talk about unrelated issues while the student is trying to cope.
Hope this helps.
Tmb
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Very good advice Tmbstory.
Many blabber on about RT/Radio Nav/ and other different scenarios whilst the student is focusing all their energies on flying the aircraft.
Another common boo-boo is overdoing the briefing. I see some instructors who might be experienced professional fliers dabbling in instruction on their days off who will rabbit on incessantly at a student for an hour or more before flight as though they're briefing their captain on a transatlantic crossing. Of course, how much of what they're saying is actually going into the students head is debatable, suffice to say it falls under short-term memory and as such will soon be overwritten. The student may nod accordingly but "yessing" is a common problem among people wishing to curry favour with someone they respect, such as an instructor, and I normally get to hear the students true thoughts after experiencing one or two of those guilty types!
Many spare time instructors are guilty of this understandable mistake born from lack of empathy so beware of the huge divide between your level of understanding born from experience and that of the student. Do not fall into the trap of thinking you're in danger of being viewed as pompous by avoiding certain questions until a more appropriate time. A knowledgeable pilot does not always make a good instructor.
VFE.
Many blabber on about RT/Radio Nav/ and other different scenarios whilst the student is focusing all their energies on flying the aircraft.
Another common boo-boo is overdoing the briefing. I see some instructors who might be experienced professional fliers dabbling in instruction on their days off who will rabbit on incessantly at a student for an hour or more before flight as though they're briefing their captain on a transatlantic crossing. Of course, how much of what they're saying is actually going into the students head is debatable, suffice to say it falls under short-term memory and as such will soon be overwritten. The student may nod accordingly but "yessing" is a common problem among people wishing to curry favour with someone they respect, such as an instructor, and I normally get to hear the students true thoughts after experiencing one or two of those guilty types!
Many spare time instructors are guilty of this understandable mistake born from lack of empathy so beware of the huge divide between your level of understanding born from experience and that of the student. Do not fall into the trap of thinking you're in danger of being viewed as pompous by avoiding certain questions until a more appropriate time. A knowledgeable pilot does not always make a good instructor.
VFE.
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VFE the preflight briefing should be covering material that the student has spent a few hours at home going over prior to flying.
It should be the material that they were advised to learn from their flying trg handbook that YOU gave them at the end of the last exercise.
Their should be no possibility of the student having not understood everything you have said in the briefing as you should test that knowledge by asking simple related questions. i.e. so Bloggs you have set you PAT and the aircraft settles at 80kts what would you do to correct this to the 90 we talked about.
Many spare time instructors are indeed current airline pilots. Most of them were full time instructors before becoming airline pilots and many more do it now because they love it not because they have to to build hours to get the job they already have. I know not if you are a career instructor or not but you come across as a little bitter about airline pilots. Have we upset you some how?
Briefing the student thoroughly saves them from asking questions about theory in the air when they are paying through the nose for it. If you have to brief for hours then either then student has been lazy and not read the exercises before they arrived or you have not done your job and given them the next exercise prior to them coming in (unless of course it is the long briefing prior to CCTS, NAV or INSTR phases)
I also can't help but notice that you original advice and welcome to Canadapilot was "do a search"! If this is any indication of your empathy then heavens help your students....
It should be the material that they were advised to learn from their flying trg handbook that YOU gave them at the end of the last exercise.
Their should be no possibility of the student having not understood everything you have said in the briefing as you should test that knowledge by asking simple related questions. i.e. so Bloggs you have set you PAT and the aircraft settles at 80kts what would you do to correct this to the 90 we talked about.
Many spare time instructors are indeed current airline pilots. Most of them were full time instructors before becoming airline pilots and many more do it now because they love it not because they have to to build hours to get the job they already have. I know not if you are a career instructor or not but you come across as a little bitter about airline pilots. Have we upset you some how?
Briefing the student thoroughly saves them from asking questions about theory in the air when they are paying through the nose for it. If you have to brief for hours then either then student has been lazy and not read the exercises before they arrived or you have not done your job and given them the next exercise prior to them coming in (unless of course it is the long briefing prior to CCTS, NAV or INSTR phases)
I also can't help but notice that you original advice and welcome to Canadapilot was "do a search"! If this is any indication of your empathy then heavens help your students....
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It was good advice - that question has been raised many times with some very in depth repsonses over the years (including one from me) but I doubt many will have the inclination to trot out the same stuff over and over again, granted some do but one learns to tune out their noise after a while...
VFE.
VFE.
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You started it
Didn't stop you putting your 2 penneth worth in two posts ago now did it?
Somehow did get you to avoid the accusation that you seem to have a bit of a lack of empathy towards fellow professional pilots who fly airliners as well as instruct!
Your implication is that only "part time" instructors make these errors. care to comment or would you prefer to try and change the subject lest someone see through your clear unfounded bias?
Somehow did get you to avoid the accusation that you seem to have a bit of a lack of empathy towards fellow professional pilots who fly airliners as well as instruct!
Your implication is that only "part time" instructors make these errors. care to comment or would you prefer to try and change the subject lest someone see through your clear unfounded bias?
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I apologise if my implication was that only part-time instructors make errors but my firm belief is that we can become rusty very quickly when it comes to instructing. Correct patter is usually the first to fall by the wayside, followed by knowledge of the syllabus.
Seeing as you are obviously probing for some controversy Mr.VT - ask me who would I sooner recommend learning to fly with - someone who instructs at a flying school on days off from their full time job or, a full-time career instructor at the school.
VFE.
Seeing as you are obviously probing for some controversy Mr.VT - ask me who would I sooner recommend learning to fly with - someone who instructs at a flying school on days off from their full time job or, a full-time career instructor at the school.
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Enjoy it. I know I do. Every day.
The night circuits, the (unintentional) spins, the view, the smell of 100LL, the students, the bad pay,...
To quote the movie "Jarhead"
"I could be working with my brother right now. He's got a dry-wall business in Compton. Does the inside of office buildings; you know, the metal studs. I could be his partner, said he'd give me that brand new Dodge Ram Charger. You know, the 318 Magnum? The beast? All indoor work, too, lots of AC. I could sleep with my wife every night, f@#k her, maybe; take my kids to school every morning. And I'd run his crews, too, probably increase productivity 40 to 50%. Make $100K a year. Do you know why I don't? Because I love this job. I thank God for every f.....g day he gives me in the air, oorah. "
The night circuits, the (unintentional) spins, the view, the smell of 100LL, the students, the bad pay,...
To quote the movie "Jarhead"
"I could be working with my brother right now. He's got a dry-wall business in Compton. Does the inside of office buildings; you know, the metal studs. I could be his partner, said he'd give me that brand new Dodge Ram Charger. You know, the 318 Magnum? The beast? All indoor work, too, lots of AC. I could sleep with my wife every night, f@#k her, maybe; take my kids to school every morning. And I'd run his crews, too, probably increase productivity 40 to 50%. Make $100K a year. Do you know why I don't? Because I love this job. I thank God for every f.....g day he gives me in the air, oorah. "
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Would you like chips with that?
I think you'll find that those of us who are airline pilots are professional pilots, those who are military pilots are also professional pilots and those instructing are also professional pilots.
We all fly in the same airspace, using the same laws, the same R/T. Some of us even instruct in sims as well as in light aircraft. Instruction is instruction, I have personally carried out instruction in many disciplines from 1st aid, to mountain leadership, to shooting, to skiing and many of the things that I have or do instruct in use very similar pattern.
EDICT. Explain, demonstrate, imitate, correct, test. A good instructor should be able to instruct just about any subject and a professional instructor makes it their business to always practice, keep up to date and never assume.
I love teaching a variety of things and pride myself on keeping up to date with everything in aviation from unmanned flight and space to GA and gliding. I read every publication, every new AIC, I check manufacturer websites for upcoming equipment changes I even read the engineering supplements to see if things have changed on the aircraft I fly. I expect every single instructor does the same because we are professional pilot licence holders it is expected. I even read forums like this to keep a wider view of the industry so that I do not have to assume anything. It is called being a professional.
So who would I rather learn with, well probably the not the instructor who makes as many assumptions as you do and assumes just because someone doesn't do something every day means that they are not as good as it as someone who does. You have students who can not fly for 1 month who are better than some who fly every day. Do not measure everyone by your own shortcomings.
I am not trying to pick a scrap with you but you do make sweeping generalizations and pass them off as fact then get riled when someone has an antithetical view. My point is I find instructors who work commercial and GA tend to have differences in how they instruct and the things they focus on but it is still an individual thing and some instructors are better than others for different types of environments and students.
Some of the schools I have taught in are very formal requiring PPL students to fly in a very commercial way with checks very similar to airline flying, look at the way that Cabair, Oxford, Multiflight, Bristol etc teach their PPL syllabii. Some schools seem to just make things up with little standardization and little control. I am not saying either way is good or bad as that is another discussion but I am pointing out that the world is wider than just your bit of it and you should be able to have relevant conversations with the 18yr old who is going commercial or the 65 yr old retired chap/chappess pottering around for their hobby. You should be just as happy flying an SR22 as you are a PA18, should be just as happy teaching in an Arrow as a C150. You should be adjusting for your target audience and not letting your misconceptions about other peoples ability make you appear to be less than impartial.
When you make comments such as
you seem to gloss over the fact that they fly in just as demanding environments on their days on its not like we are working in something completely unrelated now is it! Many instructors drive trucks, work in IT or engineering roles as well as instruct because they cannot live on an instructors salary. What do you have against airline pilots instructing?
Northrider Outstanding comment. I'll buy you a case of beer for that one
We all fly in the same airspace, using the same laws, the same R/T. Some of us even instruct in sims as well as in light aircraft. Instruction is instruction, I have personally carried out instruction in many disciplines from 1st aid, to mountain leadership, to shooting, to skiing and many of the things that I have or do instruct in use very similar pattern.
EDICT. Explain, demonstrate, imitate, correct, test. A good instructor should be able to instruct just about any subject and a professional instructor makes it their business to always practice, keep up to date and never assume.
I love teaching a variety of things and pride myself on keeping up to date with everything in aviation from unmanned flight and space to GA and gliding. I read every publication, every new AIC, I check manufacturer websites for upcoming equipment changes I even read the engineering supplements to see if things have changed on the aircraft I fly. I expect every single instructor does the same because we are professional pilot licence holders it is expected. I even read forums like this to keep a wider view of the industry so that I do not have to assume anything. It is called being a professional.
So who would I rather learn with, well probably the not the instructor who makes as many assumptions as you do and assumes just because someone doesn't do something every day means that they are not as good as it as someone who does. You have students who can not fly for 1 month who are better than some who fly every day. Do not measure everyone by your own shortcomings.
I am not trying to pick a scrap with you but you do make sweeping generalizations and pass them off as fact then get riled when someone has an antithetical view. My point is I find instructors who work commercial and GA tend to have differences in how they instruct and the things they focus on but it is still an individual thing and some instructors are better than others for different types of environments and students.
Some of the schools I have taught in are very formal requiring PPL students to fly in a very commercial way with checks very similar to airline flying, look at the way that Cabair, Oxford, Multiflight, Bristol etc teach their PPL syllabii. Some schools seem to just make things up with little standardization and little control. I am not saying either way is good or bad as that is another discussion but I am pointing out that the world is wider than just your bit of it and you should be able to have relevant conversations with the 18yr old who is going commercial or the 65 yr old retired chap/chappess pottering around for their hobby. You should be just as happy flying an SR22 as you are a PA18, should be just as happy teaching in an Arrow as a C150. You should be adjusting for your target audience and not letting your misconceptions about other peoples ability make you appear to be less than impartial.
When you make comments such as
dabbling in instruction on their days off
Northrider Outstanding comment. I'll buy you a case of beer for that one
Last edited by Vortex Thing; 17th Nov 2008 at 19:21.
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I do not have anything against airline pilots instructing, many do a great job with much experience to pass on. But given the choice I'd recommend a full time career instructor to train someone rather than a part timer - is that so complicated to grasp?
VFE.
VFE.
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I rest my case
Errrm yes.
Basically you are saying that you think you are a better instructor than those of us who fly airliners and who also instruct.
This you base on all of your 2 years instructional experience clearly having never flown an airliner HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA
I think delusional is the only way that your outlook could be assessed. The only thing more ridiculous than your hypothesis is your inability to understand that there are many people who can do more than one thing and many of them even do them well.
Basically you are saying that you think you are a better instructor than those of us who fly airliners and who also instruct.
This you base on all of your 2 years instructional experience clearly having never flown an airliner HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA
I think delusional is the only way that your outlook could be assessed. The only thing more ridiculous than your hypothesis is your inability to understand that there are many people who can do more than one thing and many of them even do them well.
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Nowhere on this thread (or the other one) have I claimed to be better than anyone else. In fact, you appear to have given me your whole (impressive) life story in aviation by way of adding some gravitas to your defence against my views on your pre-solo instruction methods.
I merely raised my views, questioned yours and the rest is internet debating at it's earthy best.
Cheers,
VFE.
I merely raised my views, questioned yours and the rest is internet debating at it's earthy best.
Cheers,
VFE.
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Doctrine Vs Dogma
Nowhere on this thread (or the other one) have I claimed to be better than anyone else.
given the choice I'd recommend a full time career instructor to train someone rather than a part timer - is that so complicated to grasp?
VFE.
VFE.
Unless I am mistaken I have not mentioned any schools or airlines I have worked for in these threads and save the fact that my profile gives a fairly typical but not altogether uncommon profile I have not at any point given you anything like my life story. If you want that get yourself over here bring some beer and pull up a sandbag failing that lets stop the thread creep.
My point was to welcome a new instructor and offer some friendly advice. Your original post to him/her was less than welcoming, now notwithstanding the fact that the thread has been done to death the new chap/chappess is only 24yrs old has just qualified as an FI and probably only just qualified as a commercial pilot so I thought that going easy and welcoming a new professional to our ranks would be a nice thing to do.
You however have hijacked the thread to snipe at those you imply are the bad examples. Had you said something to the effect that one common mistake is to over brief full stop then everyone would wholeheartedly agree.
What you did however say indirectly and directly was that the persons likely to perpetrate overbriefing are those whom YOU consider
dabble in
I think that I have a case to say you more than merely raised your views. As a parting thought though my views, as you happen to keep mentioning them, are not just my views they are CFS doctrine not Vortex Things dogma the difference is the whole raison d'etre for these forums.
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Canada Pilot
I hope you got the good advice you were looking for.
Just do the best you can and you'll never stop loving it.
(It looks like some people like typing more than flying. )
I hope you got the good advice you were looking for.
Just do the best you can and you'll never stop loving it.
(It looks like some people like typing more than flying. )
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Yes i did, thanks all for the useful advice...and the entertaining and PPRUNE typical route the thread took! will put it to good use if i can ever find a FI job! in the meantime, serving tables here in Calgary will have to suffice!