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Nope not the MET flight I think there C-130 (snoopy) is now at Marshalls of Cambridge now.I have a picture showing a Meteor 'undergoing further calibration at Farnborough' it's from the Metoer book I have got.The Metoer is positioned on what I can see to be a trolley and the Metoer is rolled over onto it so it's undercarriage is facing upwards.There is also a missile on a cable system which looks almost like it's having RVDM trails.I will try and scan it in with caption.
edit: Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible. |
Meteor U16s were target drones used at RAE Lanbedr for ops in the Cardigan Bay ranges, so I dare say they were calibrating the radio control system. Sea Vixens were used later (mid 70s) and they were modified at Farnborough on contract to Flight Refuelling Ltd. so presumably the Meteors were too. Both types retained a cockpit for a human pilot. The FR test pilot used to come up from Tarrant Rushton to test fly the Vixens after they were modded, and on one occasion, was a bit enthusiastic getting into the cockpit and managed to bang his head on the metal hoop around the windscreen all but knocking himself out.
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Yep they might of been , however the Metoer itself wasn't in the targeting colour scheme (yellow/red) but as you say they probaley calibrating for targeting use.The sea vixen is a smart aircraft unlucky for that pilot who knocked himself out.Changing the conversation again does anyone know what they used Aberporth airfeild as during RAE use I know they used the campus as a site to host RAE members ect.Of course Llanbedr was used for the Jindivik.I will try and scan the pictures in as they are interesting.
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There is a radar unit at Aberporth (originally 'Western Radar') which is used to track aircraft operating in the Cardigan Bay range and to provide a service for aircraft wishing to transit the danger area. The airfield was used by the RAE Transport Flight Devons to transport boffins and other personnel, the route was Farnborough - Aberporth - Llanbedr - West Freugh and return two or three days a week.
Aberporth also saw the occasional civil visitor, and AEF Chipmunks used it frequently for Air Cadet flying. On at least one occasion, a Hunter from Valley did a touch and go there, the pilot being amazed how short the runway is (about 900m or 3,000ft). A couple of the staff from Farnborough ATC used to do Aberporth Tower in rotation when the permanent guy took leave. |
Interesting , there was I think a small radar station at the top of Cardigan bay which RAE members used to dread going to as It was very isolated and cold.Also there was a report (or found) that the target barges washed up on the beach.
Now I think Aberporth airfield is used for UAVS.It is now know as west Wales airport.Aberporth Airfield ;) |
For those that are on a social networking site (beginning with 'f'), try searching within for Llanbedr Airfield Estates LLP. They have uploaded many photos, albeit of a recent supercar event they held there recently, also adding many archive photos of Meteor, Jindivik, Sea Vixen et al.
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The small radar unit 'at the top of Cardigan Bay' was presumably Llanbedr, which would launch a drone (Firefly/Meteor/Sea Vixen/Jindivik) then pass the ident to Aberporth Radar.
This airfield was considerably larger than Aberporth and I think the main runway was re-inforced as Jindiviks used to land on a skid, the undercarriage being jettisoned on takeoff. Llanbedr also had a Precision Approach Radar and I believe every drone landing was 'talked down' using this. I've often wondered if the occupants of the caravan site just south east of Llanbedr were aware of these unmanned aircraft activities; a set of Jindivik wheels would probably do quite a bit of damage to a caravan. |
It would do a lot of damage to a house never mind a caravan.:) The radar station (sorry for long link) Qinetiq radar site on the Llyn penninsular , was at the north of the bay the link explains it in more detail.
Also I think Concorde may of even landed on the runway at Llanbedr Some good pictures here: Flickriver: Most interesting photos from Jindivik pool |
#41 Here are those pictures might be on interest. Sorry about poor quality. From this book: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...YgA32QdjOb8sog
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M1.png Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M2.png http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j460/AJT4/M3.png |
The T7 pic shows this was fitted with the extended nose cone of the U16s which if I remember correctly, were originally F8s. Just a surmise; maybe they modded it with U16 aerials to familiarise new pilots with the handling characteristics. Note the middle picture shows a Rushton towed target stowed overwing on the Meteor.
Not sure if the T7 in the third picture is the Llanbedr one or the Farnborough one; the Farnborough one crashed in '75. I don't think it's WA662. |
Thanks again Chevvron , te 2nd picture down is actually the Marshall's of Cambridge trail meteor but in the picture it is at Farnborough.And I have a feeling that it is WA662 as it as a smallish randome at the rear which is present on other pictures of WA662.
Back to pressure trails I'm still very curious about it as the most famous one must be comet.However I'm more so interested in later tests this website has some decent pictures but its description is very scientific and not to digestible.THE EXPERIMENTAL APPROACH TO AIRCRAFT STRUCTURAL RESEARCH, THE FIFTEENTH WRIGHT BROTHERS LECTURE so if there is any info anyone knows about pressure trails.Also included this fantastic cross-section from the Eagle which I scanned in of course don't use the image anywhere else. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...rightEagle.pnghttp://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=2DT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=eagle+annual%3B&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bp cl=35466521&biw=1920&bih=977&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=13019438720592363318&sa=X&ei=jreKULBf65DRBb28gMAK&ved= 0CCcQ8wIwAA |
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashleyaircraftfan A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA. That's not precisely accurate. A&AEE never merged into or became part of DRA. A&AEE (Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment) became (briefly) A&AEE (Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment) became (briefly) DGT&E (Directorate General Test & Evaluation) became DTEO (Defence Test & Evaluation Organisation) became DERA (Defence Evaluation & Research Agency) - joining DRA etc became QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL) will become... |
You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error! |
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...ESTRUCTURE.png
Am I right in thinking that the building in the background was R.A.E structures?? and does anyone on here no much about it?;) |
The area you're looking at is where Qinetiq's Cody Site now stands.
Structures was originally meant for long term fatigue testing of a Concorde; there was one inside that tall square building. It was subjected to continual reversals of temperature via first being heated, then having chilled water circulated round it. When this programme finally finished, the building was allocated as the National Space Centre but as far as I know was never used as such. It was demolished to make way for Cody Site in the late '90s/early noughties. |
Thanks again I'm sure there is a picture in this thread http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...d-history.html of Concorde inside the building.And I persume the buildings are to do with Concorde it the facility as well.
And also researched more about Chobham. Well as said in #21+ Longcross test track (military vehicles and engineering establishment Chertsey) I came across a photo of Varsity T1 (WL679) undergoing FLIR trails at MVEE |
To re-build the RAE you would need Scientists, Engineers and Leaders. QQ could offer Nest-Featherers, Project Managers, Accountants and possibly just a few of those who formerly worked at the RAE. Unfortunately, working within QQ has beaten the stuffing out of those former RAE folk. The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues. Nonetheless, something had to be done to cull the methodology of the airworthiness chain; except that all we have subsequently done is increase "process"; which has, more or less, gone full circle i.e. the airworthiness chain has, once again, become complex and convoluted. Are we any safer? No. But we sure have built the "Mother of all Audit Trails" that will "nail" anyone who manages to crawl through the legislation minefield. Haddon-Cave wanted to simplify "process"... QinetiQ has totally missed the point! :ugh: |
Do you mean Met Research Flight? They were only a lodger unit ie not part of the RAE Experimental Flying Department due to Farnborough being the closest MOD airfield to the Central Forecasting Office at Bracknell (now moved to Exeter), and although the aircrew 'mixed' they were regular Lyneham crews rather than specialist aircrew who had been through ETPS or similar. Another 'lodger' was IAM (Institute of Aviation Medicine) Flight which normally had two pilots, both qualified as doctors and both qualified jet instructors. A third was added shortly before they moved to Boscombe; he was a qualified test pilot not a doctor and before he was allocated to IAM Flight he was an EFD pilot on fast jet types with whom I had the pleasure of a Hunter flight one day Aerodynamics flight however, were RAE and did do quite a lot towards basic understanding of aircraft aerodynamics, as well as stability and control. P |
Originally Posted by FTE Pruner
You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!
Originally Posted by TheChitterneFlyer
The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues.
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i.e. highlighted that a contract for £7,500/year cannot enable oversight. |
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/...54_7511_n1.jpg
my beautiful old lady at Thule airbase Greenland |
Great picture! I presume it's 814 as you mentioned that previously.
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Er, XS235 for sure!
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Ummm....Yes as I've noticed underneath the comet has a flatter pod underneath than the 3 comets used by RAE. XS235 is now at bruningthorpe also.
We forgot about Cobbett hill radio station! I also presume that A&AEE used larkhill range??? |
XS235 Canopus A&AEE only Comet
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Didn't A&AEE also have a Phantom :)
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Here's a slightly different view of Canopus...
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...lyer/Comet.jpg |
Easy to distinguish '814; it had a 'Nimrod' style dorsal fillet at the base of the fin.
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And 814 was a different colour .
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http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...JT4/comet3.png
Comet 144 when BLEU had it was still in BOAC livery. 814 later adopted the raspberry ripple scheme but a good pic of all 3 of RAE comets http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...CometXV814.jpg http://http://i1206.photobucket.com/...CometXV814.jpg |
'814 lost that belly pack later. The other two Comets were both Bedford based, but in 1974, Farnborough had 3 Comets for a short time; I remember because they all arrived one after the other when the runway was reopened after re-surfacing in July/August of that year. One of them, like 814, was ex DanAir.
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There were also WE177 high explosive safety trials done at the impact wall on AWRE Orfordness, and we also used the rocket track at RAE Pendine Sands for small diameter high speed parachute trials.
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Wasn't Pendine Sands also P&EE as well? And does anyone remember any info on the site at West Drayton ?
And there was a small RAE naval contingent at Chobham (longcross) working on naval engineering should think testing engines in conjunction with Pyestock. |
West Drayton & Cobham
I started at RAE Farnborough in 1981, and moved over to Pyestock in 1983 at the start of the third year of my apprenticeship, Pyestock having just become RAE rather than NGTE.
One of the departments in which I did a three month stint was Chemical and Petroleum Testing. This would involve running engines on any fluid used by the MOD (and I mean any) to determine its flammability and lubricating properties. This department is the one which had previously been at Cobham, (Petroleum Chemistry and Technology Division, Royal Aircraft Establishment, Cobham, Surrey (formerly the Admiralty Oil Laboratory). Another department was known as 'Diesels', This, I believe is the one which moved from West Drayton, where it had been the Admiralty Engineering Laboratory. We ran endurance testing on Paxman Valenta or 'SSK' diesel engines for submarine generating sets, and the regular stripping down of these 2000 hp,16 cylinder, 210 litre engines was a real sod. I remember trying to push the piston and conrod out with some crummy double pivoted tool which didn't want to stay straight. Other work in this department included testing outboard motors for the Royal Marines 'rigid raider' boats and testing a Ford 1.6 diesel engine driven fire pump (that was great fun, and needless to say, got everyone very wet). After Pyestock I moved back to Farnbough as a trainee UAV pilot (we called then UMAs (UnManned Aircraft) at the time. I had several trips to Pendine Sands to operate them, although they had been flown at Greenham Common, Larkhill and Suffield in Alberta before I joined that Dept. A promotion led to a change of Dept and working on night vision goggles and Forward looking Infra Red (FLIR). We did trials in Cyprus ("Mechta, we're doing going to do a trial in Cyprus, how long do you want to go for?" "Cyprus? Permanently, please...") Later trials took us up to West Freugh ('Wet Through') where we tested the TIALD pod on the Buccaneer in preparation for the first Gulf War. Working at West Freugh involved regular trips in the Navaho Chieftain ferry aircraft, with stops at Boscombe Down, Aberporth, Llanbedr and Warton. The latter had the EAP and a Lightning chase plane on the apron at the time. On one trip into Llanbedr, we had to loiter whilst a Jindivik was recovered, giving us a grandstand view. I baled out of Farnborough before it became DERA, and from my contact with friends who stayed on, I did the right thing, as many got very depressed watching the decline of the place whilst waiting for redundancy. I did get a brief spell back working for QinetiQ on the Zephyr solar powered UAV, which was very interesting, working with a very enthusiastic and dedicated team. With regard to names, many of the older people with whom I worked, had worked with people who would only refer to it as 'The Balloon Factory'. |
I started at RAE Farnborough in 1981, and moved over to Pyestock in 1983 at the start of the third year of my apprenticeship, Pyestock having just become RAE rather than NGTE. One of the departments in which I did a three month stint was Chemical and Petroleum Testing. This would involve running engines on any fluid used by the MOD (and I mean any) to determine its flammability and lubricating properties. This department is the one which had previously been at Cobham, (Petroleum Chemistry and Technology Division, Royal Aircraft Establishment, Cobham, Surrey (formerly the Admiralty Oil Laboratory). Another department was known as 'Diesels', This, I believe is the one which moved from West Drayton, where it had been the Admiralty Engineering Laboratory. We ran endurance testing on Paxman Valenta or 'SSK' diesel engines for submarine generating sets, and the regular stripping down of these 2000 hp,16 cylinder, 210 litre engines was a real sod. I remember trying to push the piston and conrod out with some crummy double pivoted tool which didn't want to stay straight. Other work in this department included testing outboard motors for the Royal Marines 'rigid raider' boats and testing a Ford 1.6 diesel engine driven fire pump (that was great fun, and needless to say, got everyone very wet). After Pyestock I moved back to Farnbough as a trainee UAV pilot (we called then UMAs (UnManned Aircraft) at the time. I had several trips to Pendine Sands to operate them, although they had been flown at Greenham Common, Larkhill and Suffield in Alberta before I joined that Dept. A promotion led to a change of Dept and working on night vision goggles and Forward looking Infra Red (FLIR). We did trials in Cyprus ("Mechta, we're doing going to do a trial in Cyprus, how long do you want to go for?" "Cyprus? Permanently, please...") Later trials took us up to West Freugh ('Wet Through') where we tested the TIALD pod on the Buccaneer in preparation for the first Gulf War. Working at West Freugh involved regular trips in the Navaho Chieftain ferry aircraft, with stops at Boscombe Down, Aberporth, Llanbedr and Warton. The latter had the EAP and a Lightning chase plane on the apron at the time. On one trip into Llanbedr, we had to loiter whilst a Jindivik was recovered, giving us a grandstand view. I baled out of Farnborough before it became DERA, and from my contact with friends who stayed on, I did the right thing, as many got very depressed watching the decline of the place whilst waiting for redundancy. I did get a brief spell back working for QinetiQ on the Zephyr solar powered UAV, which was very interesting, working with a very enthusiastic and dedicated team. With regard to names, many of the older people with whom I worked, had worked with people who would only refer to it as 'The Balloon Factory'. When at Chobham did you work on anything else out of interest ? , shame its all going to be bulldozed over to make way for homes.:* |
He said Cobham not Chobham. Chobham was the MVEE site at Longcross which is now to be (possibly) re developed; Cobham is some 6 or so miles further east.
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yes sorry , cobham . Getting confused :ugh:
Would be intressting to know where abouts in 'Cobham' as the airfiled is Vickers but the establishment site is where? I seem to recall naval engineering was in 'Cobham' :) |
It looks as if the Cobham site evolved from Fairmile Marine during the war according to this:
Noel Macklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with the oil testing laboratory moving there in 1968 from this: Emerald | Industrial Lubrication and Tribology | AOL 74: Admiralty Oil Laboratory Comes of Age I never visited the Cobham site, but did drive past it on a few occasions. Looking back, I was very fortunate with the variety of departments in which I worked. The move to Pyestock was just the result of lucky timing, whilst the move to UAVs was the result of constant badgering of all and sundry by me. The move to night vision was down to a fellow model flier in the establishment club tipping me off about an as yet un-advertised position being created in a department which did lots of trials work. Even so, compared to Mechta Senior's variety of work, starting as a Flight Test Observer in Sunderlands to see how hard they could land (alight?) one (until they broke it!), flying in the Comet after they started crashing and before they knew why, a trip to Sudan in an Ashton to test air conditioning, and a spell on HMS Eagle doing noise testing, mine looked a bit tame. It was a great place to work, and for many of us it was as the song says, "you don't know what you've got till it's gone". |
When at Chobham did you work on anything else out of interest ? , shame its all going to be bulldozed over to make way for homes. . |
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