Test,Evaluation and Trials topic e.g. RAE,DERA and QinetiQ
 

ETPS

-A&AEE Boscombe down.

-NGTE

-Royal Aerospace Establishment.

-DRA.

-DERA.

-QinetiQ/[dstl].

Of course any questions about the above It would be nice to post here as well.
Hope it's a fun topic for all!:ok:

Of course A&AEE DRA DERA and QinetiQ are all one and the same place and having started working for my beloved A&AEE i have worked for them all through default :ugh:

T&E eh, lets add some more acronyms to the alphabet soup with AFEE, AATDC, JATE, JADTEU AWC, ATEC and even though it was mostly naval stuff there was some flight testing with the DMWD.

Personally, I would class them as Organisations, although probably stretching the point to consider the latter 3 as 'organised'!

A&AEE was, of course, located at Boscombe Down; however the DRA & DERA, during their existence, inhabited many sites around the UK. QQ still does, albeit rather less these days.

lm

Maybe it would be better if I placed them in chronological order:hmm: as A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA. Then in 2001 became QinetiQ (privatised).Same for the RAE went through DRA , DERA and the QinetiQ. :cool:

That's not precisely accurate. A&AEE never merged into or became part of DRA. :8

A&AEE (Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment)

became (briefly)

A&AEE (Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment)

became (briefly)

DGT&E (Directorate General Test & Evaluation)

became

DTEO (Defence Test & Evaluation Organisation)

became

DERA (Defence Evaluation & Research Agency) - joining DRA etc

became

QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

will become... :ooh:

RAE again?

P

Well I wish the RAE would be back but some how with cut backs I doubt it very much.
Dont understand what you mean? You mean that DSTL is going to come under QinetiQ??? or the other way around as DSTL is gov owned:oh:
https://www.dstl.gov.uk/

To re-build the RAE you would need Scientists, Engineers and Leaders. QQ could offer Nest-Featherers, Project Managers, Accountants and possibly just a few of those who formerly worked at the RAE. Unfortunately, working within QQ has beaten the stuffing out of those former RAE folk.

Destruction of the RAE, A&AEE and several other specialist military organisations in the proven false hope of saving money has come home to roost, we cannot get anything right and we have precious little of the essential test facilities remaining.

All of this stupidity occurred in the early 1990s, readers of other topics concerning airworthiness will probably recognise that period as the time military airworthiness requirements were consigned to the past.

Enough to make you weep!

lm

It was remarked by my colleagues, having driven through the main gate to be greeted by another logo (again), a career in signwriting could be a lucrative option...

I mean that when DERA ceased to exist in 2001, it split into two: QinetiQ and DSTL. Sorry: [dstl] :8

Still we will have to hope DSTL stays gov owned as if that became privatised there would not be much left.:sad:

You are so right lightningmate. I am ex A&AEE forced into QQ this as they say is not what I joined up for :(

Out of interest what ranges did RAE/A&AEE etc use I know aberporth , shoeburyness and west freugh but was there any other ones???? I know P&EE used a lot but did the RAE and A&AEE use them??

RAE operated the air range at Larkhill on Salisbury Plain, Aberporth is Cardigan Bay, West Freugh was Luce Bay; Shoeburyness was not operated by RAE although it was under the umbrella of MOD(PE) like RAE & A&AEE.
One acronym was you forgot was: RPE (Rocket Propulsion Establishment) Westcott, which became part of Royal Ordnance by '92; don't know what it's called now.
Another was RRE (Royal Radar Establishment) Pershore the flying side of which was absorbed into RAE Bedford in about '75.
And don't forget RAE is actually 2 acronyms; Royal Aircraft Establishment became Royal Aerospace Establishment before it became DRA(Aerospace).

... and was Royal Aircraft Factory until it was changed to deconflict with the newly formed Royal Air Force in 1918.

There was also NGTE, subsumed into RAE in the early 1980s I think.

P

Yes it was with the Royal Aerospace Establishment;)

Yes should of remembered Westcott since I have been there:O but I'm sure they moved a lot of the resources up to spadeadam (don't count me on that) for blue streak missile/rocket.And I think some of the Royal Ordnance comes under BAE.

Sites
 

So far I know of the locations of these sites within the RAE/A&AEE
-Farnbrough
-Bedford Airbase/tunnels
-Malvern
-Pershore (Before it moved to bedford)
-Defford
-West Freugh
-Westcott
-Spadeadam
-Llanbedr
-Aberporth

-Boscombe down

Im I right I thinking these are correct and also are there any more???

Larkhill as mentioned; there was also an offshoot of RAE at Cobham,

Believe it or not in the distant past there was an out station of Boscombe Down in Libya

Cobham????? I know that not to far away from there is a EQD which was run by the Ministry of Avation before it came MOD Aquila. Is this the same place as I'm sure there must of been a detachment there :confused:

billynospares I also seem to remember that there were trials in Singapore aswell.:8

EDIT: Mod Aquila is different place to what I previous expected it was.

The Cobham one was off Fairmile; I saw a map of Cobham once with 'RAE' in small letters at the north east end of this road. (Something to do with 'Cobham Armour'?). I'm also remembering a MOD(PE) place at West Byfleet but I'm not sure if this was RAE; could have been something to do with MVEE (Military Vehicles Evaluation Establishment) at Longcross.

That would be Idris.
I've also taken part in A&AEE trials in Karup in Denmark, Yuma and El Centro in Arizona and Brunei. Never having been on Rotary icing work I've missed out on the long trips to Canada and Norway. As for ranges in the UK I've also used Studland Bay and Porthkerris on the Lizard.

NGTE Pyestock became RAE Pyestock.

Malvern wasn't either RAE or A&AEE that I recall. I think it was RSRE - Royal Signals and Radar Establishment?

P

Also there were trials in Ottawa with the icing rig there.I also seem to remember as well trials over Greenland with XS235 comet.

MVEE is basically next(attached) to EQD and Im sure RAE members would of been there calibrating or testing aeronautical equipment to distrcution.
Also back to Cobham it might of been Wisely airfeild (after a little searching) as according to the net it was used for testing vickers aircraft and did have VOR and DME .

There have been trials all over the world from Boscombe over the years and luckily I have been involved in quite a few. We used to regularly take the Comet to Greenland on the Aries polar trials flights. Thule airbase and the Top of the World club for cold beers and hot wings

It must of taken a few hours :p , How did they transport the equipment across e.g. Rotary trails.I persume C-130 or am I completely wrong????

Wisley was a contractors airfield mostly used for production flight testing of civil aircraft (although the Valiant was tested there) after final assembly and first flight from nearby Brooklands and was nothing to do with RAE.
The VOR/DME was a later addition to provide a 4th stack for Heathrow although I dare say Vickers had their own 'private' letdown using it although it wasn't needed as they had a fantastically powerful radar.

It was a few happy hours. The comet was pretty quick and comfortable though. Most rotary trials abroad the equipment goes out by ship. The herc trials carry their own kit

The comet is now at Bruntingthorpe airfield.I think they taxi it's around the airfield (or did) during there open day , it's such a long runway I think they can afford to do that.:)

I persume with the comet you were doing radar or nav trails with it could be wrong of course.;)

Chevvron well it was a wild guess, just assumed as the establishments used Vickers aircraft quite often.

The Farnborough Comet XV814 was used for nav trials. I did one trip on it lasting 4.5 hours routing Farnborough - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Ullapool - Alconbury - Farnborough. They were assessing several different types of nav systems including an Inertial Navigation System (INS) using laser gyrosopes.

Note: Why the hell does the system keep converting 'a' to '@' whenever I type 'laser'?

RAE,RAE, DRA,DERA,
 

I started at RAE Bedford Royal Aircraft Establishment Bedford, fantastic 2 sites Airfield and tunnels. The Sign writter was always at the main gate Changing the Logo etc, Royal Aircraft Establishment was the best, I wonder how much all those changes cost the organisation um! Tax payer.:confused:

Trials support from boscombe was Hastings, which were replaced by the Brittania until sold in the early eighties. Comet XS235 was Nav and radio division trials aircraft. i recall the aerial fit for what was i think the first aircraft in europe at the time with sat comms . The nav kit onboard was to such an accuracy that equipment for new types was installes alongside and flown for accuracy calibration. i recall the kit for tornado being fitted and flown onboard in late seventies. had a few nice trips on it around uk.

A&AEE also used their Beverley for Trials support. I have a photo of one of Boscombe's, Harvards, with its outer wings off and inside the Bev on its way to Idris to be used as the photo chase aircraft. A role that the remaining Harvard has to the present day!

Did you use the USAF base at Alconbury?? wasn't just for the Aquarius Club :hmm:

Earlonics they often change the names in government making things sound better when they don't at all. :(

I saw the Harvard at 2011 RIAT with its lovely QQ logo on :ugh:

I have a few photos from over the years. No idea how to put them on here though

It would be great to see some pictures I have some to scan in from various books. I think you press the button to the left of the quote button it has a picture of a mountain and sun.Also I think you will need to upload them to photobucket so you can get a a URL.PM me might be better because I don't know how strict on here they are about going Off-topic.

Re 35; no we didn't land at Alconbury (or Ullapool!) that was the route we flew.

Oops misunderstood your last post:) Does anyone know much about any of the calibration & pressure trails at Farnborough.

Do you mean Met Research Flight? They were only a lodger unit ie not part of the RAE Experimental Flying Department due to Farnborough being the closest MOD airfield to the Central Forecasting Office at Bracknell (now moved to Exeter), and although the aircrew 'mixed' they were regular Lyneham crews rather than specialist aircrew who had been through ETPS or similar.
Another 'lodger' was IAM (Institute of Aviation Medicine) Flight which normally had two pilots, both qualified as doctors and both qualified jet instructors. A third was added shortly before they moved to Boscombe; he was a qualified test pilot not a doctor and before he was allocated to IAM Flight he was an EFD pilot on fast jet types with whom I had the pleasure of a Hunter flight one day.