Flight Instructors Pay !!!!

[biggles152]

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[Duchess_Driver]

We've done this one to death haven't we?

Yep, flying instructors at PPL aren't the best paid people on the planet. ME, CPL and IR instructors get paid a tad more.

Suffice to say, we don't do it for the money. We do it because we love the job and the pleasure we get from seeing a 'first solo smile.'

HTH

DD

[BigEndBob]

Well i'm the CFI of the club i work at, get paid a salary earning half i was earning 5 years ago for the same role, but different school.

Would earn more collecting trollies at the local supermarket.
But would it be as satisfying.....probably.

[lil_blueberry]

Wow, not the case now......

Generally in any employment, you cannot expect to be paid huge amounts of cash.......

Experience = more bargaining power/money..... so no different to instructors....sorry....

however, if you cant find a place that needs instructors nowadays that don't pay good then your dead set blind.......... grade II and above you can crack 40-50g's for the right spots......... easy. Grade III's get the short end of the stick.

Try Airline Academy of Australia (Archerfield) or RQAC (Archerfield) they pay good and if your willing to stay and are a decent instructor/exp instructor you will do fine.........

[Whirlybird]

Wow, if that's really true I think Oz can expect a mass immigration of instructors in the near future. But wait a minute....is that money in Australian dollars. If so...I won't bother.

[AlphaMale]

We've done this one to death haven't we?

I think everybody is quite certain the FI's are not on the best money. But nobody has given biggles152 an answer yet? he asked about wages and not opinions on wages.

Compared to a Captains pay at BA then yes it's bad but what is it like compared to working an admin job 9-5 i.e. £12k-£15k pa?

As far as I've read you don't get a salary but you might/should get a retainer of say £200 a month and then a pay as an hourly pay. I read a thread about FI's only flying 40hrs during January compared to the 80 - 100hrs they work in the summer.

What is the pay you can expect per month if you fly 40hrs? and what is they pay if you fly 100hrs? based on a FI(r) with 300+hrs and an ATPL with an average flying school?

I'm guessing a pay of £17k pa is about right? (£250 take home per week as an average?).

Thanks.

[duveldrinker]

As free lancer and this is your only source of income ? VFR : never agree to work for less than 28 eur/hr , IFR 50 eur/hr. Daily aim at 175 - 200 euro at least. These are in my opinion realistic deals in mainland europe nowadays.
About the situation in the UK I have no info.
But I think, biggles152, that a lot of people ( myself included) will be rather shy about exposing personal financial info on a public site.

Cheers.

[Duchess_Driver]

Alpha Male.....

Merely pointing out that the use of the search function would probably have answered the question, old chap!

Yep - compared to a BA Captain it's bad. Compared to an admin worker on 12-15K it's poor, as an admin worker hasn't invested anywhere near the amount it's taken us as Instructors/Examiners.

I get a salary - which I am led to believe is good for my (lowly) position within the industry - and flight pay. There are people who know who I am so I can't state exact figures - let's just say I'm happy with my lot. I also get flight pay at £12 per hour. Use of the search facility would reveal how much that earned me last month. Yep, summer is much better.

£17K? - well, I can dream.

What pay can you expect - Where are you in the country? How many strings does your bow have (Night, instrument, multi, tailwheel, EFIS, etc...)?

Too many variables to give a realistic answer.

[AlphaMale]

£17K? - well, I can dream.

Thank you.

I'm just trying to estimate potential earnings as a FI to determine my loan amount and over how long a period. I'm looking to take a CDL and another smaller loan but I only want to take out what I can afford to pay back.

I'll probably let my apartment out and go back with the parents (sacrifices we have to make uhh?) so I'll be looking to fund my Multi-IR (BFC) and FI (Aeros or Spain) as it stands to date. I have the cash and equity to fund PPL>CPL (only BFC do it the other way around with regard to Multi-IR then CPL).

I'll do another search but people tend to sidestep the figures which is understandable of course.

[AlphaMale]

Ok, I've found a couple of threads that quote;

Attendance £25/ Flying £15-18 per hour depending on type. So far this week I'm averaging £110 per day (working 0830-1700).

£10 a day, then £12 per flying hour FI(R). Down south.

uniform, test flight, checkout and standards flying all included. No limit to the flying available, good aircraft , very professional and £20 per hour.

Unrestricted @ £16.50/hour. No retainer. No perks.

I’m now on £30 a day retainer and £13 an hour. I get a higher hourly rate if I fly on my days off. Not so bad at all I think.

i was getting £25 per hour, £35 for imc training, flying about 40 hours per month and doing quite nicely thankyou very much in comparison to some of my mates.

£18ph initially. Then 16K pa, increasing a couple of months later to 18K

I received £500 basic per month then £9 per flying hour on top, plus pension and health benefits if I chose!

When they were paying they paid £10000 retainer and £12.50 ph flight pay but the retainer was paid at the start of the month and the flight pay in the middle(to make it very difficult to leave). The retainer was PAYE and the flight pay was self employed "do your own tax", This meant that on a good year you could earn about £17000

I usually expect/ hope to earn a little over £20000/ year.

I get £30 retainer, paid for supervisory hours (drinking coffee on the ground while some solo student scrapes around the circuit), £22 quid an hour and only PPL work. Usually log 8 hours per day - Took just under £850 for a week's work recently.

These are all competing for the worst paid FI's in the UK. I've been told FI's at the big integrated schools earn £40k+ albeit as experienced CPL/IR instructors.

[2close]

Cabair Flying Schools (PPL, not CPL IR) pay a basic salary of ~ £ 15.5K, which equates to £ 1,000 per month net.

This includes your first 20 hours instructing.

After that, you get £25.00 per hour gross, £30.00 per hour IMC or Night, £10.00 per hour solo supervision or ferrying aircraft, £5.52 per hour 1 on 1 ground school and £15 per lecture of night school.

So, a winter month with 40 instructional hours would bring you in £1,000 net for the first 20 hours then £500 gross for the next 20 hours, which would probably net you about £1,325.00. A summer month with 100 hours instructing would bring £1,000 net + £2,000 gross, which will clear you more like £2.5K.

They were doing a sponsored FI scheme but I understand all spots are now filled.

HTH

2close

[clear prop!!!]

Now, if most instructors are honest this "being exploited' thing is 2 way.
Fact is, there are few genuine career instructors out there. Most are 'using' their FTO to build hours (for free!), and get some cash into the bargain. The end result being that they achieve their goal of being more employable by the airlines. Well, fair enough but don't expect FTO's to invest any more than they can get away with.
Now, genuine career instructors, that's another thing. Trouble is you have to stick around long enough on low pay to prove you're not the usual hour builder (dont pop off for an MCC course, that's a dead giveaway!!). When you have done that, and are not seen as someone the Airlines just dont want, most good commercial FTO's will invest in salaries and ratings. Why?... because career instructors are becoming almost extinct.
Right now, an experienced ME/IR instructor can walk into any number of jobs at between 30 and 45k..NO problem.

[AlphaMale]

They were doing a sponsored FI scheme but I understand all spots are now filled.

I was quite interested in this but it didn't seem like anything was going to come of it? and thet guy had a duff deal with a verbal contract.

I guess I'll just see what's around at the time. Cabair must have one of the best deals for FI's pay though?

A summer month with 100 hours instructing would bring £1,000 net + £2,000 gross, which will clear you more like £2.5K.

You/I could live very easily on that money.

[SkyCamMK]

Instructor Pay

In response to the thread generally and not to anyone in particuar, may I say: What is a new FI worth? There are ads in now in both Pilot and Flight at £20 per hour for PPL but so far no takers - equivalent to £25-30k PA. Is a new FI(R) good enough to work at that rate: how much work can the FI(R) do and how involved would he get in a small organisation. There are jobs available now if the effort is made to secure the job(s). A new FI will have to work hard but the reward is there if willing. A casual email is not enough to express genuine interest. Phone first then get down there and make your case for employment.... Could you negotiate a retainer on top of this hourly rate? Try it!! If you really have something to offer you should say so! There are more firms than CabAir you know and big company culture does not suit everyone. Career instructors have so much to share to the right pilots.

[manfromuncle]

£10.00 per hour solo supervision or ferrying aircraft

Does that include all the other stuff apart from flying (ie, the preflight, fuelling, briefing paperwork, waiting, etc). If so, its less than minimum wages, and hence, is illegal.

[2close]

You have to remember that Cabair already pay a basic ~ £ 15,000 pa salary, which based on a 48 hour week (maximum as per contract) for all 52 weeks of the year translates into an hourly rate of £ 6.01 per hour, in excess of the national minimum wage.

You are paid that, whether you fly or not.

That salary does include the first 20 hours instructional flying.

All other flying is effectively 'bonus' pay as you've already been paid a salary above minimum wage.

By the way, I'm not flying the Cabair flag, just saying it as it is.

[porridge]

Have you all seen the ad in Pilot for a PPL FI's at £30k a year (Cranfield based) it circa £30k not OTE related either - is this a typo or a wind-up????

[AlphaMale]

There are ads in now in both Pilot and Flight at £20 per hour for PPL but so far no takers - equivalent to £25-30k PA

Have you all seen the ad in Pilot for a PPL FI's at £30k a year

And people wonder why the 'How much are FI's on?' crops up all the time.

It's really confusing trying to gauge possible earnings when some take home between £0 - £10 a day and some take £30k pa

[SkyCamMK]

Market forces will or at least can operate in this industry like any other but as most of us are self employed the benefits packages are often antiquated. That is not to say that we should expect to meet the CabAir standards of employment. They have a large network and need lots of people of good quality that they can retain to look after their integrated course students.

The job(s) at Cranfield can be a good earner for the right person. I know who the employer is and how the system works. Work experience is not that common amongst FI(R) and they really need some. Getting involved deeply is a great way to learn the business. To some extent one can determine ones own earnings as they are in large part proportional to effort expended. Getting students in is a bit of a sales job, then we teach them and if they respond they will come back and spread the word. This is what sustains a business. However as previously said; if a stepping stone is all that is sought do not be surprised that life is not handed on a plate. Being paid to fly! Do it!

It is a foggy day, why not get down to Cranfield?

PS Porridge, do you think that a company would pay hundreds of pounds each to 2 Flying mags for a wind up???

[manfromuncle]

2close:

Yes, but I beleive there are instructors NOT on the retainer system, hence they are doing ferry flights/student solo for less than minimum wage.