Engine Failure Drills

[Astronomy Dominie]

Would a few of you be kind enough to detail what you would teach or expect as engine failure drills in a light single, assuming a normally-aspirated carburetted engine? I'm only interested in the drills caried out in an effort to re-start, not the subsequent securing or forced landing drills.

(I'm not hoping to start an argument, by the way, just seeking to test the water...)

[Foz2]

I'm not an instructor but I was taught (C152):

1)Trim for 65kts, look for a field and plan descent.

2)Carb heat on

3)Mixture (check rich)

4)Throttle Exercise

5) Fuel (check on)

6) Primer (in and locked)

7)Mags (check on both)

If it cannot be restarted then the Mayday call, squawk 7700, and go through the shut down checks etc

Why don't you have a look at the checklist for that aircraft???


Cheers

Foz

[Keygrip]

My money is on carb heat on first - as suggested in the duplicate thread running in Private Flying.

A.D. - please - only one copy of any thread. Don't duplicate in secondary forums.

[GARDENER]

Gotta agree with Keygrip. Carb heat first, must make the most of the heat radiating from the manifold before it cools.

[cfimei]

and DONT loose sight of your intended landing spot! fussing around in the cockpit too long and you look up to find the spot gone - divide your attention inside and outside.

G
FAA ATP/CFI Gold Seal

[fireflybob]

Well there is, as they say, more than one way of "skinning a cat" but if we want to encourage "thinking" pilots it would rather depend on the nature of the failure.

If there has been a big bang and there is a conrod sticking through the cowling there aint much mileage in checking round for cause of failure.

If the enging has simply run down and the prop is still windmilling then perhaps it's fuel in which case put the pump on and change tanks (irrespective of indicated contents), maybe also check the mixture is rich.

If it's rough running/partial loss of power then perhaps it's carb ice or a u/s mag etc.

But in reality its also a question of time and priorities. If you are at FL 100 when the engine fails you might have many more options and perhaps plenty of time to do some troubleshooting and try a restart.

On the other hand, if you are at 1,500 agl you may not have any time to do a trouble finding check - the number one priority in any a/c is to maintain safe control and concentrate in getting into you planned field etc.

I am not against having a methodical approach to this issue but I think the question is a bit loaded towards the wrong priorities in the event of an engine failure.

Finally, I often initiate practice forced landings by advising the student he has a rough running engine and/or throttle back to 2,000 rpm say and tell him/her that this is the maximum revs available rather than just closing the throttle completely. I think this approach tends to get them thinking about the issues of engine failure more deeply.

[LD Max]

Good advice already given all round on this one. However, I would add that the definitive answer lies in the emergency drills in the POH or approved checklist for your type of aircraft. The immediate actions should be memorised, followed by the "what's up" which (if time permits) can be actioned from the checklist.

I would personally favour a formalised approach, since the variables that "Fireflybob", (quite rightly), considers, can still be covered.

>> inserted: Lest I forget, during practice don't forget you are NOT absolved from the low flying rules: in particular "Not within 500 ft of any person, vehicle, vessel or structure except when taking off or landing according to normal aviation practice."

This means that unless you are conforming to the normal traffic pattern of an airfield, and are making standard calls to that airfield, and (if a controlled airfield) you have received clearance to land, you MUST plan to go-around at or above 500ft agl.

Of course in a real emergency the low flying rules do not count, but don't forget to scan the approach for obstacles.<<

In general I was taught that an engine failure is followed by the immediate actions and then the silent question, "Is there any sign of fire or mechanical failure?" This question can be verbalised to the instructor / examiner since he is setting the training scenario, but in real life should be the first question which enters your mind.

The answer to the silent question determines your following actions:

In general, the immediate (memory) items would be:

Carb Heat ON

Select the attitude required for best glide speed (Vg)

Select a field within a distance equivalent to an arc drawn from where the nose would be in the normal straight and level attitude, around to the wingtips and turn towards it:

(In choosing a field, use the 5 "esses")

Size
Shape
Surface
Slope
Surroundings

Another two I would add are:
Sheep (or cows etc)
Survivability (land near habitation if possible)

While selecting and turning towards the field, ask yourself the question, "Any sign of fire or mechanical failure?" As CFIMEI quite rightly points out, divide your attention inside and out, and above all maintain control of the aircraft. Don't forget the 3 golden rules "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate", in that order.

If a fire, then close all cabin vents (or as defined in the POH) and make all turns away from the fire, e.g. if the fire is coming from the left side of the cowling, then make all turns to the right. In either case of fire or mechanical failure you should then start running the shut down drills immediately.

Carb Heat OFF
Fuel Pump OFF
Fuel Selector OFF
Mags OFF
Unnecessary Electrics OFF
Squawk 7700
Passenger Brief (crash drill)

If time / workload permits and no sign of fire or mechanical failure, then run the "What's up" drills:

Primer LOCKED
Fuel Pump ON
Change tanks (or fuel selector on Both)
Mags ON BOTH
Mixture, Exercise then RICH (or set for smoothest running)
Throttle, Exercise then FULL (or set for smoothest running)
Carb Heat, Exercise then ON (or set for smoothest running)
If prop stopped, Starter CRANK

But importantly, If at or below about 1,500 feet, or you have a high workload in maintaining safe control of the aircraft, or the "what's up" drills have failed to restart the engine, then proceed directly to the shut down drills as above.

In all cases, plan your descent to land into wind using the techniques you have been instructed in. (e.g. constant reference point technique etc)

When time permits, TX "Mayday" on current ATC frequency or 121.5

Station called (or "All Stations")
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY
Who you are (e.g. N1234A)
What you are (e.g. Cessna 152)
What's up (e.g. Engine Failure with Fire)
Where you are (e.g. approximately 5 miles southwest of Massey Ranch, passing altitude 2,000 feet and descending)
Where you're going (e.g. Emergency Landing on farmland adjacent to I-95, near a mast and a small lake)
POB (e.g. 2 Persons on Board)
Request (e.g. Request Fire service and ground assistance ASAP)

After the shut down drills have been performed, then the final approach checks should be along the lines of:

Gear Down and Locked (as appropriate - and this might get done earlier according to the POH if an engine failure warrants manual deployment)
Master / Alternator OFF (when below 500ft AGL and on a Cessna when finished with electric flaps)
Harnesses SECURE
Exit Door OPEN (and allow to trail open.)
Passenger command "BRACE BRACE BRACE"

Practice: Go around by 500ft or Touchdown (if a real emergency or conducting the approach according to normal aviation practice into an airfield.)

The point at which you kill the Master / Alternator electrics is open to some debate. I was always of the opinion (and it is no more than an opinion) that once the electric flaps are deployed and the Radio has been finished with, then the one remaining concern is your visibility to ATC while squawking 7700. But below about 500 feet AGL it is unlikely that you will be on radar anymore so this would be a good time to kill the Master. This would normally be around the base to final turn if the profile is approximating a normal glide approach.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

[Menen]

LD Max. Run that by me again, please. From which authority comes this advice of turn left or right depending on which side of the engine cowl the fire is seen?

I must admit that I have never heard of that little gem. So if the forced landing field you have spotted is on the left of the aircraft and the smoke is coming from the left side of the engine, then it would seem against normal rules of airmanship to deliberately carry out a turn away from the field simply because of smoke/fire etc.

Is your information from the aircraft type manufacturer's POH and if so, which specific type of aircraft are you referring to?

If you mean that the aircraft should be sidelipped in order to direct smoke/flames away from the aircraft as much as possible - then that is another story altogether. As long as you remember that some high wing types can bunt over violently if more than a certain amount of flap is extended during a strong sideslip manoeuvre.

The C150/172 series comes to mind where flap extension can shield the tailplane area in a sideslip resulting in tailplane and elevator loss of effectiveness.

Anyone that has time on Cessna 150/152 aircraft will be aware that very often the fuel valve will be either stiff to turn off or more usually completely jammed on. This is because pilots rarely exercise the fuel valve by closing it after close down from a normal flight.

A stiff fuel valve should reported in the technical sheet for rectification before next flight. If the fuel valve is immovable then the aircraft is deemed unairworthy.

A engine fire in the air is deadly if you cannot turn off the fuel valve. Don't ever leave it for the next poor blighter to find out.

[aces low]

500ft rule

LD max "during practice don't forget you are NOT absolved from the low flying rules: in particular "Not within 500 ft of any person, vehicle, vessel or structure except when taking off or landing according to normal aviation practice."

This means that unless you are conforming to the normal traffic pattern of an airfield, and are making standard calls to that airfield, and (if a controlled airfield) you have received clearance to land, you MUST plan to go-around at or above 500ft agl".


Except the 500' applies to horizontal as well as vertical distance. I.e. you can descend down to ground level in the open FIR...as long as you keep 500' away from an structure person etc. ) i also apply this to cattle in real life). There is no reason to restrict PFLs to 500'...some examiners wont! Just watch out for obstacles and buildings on the climb out!

[LD Max]

Menen, It's a good point you make.

This was the procedure taught to me during my JAA CPL training which was conducted in a PA28R-200 (Piper Arrow).

The logic is that it is a case of prioritising the risks, and the risk of the aircraft being consumed by fire in the air is of more critical importance than turning towards the ideal landing area.

If the landing field is on the left and the smoke / fire is coming from the left, then by turning left (whether sideslipping or not) would direct the relative air flow towards the fire, and thus into the cowling and towards the source of fuel.

Turns to the right, however, will direct the relative airflow into the cowling from the opposite side of the fire, and thus tend to blow the flames away from the source of fuel towards the outside of the aircraft.

In practice this might, (for example), mean the difference between making a right hand circuit for a landing as opposed to the normal left hand traffic pattern, so it may not be as fundamentally against standard airmanship as it first appears.

But, the priority with a fire is to land as rapidly as possible. So the selection of a field would logically be a lot closer than one might select if the engine just stopped for no apparent reason. In fact, an emergency spiral descent, making turns away from the fire might be considered the most appropriate, keeping the turns tight to keep the field in close proximity.

In general, (subject again to the POH), an emergency descent procedure does not involve a sideslip, (unless perhaps to make the threshold when on a high final approach), but rather Extension of gear and full flap below Vlo and Vfe, and then pitching to maintain Vfe while making steep turns.

This would satisfy the requirement to lose altitude rapidly, keeping in proximity of your intended landing area, while using the relative airflow to keep the fire outside of the aircraft.

I would agree, however, (and said so at the start of my previous post), that the POH or (Company Operations Manual) would define the exact procedure to be used for your type of aircraft. However, turns away from the source of fire are fairly standard emergency drills, and I have seen them taught quite commonly.

However I would say, one of the core skills a student pilot needs to acquire is the ability to prioritise risks in the face of each particular emergency, in order to reach the appropriate decisions at the time. Given the choice of landing at a Tarmac airfield 1 mile to my left, (with attendant fire services), or the ploughed field below, I would have to carefully assess my options. In the case of a severe engine fire, with visible flames, I think the ploughed field may certainly be worth considering. In the case of smoke, but no visible flames, perhaps I would be tempted to go for the airfield while making turns opposite to the side the smoke is coming from.

This is why computers will never replace pilots in the cockpit.

I note your further comments regarding stuck fuel valves, and agree with you that the aircraft should not be in the air in the first place if that were the case. Good pre-flight checks should pick up these sort of things, and if experienced yourself in flight should definately be written up.

Aces Low, I was referring to landings at a regular airfield, so the 500ft rule would apply vertically. You are right with respect to "green field" PFLs, but remember that a fence is a structure, so it would have to be a big field! In general, given your warnings about obstacles during the climbout, I think it good aviation practice to go around at 500'. As far as examiners are concerned, then the student should express his intention to go around by 500ft to demonstrate his knowledge. If the examiner overrides it, so be it.

[BraceBrace]

General remark... There is a difference between simulated engine failure, real engine failure, and certainly engine fire. Simulated engine failure is about the only time the engine really quites right then and there. Real engine failures will probably come slowly, some noises, some engine struggles, some "what's happening here, what is it doing? Is it failing? Something else?". The danger here is that in this sudden moment of "increasing stress", the student might forget temporarily everything that has been thougth, since the engine is doing "weird". He will even forget to fly! Looking down at the engine instruments, trying to figure it out, coming back up noticing his aicraft is in a turning dive... This is something every student should be made aware of. If he isn't, try to bring him into a position where he's put under a lot of stress. Then see how he reacts, he'll probably forget lots of things. In the debrief, point this out.

Concerning the procedures: I've noticed some go for the carburator first. If it's in the POH, fine. POH is POH. But as said, first things first. FLY, FLY, FLY. As my first instructor stated: even if some parts of your cabin are on fire, flying the aircraft is vital. It's the difference between burns on the legs or dead legs. Airspeed always comes first. Best glide if necessary. THEN the rest.

Second is decision making combined with good time management. What is happening? Can you really say what is happening? Do you have time to find out? Take a SAFE decision. Do I need to try carby? What about engine failure at 500'AGL after takeoff? FLY, then DECIDE course of action. Time for carby, ok, then go with the carby. Landing immediatly? Enough altitude for restart? It's better to safely land an aircraft with iced up carby, than crashing with the carby on with a report "they tried...".

Engine fires are even trickier since I doubt if the engine would quit anyway. And where would the smoke exit? Tailpipe? Cockpit?

I'm only writing this down because I've seen a friend of mine fail his check because he "quickly tried to", forgetting 5 seconds to fly and scr*w up the emergency landing. I got the exact same thing, with a 30kts wind on the ground (headwind on landing), threw away my checklists but my wheels hit ground right there where he wanted me to. I thought I failed as well, I only set the 7700 and did a very brief mayday. His reaction: "your friend and I crashed, you and I are alive, aircraft in one piece, why should I fail you?" Perhaps the engine could've been restarted but... perhaps not... you don't know. And it's a question that only needs to be asked if you have the time for it.

There is only one thing that requires your time at all times: flying. If after this there's time left, go with the rest. Trying to work yourself very very quickly through the checklists might even impose more stress on yourself. This in a situation where you'r not really sure what's happening... bad idea. And I doubt if every PPL-owner is that cold-blooded in face of a struggling engine.

As for the restart procedures (cherokee II):
A (airspeed)
B (best field)
C (cockpit)
* fuel selector (tank with fuel? try switch)
* fuel pump on
* mixture (rich)
* carby (on)
* mags
* check engine gauges
* primer locked?

It never states to activate the starter (prop will be windmilling, complete stop would be a severe engine damage I presume), but I think I might have a go with that one anyway in the end. Or would this be a bad idea?

[LD Max]

Brace Brace: The most valid point you make is about Flying the Aircraft First and foremost. I would certainly agree with you about that, and definately distractions during training are good practice. I have heard of examiners dropping their pen during the final stages of a glide approach and asking the student to retrieve it! (Good game!)

However, referring to your criticism of applying carb heat first, I would suggest that you consider the most common cause of engine failure is due to carb icing. This indeed would present itself initially as a drop in RPM, which MAY worsen to include rough running. Carb heat should be applied any time carb ice is anticipated or suspected and this may well sort things out before the engine actually quits.

But if the engine DOES quit, then ANY delay in applying carb heat will render the procedure useless as the exhaust temperature will plummet rapidly. This is why it is the first thing on the memory items and it really does not take more than a second to accomplish.

The second thing is to select Vg.

The last thing is to select a field and while doing so, evaluate whether you have a fire or mechanical failure since this may well determine your direction of turns and certainly your next actions.

There should be no hesitation about applying carb heat, if you even so much as suspect your engine is going to quit, because you NEED all that heat from the exhaust before it disappears for good!

If time permits, and you get into the "What's up" drills, then you would have the luxury of experimenting with different carb heat, mixture and throttle settings to get the smoothest running out of a sick engine.

But in essence I'm with you all the way on the importance of flying the aircraft first and not letting your head get inside the cockpit at the expense of what's outside.

Oh, and before I forget... about cranking the engine.
Good idea IF the prop has stopped. Don't do it if the prop is turning because a) it's unnecessary and b) The starter could jam in the flywheel making matters worse.

Why would the prop stop? Well in your average cessna or warrior it probably wouldn't - as you say.

But it does depend a bit on the circumstances and the aircraft, so it would be wrong to assume that it would never happen for the purposes of a check list. Hence the phrase "If prop stopped then Crank".

Some possible causes: New engine with tight bearings and piston rings, engine quits in slow flight or during a climb before attitude recovered sufficiently to keep the prop windmilling.

High compression ratio, or partially seized bearings or services, low oil pressure, constant speed govenor loses oil or partial pressure... any number of things. Perhaps you feathered it already and given the time decided to give the restart another go, (common procedure in Multi Engine).

[BraceBrace]

Very good point on the carburator heat indeed LD Max.

[Flyingspaniard]

Too much thinking not enough doing!

Disagree with some of the comments here, not in the technical reasoning behind the actions, but more in the faith in the abilities of a student or newbie to think logically in the face of a real emergency. I think too much emphasis is put on teaching a certain order of checks and on fault diagnosis whilst suffering engine failure.

I believe that when thinking capacity decreases i.e. in an emergency, pilots will revert back to the procedures they learnt when they first trained. It has been proven in many an AAIB report that this is the case. Therefore I think its better to drum into a student a drill that works well in all situations so that when he's 5hitting himself with an engine failure he has an automatic drill to fall back on.

For the restarts I like the US approach of teaching the sweep checks (the student moves his arm from bottom left (fuel starvation being the primary cause of engine failure - as opposed to rough running) up and around to the throttle quadrant and then down to between the front seats, performing the necessary actions as he works his way around) as these work well in many aircraft from Cessnas to Arrows and placing your hands on the controls will jog the memory too.

I have seen from both sides the differences in people (including myself) who think they are simulating a failure and those that think they are in a real situation. I myself never panicked when doing my training and usually got the PFLs about right finding my field and completing the checks. However when it happened for real on my second flight as a newly qualified PPL, the adrenalin was really pumping and I certainly didn't have spare capacity for asking questions about whether I should operate the starter or not; is the oil pressure too low causing the engine to stop windmilling; do I operate carb heat first, second, or third; is there smoke coming from the left or the right etc. All I could remember was my instructor saying trim for the glide, where's the wind, pick a field, do your restarts etc. Trying to do the restart checks, I recall how difficult I found it to remember what came where. My PPL instuctor always said to me the engine needs fuel, a spark and air. So when doing the checks I went to the mixture (normal), alternator? (it was on! don't ask why I checked this), throttle, finally carb heat which cured the problem. And I have also seen PPLs on a check ride trying to do restart checks during EFATO.

The point I'm trying to make is that yes all these options are open to us and its good to discuss the why's and think about them here on pprune in a calm state of mind. When you have time to think you'd expect most student pilots of average ability to come to the same conclusions.

In the air, unless you're experienced you'll not have the capacity to think about these things and discern from the symptoms what actions to perform first. You'll just have to perform them quickly and properly.

In my first incident according to how I was taught, I should have thought, fuel - ah well thats the fuel valve, fuel pump on, proper tank selected, primer in and locked, mixture rich. A spark - obviously meant magnetos, but I for some reason was thinking about the alternator, finally air - throttle and carb. I was supposed to think these through logically but I didn't - my mind farted and by trial and error I eventually got to the problem.

My instructor during checkflights did something that I now do from time to time which may be controversial but certainly gets the point accross. On the way back from the GH exercise at a good altitude I'll quietly turn the cessna's fuel valve to the half way position. Engine starts to run rough after about 10secs, and I will look just as surprised as the pilot being checked. Some people will go to their drills and execute the actions perfectly, others will have seen me close the valve and they too will not have any problems, however on four or five occasions I've seen them completely forgetting the picking of a field, leaving the speed at 90 knots, rush through random checks missing out a couple of vital ones before attempting to make a mayday at which point of course I stop them and turn the fuel back on.

I do agree about carb heat being necessary as it is one of the first causes of a rough running engine, however although the engine could stop in the very worst case I think it highly unlikely and so I'm not overly concerned with there being no exhaust heat if he leaves the carb till his second or third restart check. I teach that carb ice should be assumed anytime you have to alter the throttle settings, where MP or RPM have reduced from what it was set at. I harp on about carb heat on every flight with repeated nagging about doing Fredas every ten - fifteen minutes or after every waypoint whichevers sooner and they should include the full engine checks i.e. Carb ice, Ts and Ps, Alternator, Suction and fuel px (first 1 and last 3 often left out). I often criticise the check itself where a student will leave Carb H on for 3 sec and then turn it off again leaving nowhere near enough time to melt any ice.

In conclusion I say leave the logical fault diagnosis to those who have the experience and know how to come to the right decisions in an emergency. But for those that are students going first solo xcountry or inexperienced PPLs let them be "thinking" before an emergency (good checks and situational awareness can't be emphasised enough) or when they're safe on the ground after the event. I'll feel better knowing that in an emergency the student I've signed off to go xcountry will remember simple automatic drills that will work even if at the time they can't remember why they are doing them. The more capacity they have for flying and landing safely the better.

[vetflyer]

In the case of an engine fire , what speed you you select to decend at? Vg or Vfe or Vvery fast

Ps i was taught to turn away from flames ,also to consider side slipping to haste decend

[LD Max]

With an engine fire, certainly descend as quickly as possible. Max drag configuration (Gear down, Full Flap), and set airspeed for Vfe.

Certainly a sideslip would increase ROD and so would steep turns. Depends where your landing target is, but if it's 2,000 feet vertically below, then I would use steep turns to descend at Vfe above target, and sideslip in on a high final approach.

Your call really.

Just smoke....? Well PIC has to make the decision whether he has a fire or not. If not a fire, then the drills are aimed at a possible restart and to maximise your time in the air to glide to that ideal piece of tarmac. If you decide you have the time to glide, then you would be in a Minimum Drag configuration (Gear retracted, Flaps up, Cowl flaps closed etc), and select the attitude for Vg.

But again it is very much your call whether you treat smoke as an engine fire, as it may very well turn into one if it isn't already. On the other hand, if you'd had a fire and the shutdown drills were completed successfully, then while you are descending like a brick it may well be that the fire goes out, leaving just some smoke! If so, then certainly consider changing configuration back from max descent to best glide, and re-evaluate your options.

The checklists only tell you what to do once your decisions have been made. They don't tell you how to make decisions, or how to re-evaluate your decisions as things develop.

[hugh flung_dung]

Logically it's most important to get the field and speed sorted as a first priority whilst there is most time (ie height) available, other drills can then be gone through whilst in the forced landing pattern to the field that hopefully won't be needed. The drill sequence should be driven by the most common causes of engine failure: carb ice and running out of fuel in the selected tank.

Therefore:
- Turn into wind whilst adopting attitude for best glide and trimming
- Pick field, plan pattern (constant aspect method works every time)
- If no fire: Carb heat, pump on, change tank, mix rich, Mags on, primer locked
- If fire: fuel off, hot/cold air off

A question that has often been debated in the bar ... if the aircraft is burning there are 2 choices:
- fly very fast to blow the fire out and burn (!) energy to get on the ground faster - but this will give the fire more oxygen and therefore make it hotter (and aluminium melts at a surprisingly low temperature), or
- fly slowly to minimise oxygen supply (and therefore fire temperature) whilst sideslipping to minimise the heat reaching the fuselage - but this increases the airborne time.
... which is best ?? Can anyone point to any research?

HFD

[LD Max]

FlyingSpaniard: You make a very good point, and of course having experienced a real engine failure you are in the best position to describe the workload in that situation.

I regret(?) (well I don't actually, but I hope you get my meaning), that I have never experienced one for real myself. However I do remember my own early PPL days, and the FREDA checks were enough to shut down my speech centres. I would quite litterally sound drunk on the radio giving, "midwind downfield", calls in the circuit and reading back the runway numbers back to front.

So along with most other pilots I can certainly imagine the adreneline surge as the engine sputters to a halt, and the mental turmoil as half your brain jumps out of your skull on a parachute and leaves Neanderthal Man as PIC going "Ug" at whatever he recalls from his checklist.

The thing about workload is that checklist actions are a skill as much as any other aspect of flying. The more we practice them the better we get, and the more automatic it becomes.

There are only 3 memory items I listed:

1) Carb Heat
2) Vg
3) Select Field

Then the question of: "Any sign of fire or mechanical failure?"

Now ALL the remaining drills "should" be read off the sheet, and certainly a CPL would be expected to do this.

But assuming (for PPL purposes) that's floating around the luggage compartment where it was chucked just after the takeoff checks, then it can all be summarised as follows:

4) Fly the aircraft and plan your descent as circumstances allow.

5) FIRE: Switch everything OFF and descend as quickly as possible. Land where able

6) No Fire: Switch everything ON and change tanks.

Not really so difficult.

The more it is practiced, the more we can take those generalised statements and explore them a bit further. For example, selecting a field and the 5 esses...

But God knows, I sometimes struggle to remember HASELL when the workload is high... (was the "A" for Airports or Airframe?). But this should not deter us from teaching this in the classroom, and endeavouring to put as much of it into practice as possible during the exercises.

IMHO, the more that sticks, the better when it comes to the real thing.

HFD Nice idea about the oxygen, but - well I can\'t point to any research, but I can say with reasonable conviction that its the source of fuel which is the major concern. If its nice high calorific stuff like 100LL then the plane will burn quite nicely even if it were stationary on the ground. "Starving" the fire of oxygen by flying slowly is hardly going to be an option.

Head earthwards at a high rate of knots is going to be your best bet for two reasons.

1) It WILL fan the fire, but this will mean the fuel will be consumed more quickly, and if you have isolated the source you can expect the fire to extinguish faster.

2) If you are making turns AWAY from the fire, then you will be using the Relative airflow to direct the flames away from the source of fuel and this may well succeed in "blowing it out". Even if it doesn\'t, it will be keeping most of the flame front outside of the cowling rather than within.

[Big Pistons Forever]

A few items from my POV

1) Engine fires in small ac are rare and usually go out as soon as the engine is shut down. This was the case in the two I have personal knowledge of ( C421 and Islander).

2) I have been instructing full and part time for 16 years. My club has a policy of annual recurrent training. I have NEVER had a PPL conduct a satisfactory forced approach on the first try during a annual check ride. Many in my opinion were so bad they stood a good chance of killing themselves. Therefore I strongly believe PPL's should practice this manoever regularly, it may save their life.

3) When instructing PFL's I used to initiate the engine failure by pulling the mixture to ICO. One day in a c 152 , after 6 full PFL,s we returned to our home airport, landed and pulled into our parking spot. The student pulled the mixture out only about 3 feet of cable came out as the engine died So I now initiate PFL's by pulling back the throttle...

[Centaurus]

Big Pistons etc. You are a brave man, hombre, pulling mixture controls to cause real engine failures in any aircraft - single or twin. It reflects on the poor initial training that you were unfortunate enough to receive. Worse still, it shows poor airmanship. Thank goodness for the sake of your future students that you have seen the light. Full marks for owning up.