Briefings for Trial Lessons
The Original Whirly
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Briefings for Trial Lessons
I don't think we've discussed this here before, have we?
No-one ever tells you how to brief for trial lessons, do they? Or they didn't on my FI course. Maybe helicopters are different.
When I got my FI rating, a very experienced instructor, knowing of this problem, sent me a copy of his rotary TL briefing. It ran to 4 pages!!! It was Ex 4...and then some. I tried it, and the CFI complained it took too long, TL students went to sleep, and the schedule got way behind. So I asked a few people what they did, and then sorted out my own, which has got refined over the last three years.
So I thought I'd tell you all what I do, and I'd be interested in hearing what others do. Of necessity this will have a helicopter bias, but the basic principles are probably the same.....
1) I sit them down, and find out a bit about them. Ask if they've ever been in a light aircraft before, or ANY aircraft...some people haven't. Find out if they've ever taken the controls. Ask what they want to do - look at the view and experience things, take control, a bit of both? Are they thinking about a PPL, or is it a one-off? Don't assume because they're 90 they won't want to take control; some old people have wanted to fly all their lives, and this TL is the fulfilment of a lifelong ambition. All this doesn't take long, and lets you plan what to do. You also find out if they're over-confident...and these types are liable to try very hard to kill you!!!
2) Unless there's no helicopter available right then, I've abandoned classroom briefings. Nobody could ever understand my diagrams anyway, it took lots of time, and I still had to show them all of it in the helicopter anyway. So I take them out to the helicopter, get in if it's cold, stand outside in this sort of weather. I show them all the controls, and demonstrate what they do. I concentrate on the cyclic, and just mention the others, because unless it's an hour TL and/or they're very good, they won't manage more than one control anyway. I keep it brief and to the essentials. If they ask detailed questions, I normally say we'll go into that afterwards. That way, they might remember the basics. They don't need to know about dissymmetry of lift at this stage; they do need to know not to shove the cyclic forward and unload the rotors!
3) I do a safety briefing last thing, so that hopefully they'll remember it.
And that's about it.
What do you all do? Any thoughts?
No-one ever tells you how to brief for trial lessons, do they? Or they didn't on my FI course. Maybe helicopters are different.
When I got my FI rating, a very experienced instructor, knowing of this problem, sent me a copy of his rotary TL briefing. It ran to 4 pages!!! It was Ex 4...and then some. I tried it, and the CFI complained it took too long, TL students went to sleep, and the schedule got way behind. So I asked a few people what they did, and then sorted out my own, which has got refined over the last three years.
So I thought I'd tell you all what I do, and I'd be interested in hearing what others do. Of necessity this will have a helicopter bias, but the basic principles are probably the same.....
1) I sit them down, and find out a bit about them. Ask if they've ever been in a light aircraft before, or ANY aircraft...some people haven't. Find out if they've ever taken the controls. Ask what they want to do - look at the view and experience things, take control, a bit of both? Are they thinking about a PPL, or is it a one-off? Don't assume because they're 90 they won't want to take control; some old people have wanted to fly all their lives, and this TL is the fulfilment of a lifelong ambition. All this doesn't take long, and lets you plan what to do. You also find out if they're over-confident...and these types are liable to try very hard to kill you!!!
2) Unless there's no helicopter available right then, I've abandoned classroom briefings. Nobody could ever understand my diagrams anyway, it took lots of time, and I still had to show them all of it in the helicopter anyway. So I take them out to the helicopter, get in if it's cold, stand outside in this sort of weather. I show them all the controls, and demonstrate what they do. I concentrate on the cyclic, and just mention the others, because unless it's an hour TL and/or they're very good, they won't manage more than one control anyway. I keep it brief and to the essentials. If they ask detailed questions, I normally say we'll go into that afterwards. That way, they might remember the basics. They don't need to know about dissymmetry of lift at this stage; they do need to know not to shove the cyclic forward and unload the rotors!
3) I do a safety briefing last thing, so that hopefully they'll remember it.
And that's about it.
What do you all do? Any thoughts?
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Well, of course, what you say and what you do in the trial lesson is totally dependent on your customer and the aim of the briefing before the lesson is to find out what sort of customer you have got so that the further briefing and lesson itself can be tailored to fit.
There are many different types of customer: for example there are the ones we want who are really keen to start learning to fly. Then there are the ones who have been bought a birthday/Christmas present of an unusual experience, then there are the computer geeks who want to compare flying their simulator software with the real thing. (Their flying ability can really suprise you!) And then there are the brave sensible souls who are scared witless of the thought of flying, are about to undergo their first passenger flight on holiday and have decided that the best way to try and overcome their fear is to face it head on with a flying lesson! Oh yes - and there is also the ex-RAF fast jet pilot who hasn't flown for thirty or so years and wants to have a go again.
For each type (and I've had them all) there is a different sort of "trial lesson" and it is during the 1-to-1 chat bit that you find out what type your customer is and then think on your feet to decide what to do, and more importantly what you are going to get them to do. With the exception of two of the above categories it should be, IMHO for them to get their hands on the controls and keep them there for as long as possible! I could go on for hours about this important topic, but I hope the above will generate some food for thought for my less experienced colleagues.
P.P.
There are many different types of customer: for example there are the ones we want who are really keen to start learning to fly. Then there are the ones who have been bought a birthday/Christmas present of an unusual experience, then there are the computer geeks who want to compare flying their simulator software with the real thing. (Their flying ability can really suprise you!) And then there are the brave sensible souls who are scared witless of the thought of flying, are about to undergo their first passenger flight on holiday and have decided that the best way to try and overcome their fear is to face it head on with a flying lesson! Oh yes - and there is also the ex-RAF fast jet pilot who hasn't flown for thirty or so years and wants to have a go again.
For each type (and I've had them all) there is a different sort of "trial lesson" and it is during the 1-to-1 chat bit that you find out what type your customer is and then think on your feet to decide what to do, and more importantly what you are going to get them to do. With the exception of two of the above categories it should be, IMHO for them to get their hands on the controls and keep them there for as long as possible! I could go on for hours about this important topic, but I hope the above will generate some food for thought for my less experienced colleagues.
P.P.
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Personally, I keep trial lessons as straight forward and simple as possible;
Effects of controls.....this is how we go up, go down, turn left and right, this is what the rudder does....let them have a go and then return to land.....
Anything more, in my experience, becomes an overload for the student and can kill the fun on the first flight.
TJ
Effects of controls.....this is how we go up, go down, turn left and right, this is what the rudder does....let them have a go and then return to land.....
Anything more, in my experience, becomes an overload for the student and can kill the fun on the first flight.
TJ
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I agree with TurboJ, keep it simple.
I used to do a lot of trial lesons when i started instructing, and i was brieffed by the more experienced fellows at the school.
What we use to do is take a model aircraft (the ones pooleys sell made of wood with moving surfaces where you can see stick and pedals on the outside of the model) and explain the effects of the controls in a very visual way, and writing down on the board as we explained it but keeping it very very simple.
later, in other schools i had to do it with no model, and i used to go near the real aircraft and do the brieffing by moving the surfaces and controls for them to picture what i was saying, keeping technical jargon to the minimum.
beware, in some countries (UK for instance) the authorities will not appreciate if schools do trial lesons with no brieffing, legally speaking it cannot be considered a trial leson if you don't brieff them properly.
I used to do a lot of trial lesons when i started instructing, and i was brieffed by the more experienced fellows at the school.
What we use to do is take a model aircraft (the ones pooleys sell made of wood with moving surfaces where you can see stick and pedals on the outside of the model) and explain the effects of the controls in a very visual way, and writing down on the board as we explained it but keeping it very very simple.
later, in other schools i had to do it with no model, and i used to go near the real aircraft and do the brieffing by moving the surfaces and controls for them to picture what i was saying, keeping technical jargon to the minimum.
beware, in some countries (UK for instance) the authorities will not appreciate if schools do trial lesons with no brieffing, legally speaking it cannot be considered a trial leson if you don't brieff them properly.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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My FIC taught how to conduct a trial lesson from day one.
Get the feeling far too many FIC's teach just enough to pass the exam and not enough by way of practical information, still, there's nowt new where JAR courses are concerned there then!
VFE.
Get the feeling far too many FIC's teach just enough to pass the exam and not enough by way of practical information, still, there's nowt new where JAR courses are concerned there then!
VFE.
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As I recall, I would meet the trial lesson student and have a quick chat with them , and family if present, at first in the reception area or upstairs in the lounge. You can quickly see which category they fall into. Then I would find out where they came from and show them my chart, point out where the airport was, and where their home was and recommend we fly over it, time permitting.
Then out to the aircraft - take the family for photos - let the young child sit in the plane that daddy was going to fly in if he wanted - quick walk around pointing out the control surfaces check the oil and tyres then get in.
Explain the six flight instruments in front of him and the engine controls. Show how the control column moved the ailerons and elevator then safety briefing.
Then patter through to to top of climb, trim the plane and show the effects of the controls - but not paricularly secondary or speed effects and hand over to them.
Let them do as much as they wnat or are able until over there house. Do a few turn over it, let them fly back and take over when appropriate - top of descent or short finals depending on ability and weather.
I don't think giving a formal lecture in a briefing room is a good idea. For most it would be intimidating and over the top and I would never have had time - 45min slot for a 30min flight.
Then out to the aircraft - take the family for photos - let the young child sit in the plane that daddy was going to fly in if he wanted - quick walk around pointing out the control surfaces check the oil and tyres then get in.
Explain the six flight instruments in front of him and the engine controls. Show how the control column moved the ailerons and elevator then safety briefing.
Then patter through to to top of climb, trim the plane and show the effects of the controls - but not paricularly secondary or speed effects and hand over to them.
Let them do as much as they wnat or are able until over there house. Do a few turn over it, let them fly back and take over when appropriate - top of descent or short finals depending on ability and weather.
I don't think giving a formal lecture in a briefing room is a good idea. For most it would be intimidating and over the top and I would never have had time - 45min slot for a 30min flight.
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Originally Posted by LEVC
beware, in some countries (UK for instance) the authorities will not appreciate if schools do trial lesons with no brieffing, legally speaking it cannot be considered a trial leson if you don't brieff them properly.
Exercise 3 is the Air Experience Flight.
It is an exercise where the student is introduced to the sensations of being in the air and the local training area.
The student should have a feel of the controls briefly but it should not be used to teach any part of the sylabus.
The objective is to allow the student to relax in the new environment, get some orientation and generally be in a better position to receive instruction on the following lessons.
There is no briefing for exercise 3.
Exercises 1 and 2 introduce all the procedures, the checklist, the drills and the basic parts of the aircraft.
How long should the flight be? - As long as it takes to acheive the aim. No longer and no less.
That is it.
The effects of controls are covered on exercise 4.
If you are taking members of the public who have no intention of completing a PPL course on a flight over their house or a prominent tourist location (which is not in the local training area), no amount of briefings or letting them have a go at the controls will make it anything other than illegal public transport.
Regards,
DFC
The Original Whirly
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If you are taking members of the public who have no intention of completing a PPL course on a flight over their house or a prominent tourist location (which is not in the local training area), no amount of briefings or letting them have a go at the controls will make it anything other than illegal public transport.
Someone is bought a trial lesson voucher as a birthday present. He comes to Tatenhill, and asks if we can overfly his house, have a look at Alton Towers, and can he have a quick go on the controls too. We do all that, and I demonstrate a bit of hovering and an auto-rotation...just to show him what helicopters can do. He comes back, and announces it was the most fun he's ever had in his life, and he wants to do the whole course, starting next week. He'd been thinking of it, but didn't want to feel like he was committing himself by saying anything at all before the flight.
DFC, are you saying this flight was illegal? After all, I couldn't have read his mind.
(Hypothetical situation, but not too dissimilar to what has happened several times)
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Oh, and the opposite situation, happened just last week....
Chap comes in, wife has bought him an hour TL as a birthday present. But he tells me he definitely wants to learn to fly, and probably buy his own helicopter afterwards. Short briefing, we go up, I let him have a go. He finds it really, really, really hard. Almost no matter what I do, he just can't manage it. He probably would in the end, but I can see he's getting discouraged. I take over, demonstrate a few things, and he asks me about helicopters. By the time we get back I'm fairly sure this chap will never try to fly a helicopter again. Tells me he enjoyed it, but it sounds false. Wife asks if he wants to book another lesson now; he says he'll phone us later. Haven't heard from him...and probably never will.
A TL lets people find out if they don't like flying when they thought they would, or find they love it and have to do it when they had no intention of doing so. Isn't that the whole point?
Chap comes in, wife has bought him an hour TL as a birthday present. But he tells me he definitely wants to learn to fly, and probably buy his own helicopter afterwards. Short briefing, we go up, I let him have a go. He finds it really, really, really hard. Almost no matter what I do, he just can't manage it. He probably would in the end, but I can see he's getting discouraged. I take over, demonstrate a few things, and he asks me about helicopters. By the time we get back I'm fairly sure this chap will never try to fly a helicopter again. Tells me he enjoyed it, but it sounds false. Wife asks if he wants to book another lesson now; he says he'll phone us later. Haven't heard from him...and probably never will.
A TL lets people find out if they don't like flying when they thought they would, or find they love it and have to do it when they had no intention of doing so. Isn't that the whole point?
Meet and greet; discover motivation, mindset and what they want to get out of the trip. Brief (with the family/mates) the primary EoC using a model, explain the importance of attitudes and lookout and give a quick outline of the trip (no writing or white boards). Discuss effects of g if appropriate.
Walk out discussing a few aircraft details. Strap-in, explain harness and door/canopy catches.
Once away from dispersal discuss handover/takeover of control and get them taxiing. Consider getting them to fly the take-off (if tricycle).
Demo primary EoC and attitude in climb then get them to fly the climb.
Level-off, demo attitude and get them to fly to their house or some famous local feature (in the process they learn how to turn).
The next bit depends on motivation and length of trip but would normally include trimming.
Then get them to fly back to the airfield.
After shutdown answer any questions and invite kids into cockpit.
Above all build a relationship and make the trip fun, exciting and emphasise that the basics are easy to learn.
HFD
Walk out discussing a few aircraft details. Strap-in, explain harness and door/canopy catches.
Once away from dispersal discuss handover/takeover of control and get them taxiing. Consider getting them to fly the take-off (if tricycle).
Demo primary EoC and attitude in climb then get them to fly the climb.
Level-off, demo attitude and get them to fly to their house or some famous local feature (in the process they learn how to turn).
The next bit depends on motivation and length of trip but would normally include trimming.
Then get them to fly back to the airfield.
After shutdown answer any questions and invite kids into cockpit.
Above all build a relationship and make the trip fun, exciting and emphasise that the basics are easy to learn.
HFD
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A man or woman walks into a flying club. They want to experience what flying in a light aircraft is like and what can be done with a PPL.
You say that there are plenty of PPLs in the club that would gladly take them on a flight. All they would have to do is share the cost with the PPL. They could fly round the local area or even to France and back.
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A man or woman walks into a flying club. They want to learn how to fly but do not know if they will like it.
You say that they can pay as you go and the course starts with a briefing and intro to the club plus a look round the aircraft (exercises 1 and 2) and then a short flight round the local area so that they can exprience the sensations of being in the air. If they want to continue they can book their next lesson and continue to pay as they go.
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A man or woman walks into a club and wants to purchanse a present for their grandfather. They want to pay for them to be flown in an aircraft for 1 hour. If possible they want to overfly their house and have some photos. They have no intention at that stage of becomming a pilot.
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Three different situations, the last one being public transport.
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Whirly,
If you are flying an unregistered helicopter and happen to see someone in trouble which you save and are a hero. Does your subsequent heroic action make the departure in an unrgistred helicopter legal?
No. Departing on an illegal public transport flight is just as illegal no matter what the passenger decides to do after the event.
If it was OK to do public transport with no AOC then we would have 737s flying round with 170 passengers who had all signed a declaration that they would considder taking up flight training once they got back from Spain!
Again I say that exercise 1 and 2 remove any further briefing requirement from exercise 3. No amount of briefing will make a public transport operation aerial work (training).
The only reason the current situation continues is that;
a) NO AOC operator is loosing out and thus no AOC holders are complaining; and
b) There have not been enough deaths as a result of the system for the CAA to be able to swing it's axe in the face of a crumbling flight training industry.
Regards,
DFC
You say that there are plenty of PPLs in the club that would gladly take them on a flight. All they would have to do is share the cost with the PPL. They could fly round the local area or even to France and back.
-------
A man or woman walks into a flying club. They want to learn how to fly but do not know if they will like it.
You say that they can pay as you go and the course starts with a briefing and intro to the club plus a look round the aircraft (exercises 1 and 2) and then a short flight round the local area so that they can exprience the sensations of being in the air. If they want to continue they can book their next lesson and continue to pay as they go.
-------
A man or woman walks into a club and wants to purchanse a present for their grandfather. They want to pay for them to be flown in an aircraft for 1 hour. If possible they want to overfly their house and have some photos. They have no intention at that stage of becomming a pilot.
------
Three different situations, the last one being public transport.
------
Whirly,
If you are flying an unregistered helicopter and happen to see someone in trouble which you save and are a hero. Does your subsequent heroic action make the departure in an unrgistred helicopter legal?
No. Departing on an illegal public transport flight is just as illegal no matter what the passenger decides to do after the event.
If it was OK to do public transport with no AOC then we would have 737s flying round with 170 passengers who had all signed a declaration that they would considder taking up flight training once they got back from Spain!
Again I say that exercise 1 and 2 remove any further briefing requirement from exercise 3. No amount of briefing will make a public transport operation aerial work (training).
The only reason the current situation continues is that;
a) NO AOC operator is loosing out and thus no AOC holders are complaining; and
b) There have not been enough deaths as a result of the system for the CAA to be able to swing it's axe in the face of a crumbling flight training industry.
Regards,
DFC
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Life and the Law
Oh dear!
Whatever the subject the barrack room lawyers chime in.
An 'Air Experience' flight is a valid lesson. End. We all need to start somewhere. The content must always be appropiate to the student. A mix and match is normal for must syllabus exercises. Aviation Authorities around the world are quite able of understanding that. A Flying Instructor is a trained, qualified and tested professional person so why on earth would any authority choose to proscecute with regard to the content of any Trial Lesson.
I introduce the Air (get them to think of water, everyone has played with plastic ducks and things in the bath) - most people have never thought much about the air and wonder how we can swim (sorry, fly) aloft in "nothing", we MUST be defying the Gods and will come a cropper someday. No wonder they are full of fear!
I explain weight (Gravity). Most have put little thought to that either and cannot understand how anything can go up in the way we do in an aeroplane for they know that they find it so difficult to go up and cannot even jump their own height.
I explain the Bernoulli effect. Most think that we ride on an invisible mystic wave like a childs very unstable Kite. I use a spoon in the flowing water from a tap in order that they both see and feel the effect and strength of lift. If you don't know this one try it. Having done this i'm able, very simply, to explain using the model, how the flaps; Elevator, Rudder and ailerons by changing the shape (like the two sides of the spoon) alter the amount and direction of lift produced at different parts of the aeroplane causing pitch, roll and yaw around the aircraft centre of gravity (don't forget to explain that too!).
I then explain how they will use each control to fly the aeroplane themselves later and then answer any questions.
I always invite family and friends into the briefing room to participate. Most find it entertaining and whatever their reasons for attending all will have learnt so much more than they knew before they arrived - value for money.
If people look bored then revise your presentation for the future. Don't patronise by leaving things out!
Total time; 20 minutes
Whatever the subject the barrack room lawyers chime in.
An 'Air Experience' flight is a valid lesson. End. We all need to start somewhere. The content must always be appropiate to the student. A mix and match is normal for must syllabus exercises. Aviation Authorities around the world are quite able of understanding that. A Flying Instructor is a trained, qualified and tested professional person so why on earth would any authority choose to proscecute with regard to the content of any Trial Lesson.
I introduce the Air (get them to think of water, everyone has played with plastic ducks and things in the bath) - most people have never thought much about the air and wonder how we can swim (sorry, fly) aloft in "nothing", we MUST be defying the Gods and will come a cropper someday. No wonder they are full of fear!
I explain weight (Gravity). Most have put little thought to that either and cannot understand how anything can go up in the way we do in an aeroplane for they know that they find it so difficult to go up and cannot even jump their own height.
I explain the Bernoulli effect. Most think that we ride on an invisible mystic wave like a childs very unstable Kite. I use a spoon in the flowing water from a tap in order that they both see and feel the effect and strength of lift. If you don't know this one try it. Having done this i'm able, very simply, to explain using the model, how the flaps; Elevator, Rudder and ailerons by changing the shape (like the two sides of the spoon) alter the amount and direction of lift produced at different parts of the aeroplane causing pitch, roll and yaw around the aircraft centre of gravity (don't forget to explain that too!).
I then explain how they will use each control to fly the aeroplane themselves later and then answer any questions.
I always invite family and friends into the briefing room to participate. Most find it entertaining and whatever their reasons for attending all will have learnt so much more than they knew before they arrived - value for money.
If people look bored then revise your presentation for the future. Don't patronise by leaving things out!
Total time; 20 minutes
Why do it if it's not fun?
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DFC,
Please find me an AOC-holder who will offer me a flight over my house or a prominent local feature, and let me take control for the majority of the flight. In fact, find me an SOP which will allow that.
The fact that the flight over-flies the student's house or a prominent feature does not mean it is not a lesson - it is all part of the experience of flying, since that's what private flying as all about. The fact that the person doing the course might not want to continue does not matter - I've had students who want to go solo but no further, but the fact that they only want to do part of the course does not make what I do with them any less instructional than a student who goes through the whole course, and likewise what you do with a trial lesson who has no intention of coming back need not be less instructional because they are not coming back. Who pays for the flight has no bearing on the content of the flight.
There are well-documented stories of AOC holders getting into serious trouble for letting non-pilots handle the controls - even experienced crew members such as cabin crew, let alone the general public. I can only think of one person in two years of doing trial lessons who didn't want to touch the controls at all - every other trial lesson flight I've done, the majority of which you say should have been public transport, I say would have been illegal under public transport rules, but are perfectly valid lessons.
FFF
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Please find me an AOC-holder who will offer me a flight over my house or a prominent local feature, and let me take control for the majority of the flight. In fact, find me an SOP which will allow that.
The fact that the flight over-flies the student's house or a prominent feature does not mean it is not a lesson - it is all part of the experience of flying, since that's what private flying as all about. The fact that the person doing the course might not want to continue does not matter - I've had students who want to go solo but no further, but the fact that they only want to do part of the course does not make what I do with them any less instructional than a student who goes through the whole course, and likewise what you do with a trial lesson who has no intention of coming back need not be less instructional because they are not coming back. Who pays for the flight has no bearing on the content of the flight.
There are well-documented stories of AOC holders getting into serious trouble for letting non-pilots handle the controls - even experienced crew members such as cabin crew, let alone the general public. I can only think of one person in two years of doing trial lessons who didn't want to touch the controls at all - every other trial lesson flight I've done, the majority of which you say should have been public transport, I say would have been illegal under public transport rules, but are perfectly valid lessons.
FFF
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FFF,
Having a go does not make it a lesson. By the same token, having a go does not make Public Transport illegal. It all depends on what is in the ops manual,if passengers are being carried and so on.
There are some AOC operators providing air experience flights already.Tigers etc are used and participants can have a go provided that the requirments in the ops manual are observed.
Remember that to train pilots you must have an FTO unless you have an AOC. (RTF for PPL level training which does not require FTO)
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If the idea is that the trial lesson will gather new flyers into the school then that is a complete failure. Less than 5% will do any further lessons.
Why?
Look at how they are done;
You turn up, fill in some forms and wait round for a bit. Some person takes you into a small room and talks about lots and lots of technical stuff before quickly whisking you out to an awaiting aircraft of which you know nothing about. You take to the air and after a brief instruction you get a go. This is followed by a bumpy droning flight to a point where you with help from the instructor manage to see the vicinity of your house and than back to the airfield where the instructor lands the aircraft. Time for a bit of paper and some written info and a thanks please call again before the instructor walks away to greet some other poor sod.
I am surprised that even 5% of people want to continue.
What will attract people to flying is having an idea of what they can do after they get their licence and both liking that idea and using it as a goal to keep them going during the hard times of training lows.
There should be more time spent on getting across what the prospective pilot can do with their licence when they get it. A few trips with a capable PPL would do far more for promoting the club training than any 30 minute trial lesson and would cost far less. If that can not be arranged then at least a good briefing on the club, it's facilities, it's acheivements, it's members and so on is essential.
With only 5 or less in every 100 students getting past exercise 3 and some even doing it a number of times there must be one of two posibilities;
The instructor / training organisation are totally incompetent; or
The majority of students were there with no intention of doing anything more than the cheap jolly (public transport) flight.
Most of the new start PPL students (with no commercial aspirations) will have been a passenger with another pilot and liked the idea or traveled on business trips and liked the idea or they simply have a desire to fly and have contacted the club for further information. Note that none of those will come to the club via a 3rd party seller such as the famous name associated with the red letter day term.
I could bet that if 5% of trial lessons convert into students. less than 1% of those will have purchased a 3rd party voucher.
Thus one could argue, why bother doing any pre briefing at all. Do a safety briefing at the aircraft, explain in the air what the passenger needs to know to have a go and keep it at that. There are organisations out there that do that.
Would a 10 minute trial lesson that the student purchased and was introduced to the instructor in the aircraft, departed, flew a circuit, landed and then left the instructor in the aircraft be public transport?
Regards,
DFC
Having a go does not make it a lesson. By the same token, having a go does not make Public Transport illegal. It all depends on what is in the ops manual,if passengers are being carried and so on.
There are some AOC operators providing air experience flights already.Tigers etc are used and participants can have a go provided that the requirments in the ops manual are observed.
Remember that to train pilots you must have an FTO unless you have an AOC. (RTF for PPL level training which does not require FTO)
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If the idea is that the trial lesson will gather new flyers into the school then that is a complete failure. Less than 5% will do any further lessons.
Why?
Look at how they are done;
You turn up, fill in some forms and wait round for a bit. Some person takes you into a small room and talks about lots and lots of technical stuff before quickly whisking you out to an awaiting aircraft of which you know nothing about. You take to the air and after a brief instruction you get a go. This is followed by a bumpy droning flight to a point where you with help from the instructor manage to see the vicinity of your house and than back to the airfield where the instructor lands the aircraft. Time for a bit of paper and some written info and a thanks please call again before the instructor walks away to greet some other poor sod.
I am surprised that even 5% of people want to continue.
What will attract people to flying is having an idea of what they can do after they get their licence and both liking that idea and using it as a goal to keep them going during the hard times of training lows.
There should be more time spent on getting across what the prospective pilot can do with their licence when they get it. A few trips with a capable PPL would do far more for promoting the club training than any 30 minute trial lesson and would cost far less. If that can not be arranged then at least a good briefing on the club, it's facilities, it's acheivements, it's members and so on is essential.
With only 5 or less in every 100 students getting past exercise 3 and some even doing it a number of times there must be one of two posibilities;
The instructor / training organisation are totally incompetent; or
The majority of students were there with no intention of doing anything more than the cheap jolly (public transport) flight.
Most of the new start PPL students (with no commercial aspirations) will have been a passenger with another pilot and liked the idea or traveled on business trips and liked the idea or they simply have a desire to fly and have contacted the club for further information. Note that none of those will come to the club via a 3rd party seller such as the famous name associated with the red letter day term.
I could bet that if 5% of trial lessons convert into students. less than 1% of those will have purchased a 3rd party voucher.
Thus one could argue, why bother doing any pre briefing at all. Do a safety briefing at the aircraft, explain in the air what the passenger needs to know to have a go and keep it at that. There are organisations out there that do that.
Would a 10 minute trial lesson that the student purchased and was introduced to the instructor in the aircraft, departed, flew a circuit, landed and then left the instructor in the aircraft be public transport?
Regards,
DFC
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Dear DFC:
1-I didn't specify any exercice number on my post, i did say though, effect of controls, keeping it very simple, so not the whole exercice brieffing, just the basics for the person to be able to have the controls during the flight..
2-Nobody is trying to make legal anything, but for sure, if you wanna have them on the controls, even if it's for a few seconds, you need to BRIEFF them on how the controls work, wherever exercice that falls in shouldn't matter much.
3-Brieffing the person does not make the trial flight legal, in the other hand , not brieffing at all will make it ilegal.
We are not discusing the legality of trial flights here, and my comment wasn't intending to discuss the issue with you or anybody, the comment aimed to make sure whirlybird knows what is at stake if he does not brieff his potential students before the flight.
1-I didn't specify any exercice number on my post, i did say though, effect of controls, keeping it very simple, so not the whole exercice brieffing, just the basics for the person to be able to have the controls during the flight..
2-Nobody is trying to make legal anything, but for sure, if you wanna have them on the controls, even if it's for a few seconds, you need to BRIEFF them on how the controls work, wherever exercice that falls in shouldn't matter much.
3-Brieffing the person does not make the trial flight legal, in the other hand , not brieffing at all will make it ilegal.
We are not discusing the legality of trial flights here, and my comment wasn't intending to discuss the issue with you or anybody, the comment aimed to make sure whirlybird knows what is at stake if he does not brieff his potential students before the flight.
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How about this for a trial lesson..brief the person and wife..go for wizz off to another airfield..land..have a cuppa... and return. Said person has a go at landing and taking off and all in between. All go away happy as larry..
A good t/l or what?
And is shown a practical use for an aircraft other than flying around in circles.
If you test drive a Ferrari do you go around the block or go for a blast down the motorway?
A good t/l or what?
And is shown a practical use for an aircraft other than flying around in circles.
If you test drive a Ferrari do you go around the block or go for a blast down the motorway?
The Original Whirly
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BigEndBob,
Great idea; unfortunately there's often not time. Anyway, helicopters are different....which is why I often spend a bit of time demonstrating hovering, quickstops, how you'd get into a confined area, and basically the fact that we don't have to be more than a few feet above the ground to have a lot of fun.
I agree. I don't want to get into legal issues, because that's a whole other huge subject. But for R22 helicopters at least, you HAVE to give some sort of briefing, even if it's only to tell a potentially cackhanded individual twice my size that if he shoves the cyclic sharply forward he will unload the rotors and probably kill us! But after that? More? How much more? I thought it might make for a useful discussion, that's all.
LEVC, by the way, just for the sake of accuracy, I'm not a "he"; I'm one of the other sort.
Not many of us here I know, so no worries.
Great idea; unfortunately there's often not time. Anyway, helicopters are different....which is why I often spend a bit of time demonstrating hovering, quickstops, how you'd get into a confined area, and basically the fact that we don't have to be more than a few feet above the ground to have a lot of fun.
We are not discusing the legality of trial flights here, and my comment wasn't intending to discuss the issue with you or anybody, the comment aimed to make sure whirlybird knows what is at stake if he does not brieff his potential students before the flight.
LEVC, by the way, just for the sake of accuracy, I'm not a "he"; I'm one of the other sort.
Not many of us here I know, so no worries.
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Funnily enough I do exactly the same as Whirly. . The school likes a bit more classroom time but I judge that by the level of glazed expressions.
Fixed wing just seems to be another world.
As far as the legality of it all goes; why would anyone want to change things when they work fine as they are? A half hour public transport trip would cost a fortune not to mention the paperwork.
Sending a PPL in an R22 with a nervous/jumpy trial lesson does not even bear thinking about!
Last year - R22, PPL with father-in-law, camera strap, cyclic . .
Lighten up DFC
Fixed wing just seems to be another world.
As far as the legality of it all goes; why would anyone want to change things when they work fine as they are? A half hour public transport trip would cost a fortune not to mention the paperwork.
Sending a PPL in an R22 with a nervous/jumpy trial lesson does not even bear thinking about!
Last year - R22, PPL with father-in-law, camera strap, cyclic . .
Lighten up DFC
The issue of Public Transport is surely one of expectation. If you are seeking to be transported from A to B then you expect to do so safely and on that basis all of the AOC protection is put into place.
If you go to a flying club you must expect a slightly higher element of risk, it is not set up to public transport standards and generallly operates as a recreational activity. If you go to a flying club for a trial lesson flight or whatever you want to call it then you should be aware of that risk (albeit small). The actual content of the flight is semantics.
The person who walks into WH Smiths and buys a voucher has no concept of flying clubs or what they are about, if the did, they would save their money and go directly to the club. These people turn up with a greater expectation of a safe flight whilst an organisation who has no interest in flying, makes a lot of money out of a club activity. I would call that illegal public transport.
If you go to a flying club you must expect a slightly higher element of risk, it is not set up to public transport standards and generallly operates as a recreational activity. If you go to a flying club for a trial lesson flight or whatever you want to call it then you should be aware of that risk (albeit small). The actual content of the flight is semantics.
The person who walks into WH Smiths and buys a voucher has no concept of flying clubs or what they are about, if the did, they would save their money and go directly to the club. These people turn up with a greater expectation of a safe flight whilst an organisation who has no interest in flying, makes a lot of money out of a club activity. I would call that illegal public transport.
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Originally Posted by LEVC
in the other hand , not brieffing at all will make it ilegal.
With that in mind, and the fact that the sylabus requires no technical briefing for exercise 3 and also requires no amount of instruction, how would operating within the requirements of the approved sylabus cause a flight to be illegal?
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Whirley,
I agree that helicopters are a different ball game when it comes to letting the unfamiliar get their hands on a control.
The point I am trying to make is that many clubs do a long winded boring unnecessary briefing because they know they are operating at the fringe of legality and want to some how try and make themselves feel better.
Unfortunately the result is that some who would have given it a go are put right off by all the technical rubbish.
Back to basics, perhaps we need to put the elements of a briefing under the old "Must Know", "Need to Know", Nice to Know", "Don't need to know".
Regards,
DFC
