Aerobatical instruction
Guest
Posts: n/a
Aerobatical instruction
To all aerobatic instructors, from a newbie (to instructing aeros, ben flying them for about six months active, ten years thinking about them!)
I want to prepare myself for the inevitable day when one of my students does *WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON* to me.
What do you do? Any thoughts appreciated.
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
I want to prepare myself for the inevitable day when one of my students does *WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON* to me.
What do you do? Any thoughts appreciated.
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Stay calm.
When I teach aeros the first thing taught is unusual attitude recovery - developing from basic stalls to inverted / nose high / nose low / rotating / stalled & rotating etc.
Part of this is includes the student being taught to centralise & brace the controls if control is lost until the flight condition is recognised.
If it goes awry it will be either some form of dive, or some form of spin ie upright or inverted.
As long as there is time try to get the student to recognise the situation.
They should then be able to recover.
Otherwise tell the student the flight condition & command them to recover, or
Take over & tell them what the situation is while recovering. (if the situation warrants it)
Have fun!
[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 13 September 2000).]
When I teach aeros the first thing taught is unusual attitude recovery - developing from basic stalls to inverted / nose high / nose low / rotating / stalled & rotating etc.
Part of this is includes the student being taught to centralise & brace the controls if control is lost until the flight condition is recognised.
If it goes awry it will be either some form of dive, or some form of spin ie upright or inverted.
As long as there is time try to get the student to recognise the situation.
They should then be able to recover.
Otherwise tell the student the flight condition & command them to recover, or
Take over & tell them what the situation is while recovering. (if the situation warrants it)
Have fun!
[This message has been edited by Tinstaafl (edited 13 September 2000).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks all
Now, what is the best way to go about teaching a Sportsman sequence for Competitions? Dual or observed solo or some combo?
All hints, tips and tricks appreciated.
Like the UA training idea!
Safe flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Now, what is the best way to go about teaching a Sportsman sequence for Competitions? Dual or observed solo or some combo?
All hints, tips and tricks appreciated.
Like the UA training idea!
Safe flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Guest
Posts: n/a
In the last war,that is 39/45 the Germans told their pilots if they lost control in cloud to put the a/c into an intentional spin then recover from the known condition when in visual contact with tera firma, oops 500ft. cloudbase FW190 needs 1500ft. to recover from spin is this relevant, no but true. Unusual atts. a must lots and lots of them and lots of spinning especially with full power on. After all most aeros require a generous power setting.Spinning or at least the entry with no power on if aero training is not giving the student the best insight as to what might go wrong.Lots of altitude, if all else fails lock controls firmly, to prevent structional damage, till flight condition recognised then recover. OR GET OUT IF YOU HAVE SOME SILK.!Oh yes beware of the instructor who wants to show you his sequence you will feel ill and he will have fun and you are paying1
Guest
Posts: n/a
ah, thanks Fallen Eagle, but I knew most of that (except the self-confessed irrelevant bit)
and I'm the instructor, trying to teach sequences to our club members who want to enter competitions
and and I don't have to "beware" because I'm not paying unless I'm in the left seat, which I will do when the competitions are a bit closer, and then I don't mind seeing how the sequence goes if they can manage their energy better than me
and you spell structural like that not like structional
and I like your idea of full power spinning practice/training, part of my next hands-on flight is going to be triple snap rolls (I think), and avalanches, and inverted stalls. That should see the C152 do a bit of work.
And parachutes are for unconfident people who aren't sure what their aeroplane's going to do. I know what to do when I'm flying - I asked for the most effective way to recover when my student cocks up. Do you go through the student or take control?
Safe flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
and I'm the instructor, trying to teach sequences to our club members who want to enter competitions
and and I don't have to "beware" because I'm not paying unless I'm in the left seat, which I will do when the competitions are a bit closer, and then I don't mind seeing how the sequence goes if they can manage their energy better than me
and you spell structural like that not like structional
and I like your idea of full power spinning practice/training, part of my next hands-on flight is going to be triple snap rolls (I think), and avalanches, and inverted stalls. That should see the C152 do a bit of work.
And parachutes are for unconfident people who aren't sure what their aeroplane's going to do. I know what to do when I'm flying - I asked for the most effective way to recover when my student cocks up. Do you go through the student or take control?
Safe flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well C6, with a response like that you're not likely to get much more help! EAGLE (and the others) made some very good points, the last one might be particularly relevant - remember that you are there to teach/protect rather than to demonstrate your superior abilities!
The "how to take over" question should really have been answered by your instructing experience to date and also during your aero-instructor course. If you always take over too soon the stude doesn't learn, if you wait too long you might frighten the stude or bend something. Every situation is different but if your stude should be capable of sorting the problem (you've taught them) and you aren't approaching any limits (yours, the aircraft's or altitude) then leave them to it.
In the UK we have Beginners and Standard (rather than Sportsman) these are invariably taught dual. The higher levels are taught by mixtures of dual and observed.
As for Avalanches, etc: I don't teach in Aerobats but if you can flick (snap) and loop I don't see why you can't do an Avalanche (or multiple separated flicks - or stall inverted)?
Finally, I don't wish to insult your abilities, but if you can't see the benefit of a parachute when teaching aeros you might have more to learn than you realise! I (and many others) wear parachutes and bonedomes whenever possible - certainly for spinning and the more interesting manoeuvres.
Fly safely and give good value!
The "how to take over" question should really have been answered by your instructing experience to date and also during your aero-instructor course. If you always take over too soon the stude doesn't learn, if you wait too long you might frighten the stude or bend something. Every situation is different but if your stude should be capable of sorting the problem (you've taught them) and you aren't approaching any limits (yours, the aircraft's or altitude) then leave them to it.
In the UK we have Beginners and Standard (rather than Sportsman) these are invariably taught dual. The higher levels are taught by mixtures of dual and observed.
As for Avalanches, etc: I don't teach in Aerobats but if you can flick (snap) and loop I don't see why you can't do an Avalanche (or multiple separated flicks - or stall inverted)?
Finally, I don't wish to insult your abilities, but if you can't see the benefit of a parachute when teaching aeros you might have more to learn than you realise! I (and many others) wear parachutes and bonedomes whenever possible - certainly for spinning and the more interesting manoeuvres.
Fly safely and give good value!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks Hugh Flung Dung I thought it was me!and that my 30 years of accident free flying and not one student lost or dammaged had made me over confident. soRRy abot spelliNR i AM ONLY a suffolk boy and we all have straw sticking out of are ears or somewhere! bye bye
Guest
Posts: n/a
OOPS!!
Three lessons learnt
1) reread posts before sending
2) don't forget smilies ;o (re: parachutes)
3) don't post when angry at someone else (completely unrelated too)
Thanks (and sorry) Hugh and fallen eagle, your posts make a lot of sense despite what I say and I probably do have more to learn than I realise, that's why I'm here (to find out what I don't know). Keep it coming.
Although, I still don't mind people showing me what the aeroplane can do (showing off) as long as they tell me beforehand what's going to happen. Surely when I demonstrate something and the student knows what's going to happen, and they follow me through, SOMETHING must be transferred?
Thanks for the ideas by the way
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Three lessons learnt
1) reread posts before sending
2) don't forget smilies ;o (re: parachutes)
3) don't post when angry at someone else (completely unrelated too)
Thanks (and sorry) Hugh and fallen eagle, your posts make a lot of sense despite what I say and I probably do have more to learn than I realise, that's why I'm here (to find out what I don't know). Keep it coming.
Although, I still don't mind people showing me what the aeroplane can do (showing off) as long as they tell me beforehand what's going to happen. Surely when I demonstrate something and the student knows what's going to happen, and they follow me through, SOMETHING must be transferred?
Thanks for the ideas by the way
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Guest
Posts: n/a
C 6 Apology accepted we all get a bit touchy prob cos we get to the computer late at night after a hard day.There is all the info on this site you wish to harness probably a zillion flying hours on every aircraft ever built. Good luck with your aero instruction.Hope you get to fly something a bit more inspiring than a 150/2 though I would never critisise them they do a great job. bye bye. 
Guest
Posts: n/a
Nothing quite like warm fuzzies. Makes me wish the Muppet Show was still on!
As for inspiring aircraft, once I get enough tailwheel experience on our Super Cub I hope to progress to the Tiger Moth. I've already flown it dual, but need more tailwheel time for insurance purposes to fly it PIC on aero adventures etc. Now that's a real aeroplane.
Safe and happy flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
As for inspiring aircraft, once I get enough tailwheel experience on our Super Cub I hope to progress to the Tiger Moth. I've already flown it dual, but need more tailwheel time for insurance purposes to fly it PIC on aero adventures etc. Now that's a real aeroplane.
Safe and happy flying
------------------
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
