PPL+FI can I be paid?
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PPL+FI can I be paid?
Hello,
Is it possible to work and be paid as a flight instructor with just a PPL+FI ? or to get the salary I must hold a CPL ?
RM86
Is it possible to work and be paid as a flight instructor with just a PPL+FI ? or to get the salary I must hold a CPL ?
RM86
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What I though, and do schools hire instructors with only PPL+FI and available of working/flying for free? Doing the job without commercial license?
Rm86
Rm86
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I'm no authority on it i'm afraid, never really thought of it that way though.
Haven't done a FI Rating but doing my CPL at the moment, I presume its a money issue as to why your enquiring?
Haven't done a FI Rating but doing my CPL at the moment, I presume its a money issue as to why your enquiring?
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I was curiose to know if it's possible to get a flying job with only a class 2 medical certificate obtaining PPL+FI and working in the training. Being payed is of course better, but with no class 1 it's not possible to take the CPL. So the question is again, can I find a job, also unpaid with PPL+FI .
Thanks
RM86
Thanks
RM86
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come on in, the water's fine
Sure, lots of small schools in USA would be happy to have somebody volunteer their time, and the FAA has no problem with free instruction.
SOME insurance companies might balk at insuring the aircraft because the school has no "control" over the "employee" so he might not adhere to safe practices. Underwriters are so unreasonably paranoid!
The terminology you're using makes it sound like a non-FAA environment, conceivably there might be a governmental difference in interpretation there.
I have the impression that the USA has rolled over to requiring the Commercial before the CFI, but it used to be that one could get a CFI in USA with just a Private Certificate.
SOME insurance companies might balk at insuring the aircraft because the school has no "control" over the "employee" so he might not adhere to safe practices. Underwriters are so unreasonably paranoid!
The terminology you're using makes it sound like a non-FAA environment, conceivably there might be a governmental difference in interpretation there.
I have the impression that the USA has rolled over to requiring the Commercial before the CFI, but it used to be that one could get a CFI in USA with just a Private Certificate.
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I've just dug out my notes from training (UK), and things may well have changed, but I have written here:
"PPL: No flying for hire or reward, other than for the giving of flying instruction with a Flight Instructors' Rating or a RFIR..."
Completely wrong? Times have changed?
"PPL: No flying for hire or reward, other than for the giving of flying instruction with a Flight Instructors' Rating or a RFIR..."
Completely wrong? Times have changed?
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In principle, you could charge a lot for your ground briefs and ground instruction, but do the flight instruction for free.
Of course, if you owned or were a director of the RF or FTO, you could benefit from the profits yielded by an unpaid FI.
Of course, if you owned or were a director of the RF or FTO, you could benefit from the profits yielded by an unpaid FI.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Or cut the grass for remuneration and instruct for free. This basically relies on an understanding and savvy FTO who already know you.... Given the choice - if they're gonna pay an FI they'd sooner take one more qualified than a newly minted PPL FI surely? I know I would. It is a no-brainer on a professional level and a moral one. Also, all it takes is one disgruntled git to rat you and the FTO out to the CAA and who knows what action could fall on your heads? For that reason alone I would stear clear of the idea if I were the employer. Anyone know how tough the CAA get on cases where illegal remuneration is suspected? I wouldn't wish to find out thru experience.
VFE.
VFE.
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And the point that we're all missing here is that you cant actually do an FI rating at the moment without at least having done your CPL or ATPL theoretical exams! Thats the rules ladies and gents. Theres no way round things at the moment, although times are changing.
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And the point that we're all missing here is that you cant actually do an FI rating at the moment without at least having done your CPL or ATPL theoretical exams!
And just for info, what is the avarage salary for a full time microlight instructor in europe?
Last question, is it possible to get hired only as a ground instructor with a regular salary?
Thx a lot.
RM86
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No doubt about this, but I was told from some people in this business that ther're some FI with only a PPL and they are normally paid.
VFE.
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Correct on the BCPL VFE, however if EASA get their way, which I really hope they don't, then the BCPL is going to be scrapped. This then brings to question the publics european right to work, which stops them doing this. So if you get your BCPL now, you can still use it later and teach students to fly under this BCPL - even when its scrapped by EASA as it would be illegal for them to stop guys already earning a living off the BCPL from working and forcing them to get a full CPL. Hope this was helpful.
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One of the requirements to apply for a CFI license is to hold a CPL. But if what you want to do is just to teach theory then you can get a Ground Instructor certificate simply by passing FOI (fundamental of instruction) and the relevant ground instructor written tests.
Last edited by spacepodlife; 7th Feb 2008 at 00:10.
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Section H: Instructor Ratings in LASORS (2007) has all the info on Instructor ratings and the pre-requisites to take the FI course.
"Remuneration
"Remuneration
In order to receive payment for flight instruction, an
instructor must hold a valid professional pilots licence
and valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Instructors who hold valid private pilot licences and
valid JAR-FCL Class 2 Medical Certificate are entitled
to instruct but cannot receive payment for this service*.
* This does not apply to the holder of a UK PPL(H) who
qualified prior to 1 January 2000 under national
arrangements"
instructor must hold a valid professional pilots licence
and valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Instructors who hold valid private pilot licences and
valid JAR-FCL Class 2 Medical Certificate are entitled
to instruct but cannot receive payment for this service*.
* This does not apply to the holder of a UK PPL(H) who
qualified prior to 1 January 2000 under national
arrangements"
Holders of a PPL can take the FI course as long as they meet the pre-requisites (professional licence or 200 hours flight time including 150 PIC for PPL holders).
I believe these pre-reqs are the same for airplane and helicopters.
Correct on the BCPL VFE, however if EASA get their way, which I really hope they don't, then the BCPL is going to be scrapped. This then brings to question the publics european right to work, which stops them doing this. So if you get your BCPL now, you can still use it later and teach students to fly under this BCPL - even when its scrapped by EASA as it would be illegal for them to stop guys already earning a living off the BCPL from working and forcing them to get a full CPL. Hope this was helpful.
Poss, you're half right. According to Eric Sivel from EASA, the BCPL will be scrapped when they assume control of FCL, but the commercial licence requirement for flight instructors is to be removed at the same time. It will no doubt anger those who have undertaken the arduous CPL requirement just to become flight instructors, but given most of these have done it in order to build hours before moving on to an airline position they had to jump through the commercial licence hurdles anyway.
It won't happen overnight however.
Poss, you're half right. According to Eric Sivel from EASA, the BCPL will be scrapped when they assume control of FCL, but the commercial licence requirement for flight instructors is to be removed at the same time. It will no doubt anger those who have undertaken the arduous CPL requirement just to become flight instructors, but given most of these have done it in order to build hours before moving on to an airline position they had to jump through the commercial licence hurdles anyway.
It won't happen overnight however.