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Restricted and unrestricted!?

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Restricted and unrestricted!?

Old 27th Nov 2007, 08:59
  #1 (permalink)  
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Restricted and unrestricted!?

Restricted and unrestricted FI!?
Can you trell me the difference between these two please?!
Cheers
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 09:36
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Restricted FI: what you become on completion of your FI course.
You cannot:

1. Operate as the only flying instructor at an RF or FTO, you will need supervision from an unrestricted instructor.

2. Send 1st solo circuit or nav.

You are restricted until:

100hrs instructional time
25 solo send offs (students who have already been sent 1st solo)
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 10:00
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Thanks for that.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 10:02
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Unless you have a non-UK JAA FI(A) rating, which has no restriction.

A brand new JAA instructor coming to the UK from overseas to work are not restricted in the same way as a UK issued FI(A) and can sign off solos and supervise a UK FI(A) (R) who has x00 hours of instructing but has only managed to get 24 solo sign offs.

It raises an interesting question. Who has it right? The UK with it's imposition of a restriction on new FI's or all other JAA member states with no such restriction.

Head over the parapet, stand by for incoming!!!
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 10:31
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All JAA FIs are restricted in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.325 (a). So until they have met the requirement and been recommended by a supervising FI who must be notified to the CAA if they are instructing in a UK RF they cannot act as anything else other than a FI(R).

The fact that other countries do not issue a specific Restricted FI Rating does not change the JAA requirement.

If there is an accident and it is proved that the requirement was not met then you will finish up uninsured and with a lot of liability!
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 11:07
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Thanks, Whoppity, I stand corrected.

I do wonder whether everyone is actually applying that though.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 11:16
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probably not! So much for European standardisation. Some European trained FIs have never done briefings and didn't have to teach anything on their FI test!
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 16:26
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FI(r)

combineharvester

UK/JAA FI(r) cannot send; first solo nor 1st solo cross-country as you say but neither can they send first solo at night.

Where does it say that the UK JAA FI(r) cannot operate unsupervised? However, UK AFI are so restricted - I presume that there are some that still exist.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 17:01
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i stand amended!!

re the supervision: this was the impression i got from the document that the CAA sent a few months back regarding the supervision of FI(R)'s. All of it seemed to make sense, i.e that the supervising FI should not either be hungover in bed or on the golf course whilst "supervising" remotely!
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 17:31
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Where does it say that the UK JAA FI(r) cannot operate unsupervised?
JAR-FCL 1.325 (b)
Restrictions. The privileges are restricted to carrying out under the supervision of a FI(A) approved for this purpose.

ANO Schedule 8
Restricted Privileges
(3) The privileges shall be restricted to carrying out under the supervision of the holder of a flight instructor rating (aeroplane) approved for this purpose:
(a) flight instruction for the issue of the Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) or those parts of integrated courses at Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) level and class and type ratings for single-engine aeroplanes, excluding approval of first solo flights by day or by night and first solo cross country flights by day or by night;
and
(b) night flying instruction.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 17:50
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Supervision

Whopity
The UK AFI requires a FI supervisor present at the aerodrome for departure and arrival. No such restriction is applied to the JAA FI(r)
The JAA term 'supervision' is not made clear and therefore could be someone quite lossely associated with the days activities. Maybe, put simply, someone to whom you may refer wherever they may be - some might not like that but is how many consider it to be and how it is commonly operated by some clubs/schools.
One is left to ask that why, if the intented restriction was to be the same as the UK AFI, that the ANO schedule 8 didn't say so. It is only a few inches of paper between the one regulation and the other.
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Old 27th Nov 2007, 19:27
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'India-Mike
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Now, I'm only a lowly FIC candidate, about 1/3 through my part-time course so am willing to be shot down in flames. But, despite the foregoing posts, doesn't TrainingCom 1/2007 give appropriate interpretation for FI(R)'s? Or, when I get my FI(R) should I just discard it as only advisory? I note it refers to a potential forthcoming AIC but I can't find one.

TheTrainingCom is pretty explicit. No room for interpretation there.
 
Old 27th Nov 2007, 22:43
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Non-UK JAR licence holders have the same restrictions.

The CAA is not interested in the de-restriction of the restricted non-UK issued licence holder. The authority who issued the licence is.

The CAA supervises all aviation activities in the UK. Do you see the CAA present at every such activity? No.

Supervision and being present are clearly defined legally.

One can be present but not meet the requirements for proper supervision. One can supervise properly but not be present.

The important thing is that the supervisor has all the required info to perform the function and has the ability to influence the operation if required.

That includes being present at briefings, operations and debriefings suficient times to determine competence.

Regards,

DFC
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Old 28th Nov 2007, 15:15
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The privileges of a AFI and a FI(R) are largely the same. The requirement for supervision is the same though written in a different way. In the end, only a court will decide what "supervision" means when it all goes wrong!

The CAA supervises all aviation activities in the UK.
No it does not; it is a regulatory body!
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Old 28th Nov 2007, 21:03
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Whopity,

To bring you up to date on the CAA,

The CAA Safety regulation Group -

The Safety Regulation Group sets certain national safety standards. In parallel, it oversees the activities of the aviation community and its level of compliance with both national and European safety standards.
From the front page of the CAA web site. My emphasis.

Regards,

DFC
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Old 29th Nov 2007, 10:21
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DFC - There is a significant difference between oversight and supervision, a fact little understood by those FIs who actually exercise nothing more than 'oversight' of the FIs(R) who they are supposed to be 'supervising'.

Even had you been correct, I would have thought Whopity was one of the last people to need 'bringing up to date' on the CAA!!
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Old 29th Nov 2007, 17:50
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The true meaning

Whopity
Of course I hear what you say but the distinction to be made here is very important. One of the most common elements of PPRuNe threads are that so and so's CFI says such and another says something else. In fact beliefs can be as varied as opinions given
An important change from the UK standard to the JARs was that we were to no longer have Assistant Flying Instructors, within which title bears a clue. We would have only Flight Instructors who are initially restricted.
But the restricted FI is only restricted to certain things. Unlike the AFI the FI(r) are not required to demonstrate any further abilities by assessment or test. The AFI was required to undertake an 'uprade' test with and FI Examiner and they were assessed. The FI(r) has simply to show 25 solo student send offs and have accrued 100 hours instructing. This is sometimes achieved in just on month. They then fill in a form, send it with a couple of bob to the CAA - job done.
What is a Supervising FI and who saids what they should be. Could be an Instructor with one months experience - couldn't it. I did once fill in a registration form, at the onset of JAA, naming me as a supervising FI but I seem to be alone nowadays and i'm sure all forgotten. It makes little difference who counter-signs the restriction release application form it seems to me.
The 'Supervisor' as briefed to me early during 1999 by our CAA inspecting officer was someone who would have the personal knowledge to countersign the release application. There was great constination that the FI(r) would not require working supervision and the retort from the Belrano always to the effect of 'thats the JAA for yer!'.

Whopity, are you saying the tune has changed?
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 13:53
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Hi, new to the forum and in hopes of learning a lot.

Anybody out there who knows whether or not an restricted instructor can teach at two different schools, assuming he has a supervisor at both places?

Help is much appreciated!

Regards
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 17:45
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Anybody out there who knows whether or not an restricted instructor can teach at two different schools, assuming he has a supervisor at both places?
Well, yes, because I most certainly do! There is a Chief Flying Instructor at both establishments and they're both aware of what I do at the other place, no conflict of interests and all above board.

Cheers,
TheOddOne
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Old 7th Dec 2007, 14:04
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Supervision and being present are clearly defined legally.
DFC

Would be intersted to know if that is your opinion or is it quoted somewhere.

This is a request for information, not a clever dick comment!
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