Civilian Instructors in the ATC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Barnsley
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Civilian Instructors in the ATC
Can anyone give me the definitive answer regarding whether the hours flown on the Vigilant can be used towards:
a) the annual flying requirement for your PPL certificate of experience and
b) Total hours required for the issue of a JAA CPL
I have seen elsewhere, comment that the hours cannot count towards (a) above, and only 30hrs max can count towards a CPL.
I have also been told that the ATC vigilant is heavier than its 'civilian' counterpart , the Grob 109 and that therefore the hours do count!
most confusing......anyone?
a) the annual flying requirement for your PPL certificate of experience and
b) Total hours required for the issue of a JAA CPL
I have seen elsewhere, comment that the hours cannot count towards (a) above, and only 30hrs max can count towards a CPL.
I have also been told that the ATC vigilant is heavier than its 'civilian' counterpart , the Grob 109 and that therefore the hours do count!
most confusing......anyone?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi,
As I understand it, the key point here is that the Vigilant is a TMG by CAA standards (no argument everybody, it is! Would be nice to think it is a SEP, but have checked thoroughly with FCL and they are quite clear!)
As such, you can use the hours towards your PPL revalidation if, and only if, you have a TMG rating on your PPL. CAA will put a TMG rating on an existing licence if you can show you have 75hrs or more P1 on the Vigilant, and you stump up the £60 odd fee. When you have TMG and SEP on your licence you can revalidate both by satisfying the requirements in either class rating.
As for CPL, I understand that only 30hrs P1 can count from Vigilant flying, as again because it is a TMG. If anyone can prove otherwise I have a vested interest in finding out!
Hope this is some use and Linton is doing OK!
As I understand it, the key point here is that the Vigilant is a TMG by CAA standards (no argument everybody, it is! Would be nice to think it is a SEP, but have checked thoroughly with FCL and they are quite clear!)
As such, you can use the hours towards your PPL revalidation if, and only if, you have a TMG rating on your PPL. CAA will put a TMG rating on an existing licence if you can show you have 75hrs or more P1 on the Vigilant, and you stump up the £60 odd fee. When you have TMG and SEP on your licence you can revalidate both by satisfying the requirements in either class rating.
As for CPL, I understand that only 30hrs P1 can count from Vigilant flying, as again because it is a TMG. If anyone can prove otherwise I have a vested interest in finding out!
Hope this is some use and Linton is doing OK!
blagger - I reckon that you're correct in every detail.
The Vigilant T Mk 1 is indeed classed as a TMG, not as a SEP aircraft. Simon White of the CAA (a very helpful chap indeed) recently confirmed this.
The Vigilant T Mk 1 is indeed classed as a TMG, not as a SEP aircraft. Simon White of the CAA (a very helpful chap indeed) recently confirmed this.
'Tis indeed the case though it didn't used to be.
I would be tempted to just log my G109 type time as SEP and carry on regardless for decades. I doubt anyone will ever notice nor care when it comes to private Group A or club flying.
Given the huge numbers of liberties regularly taken by others in the system this would be a minor misunderstanding.
Cheers
WWW
I would be tempted to just log my G109 type time as SEP and carry on regardless for decades. I doubt anyone will ever notice nor care when it comes to private Group A or club flying.
Given the huge numbers of liberties regularly taken by others in the system this would be a minor misunderstanding.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Barnsley, Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you gentlemen
(this is 642vgs - computer screw up forcing name change!)
What has been said was more or less what I expected. However, my licence is a CAA licence and includes self launched motor gliders. I understand the difference between self launched and touring but does this make a difference?
(this is 642vgs - computer screw up forcing name change!)
What has been said was more or less what I expected. However, my licence is a CAA licence and includes self launched motor gliders. I understand the difference between self launched and touring but does this make a difference?
Prince of Pastry
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Somewhere in the oggin
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a relevant thread in the 'private flying' forum, although I'm not clever enough to post a link. (Search for 'Vigilant - it's there somewhere).
The general drift of it is that because the 'Vigilant T Mk 1' does not have a direct civilian equivalent (i.e. with a 908kg MTOM), it cannot technically be logged in a civvy log book, however, the closest recognised equivalent is the G109B (which is definitely classified as a TMG). The CAA will allow you to log the hours in a civvy log book, but only on the understanding that you are essentially flying a G109B.
As per the earlier posting, you may apply for a TMG rating with 75 hrs P1 on Vigi, but ONLY if you already have SLMG on your license. I presume that means that you will still need to apply for a TMG rating before using it to revalidate your PPL.
With regard to CPL issue, you may use up to 30 hrs on Vig towards the 200 hrs total required for CPL issue, but this does not count towards the 100 hrs P1 requirement. I have that particular rule in writing to me personally.
Anyway, I don't have SLMG on my license, so, with over 100 hrs P1 on Vigilant, I'm still not allowed to fly one.
(Not that it matters any more since I've just been converted to Vikings. 
)
The general drift of it is that because the 'Vigilant T Mk 1' does not have a direct civilian equivalent (i.e. with a 908kg MTOM), it cannot technically be logged in a civvy log book, however, the closest recognised equivalent is the G109B (which is definitely classified as a TMG). The CAA will allow you to log the hours in a civvy log book, but only on the understanding that you are essentially flying a G109B.
As per the earlier posting, you may apply for a TMG rating with 75 hrs P1 on Vigi, but ONLY if you already have SLMG on your license. I presume that means that you will still need to apply for a TMG rating before using it to revalidate your PPL.
With regard to CPL issue, you may use up to 30 hrs on Vig towards the 200 hrs total required for CPL issue, but this does not count towards the 100 hrs P1 requirement. I have that particular rule in writing to me personally.
Anyway, I don't have SLMG on my license, so, with over 100 hrs P1 on Vigilant, I'm still not allowed to fly one.
(Not that it matters any more since I've just been converted to Vikings. )
