Test pilot schools in Russia
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Test pilot schools in Russia
Hello,
does any of you know whether it is possible to do a civilian test pilot training in Russia as a foreigner? I have heard about Zhukovsky though I am not sure if it is still operating and accepts people from outside / without military background.
Thanks!
does any of you know whether it is possible to do a civilian test pilot training in Russia as a foreigner? I have heard about Zhukovsky though I am not sure if it is still operating and accepts people from outside / without military background.
Thanks!
I've never come across a Russian TPS grad anywhere in the western flight test world - I'm sure there must be one or two somewhere, but the only people I've met were Russians on brief visits. That said, the Russians do have a long history of training people in professional skills from countries less hostile and alien to them, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are Russian trained TPs in India for example.
However, if you're self funding, I suspect that your best bet is either NTPS in Mojave, or a tailored university programme somewhere like Cranfield or Madrid.
G
However, if you're self funding, I suspect that your best bet is either NTPS in Mojave, or a tailored university programme somewhere like Cranfield or Madrid.
G
The Flight Research Institute would be the people to ask. Here is the English page of their website:
English | Ëåòíî-èññëåäîâàòåëüñêèé èíñòèòóò èìåíè Ì.Ì. Ãðîìîâà
This one briefly mentions training:
http://www.liicom.ru/eservic.phtml
and here is a page with some contact details:
www.eufar.net/experiment/operator/specop.php?num=51
Given what Ghengis and John Farley have written, it would be wise to ask prospective employers whether they recognize the training offered, before making any financial commitment.
English | Ëåòíî-èññëåäîâàòåëüñêèé èíñòèòóò èìåíè Ì.Ì. Ãðîìîâà
This one briefly mentions training:
http://www.liicom.ru/eservic.phtml
and here is a page with some contact details:
www.eufar.net/experiment/operator/specop.php?num=51
Given what Ghengis and John Farley have written, it would be wise to ask prospective employers whether they recognize the training offered, before making any financial commitment.
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Genghis,
No Russian trained TP in India. In every other TPS there have been Indian AF TPs - ETPS, Epner, Edwards. Not sure about USN TPS but there may be some Indian Navy TPs from there.
Of course now almost all Indian TPs are trained at the TPS in Bangalore.
I think that is because there is no official TPS in Russia or at least one that operated like the Western conception of a TPS.
No Russian trained TP in India. In every other TPS there have been Indian AF TPs - ETPS, Epner, Edwards. Not sure about USN TPS but there may be some Indian Navy TPs from there.
Of course now almost all Indian TPs are trained at the TPS in Bangalore.
I think that is because there is no official TPS in Russia or at least one that operated like the Western conception of a TPS.
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I have never attended any test pilot school, so forgive me for my lack of knowledge, but I was told Zhukovsky is the only one of it's kind in Russia, and yes it's military, although under the ministry of aviation. Apparently the USAF had student exchanges with them. Afaik it's a three year program, including a strong theoretical foundation.
Re "there is no official TPS in Russia or at least one that operated like the Western conception of a TPS." Out of pure curiosity, may I ask what the difference is?
Re "there is no official TPS in Russia or at least one that operated like the Western conception of a TPS." Out of pure curiosity, may I ask what the difference is?
Last edited by deptrai; 3rd Jul 2015 at 09:52.
I think that historically we in the west have demanded of our Test Pilots a great deal of independent thought, and have tended to allocate them significant responsibility in the way that they exercise that.
In the former Soviet Union, all military pilots, so presumably most test pilots, were not encouraged to think for themselves - detailed plans and instructions were generated on the ground and given to them not to be significantly varied from.
If that approach was extended TPs, presumably working on very explicit instructions from (Flight Test?) Engineers, then they probably have an approach to life unlikely to be very useful over here.
This, I should say, is pure conjecture on my part - I've never worked with a Russian trained TP, I've just picked up on a fair bit of discussion in 20 years in the game.
G
In the former Soviet Union, all military pilots, so presumably most test pilots, were not encouraged to think for themselves - detailed plans and instructions were generated on the ground and given to them not to be significantly varied from.
If that approach was extended TPs, presumably working on very explicit instructions from (Flight Test?) Engineers, then they probably have an approach to life unlikely to be very useful over here.
This, I should say, is pure conjecture on my part - I've never worked with a Russian trained TP, I've just picked up on a fair bit of discussion in 20 years in the game.
G
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Interesting and sensible speculation Genghis, but based on my experience of Russian test pilots I would say they had the same independent views as our ETPS graduates.
I spent four days with Valezi Molchanov (Tu’s tp on the Tu144) at Hanover in 1971 (his English was better than mine..) of the MiG guys I flew with their CTP Valery Menitsky in the MiG-29UB in 1990, plus went with him to help with his US lecture to SETP that year, I also spent a fair bit of time over the years with Anatoly Kvotchur both when he was with MiG and later after he became Deputy Chief of the Gromov Flight Research Centre. I also had dinner with Su’s CTP Victor Pugachev.
I do of course realise that having views as a tp is one thing and getting them acted upon quite another – however I never got the feeling that the guys I have mentioned were frustrated in their roles.
I spent four days with Valezi Molchanov (Tu’s tp on the Tu144) at Hanover in 1971 (his English was better than mine..) of the MiG guys I flew with their CTP Valery Menitsky in the MiG-29UB in 1990, plus went with him to help with his US lecture to SETP that year, I also spent a fair bit of time over the years with Anatoly Kvotchur both when he was with MiG and later after he became Deputy Chief of the Gromov Flight Research Centre. I also had dinner with Su’s CTP Victor Pugachev.
I do of course realise that having views as a tp is one thing and getting them acted upon quite another – however I never got the feeling that the guys I have mentioned were frustrated in their roles.
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I just read an interview with Soviet test pilot Georgy Mosolov, who stated "I didn’t just pilot the airplane. I also helped engineers perfect the design of the MiG-21".
I flew with a Russian test pilot on several flights for type certification testing. The overall experience was more than interesting in that he spoke no English and I no Russian, nor was the official translator (Anne from Bolton) experienced in aviation matters.
However, the testing was completed with the aid of an experienced Russian FTE on the jump seat who spoke ‘Toulouse’ English.
The Russian test crew were extremely professional and thorough; the pilot was widely experienced in a range of aircraft with emphasis on heavy military types and those with less desirable handing qualities or engine response. In Previous military careers we may have exchanged salutes over the North Sea.
I doubt that the pilot had undertaken a formal test flying course, more like accumulated experience in the role over many years, and more practical than theory. The FTE however appeared to have had recent formal training and that which provided knowledge of ‘‘Western’ civil test procedures and requirements.
The Russian certification requirements were broadly in line with JAA/EASA, with additional special conditions such max sideslip at MMO with an adverse engine out, and a demanding generality that the aircraft must be able to withstand any event previously encountered in a Russian accident! Thus, an autopilot roll-overpower, al la child on the flight deck (demonsrated in flight), and an all-engine-out landing, but only in the simulator.
However, the testing was completed with the aid of an experienced Russian FTE on the jump seat who spoke ‘Toulouse’ English.
The Russian test crew were extremely professional and thorough; the pilot was widely experienced in a range of aircraft with emphasis on heavy military types and those with less desirable handing qualities or engine response. In Previous military careers we may have exchanged salutes over the North Sea.
I doubt that the pilot had undertaken a formal test flying course, more like accumulated experience in the role over many years, and more practical than theory. The FTE however appeared to have had recent formal training and that which provided knowledge of ‘‘Western’ civil test procedures and requirements.
The Russian certification requirements were broadly in line with JAA/EASA, with additional special conditions such max sideslip at MMO with an adverse engine out, and a demanding generality that the aircraft must be able to withstand any event previously encountered in a Russian accident! Thus, an autopilot roll-overpower, al la child on the flight deck (demonsrated in flight), and an all-engine-out landing, but only in the simulator.
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Thanks for the sharing your experiences with Russian test pilots, very interesting! pprune at it's best. Re the initial question, Antonov in Ukraine also train test pilots, certainly a capable organization, send them an email if you feel adventurous Pilots Training Center
(They also train flight test navigators, and radio operators; a hint that there may be some differences compared to "western" aviation. I believe Russian language proficiency will be a prerequisite. Training is roughly half a year worth of theory, and flying 5 different types)
(They also train flight test navigators, and radio operators; a hint that there may be some differences compared to "western" aviation. I believe Russian language proficiency will be a prerequisite. Training is roughly half a year worth of theory, and flying 5 different types)
Last edited by deptrai; 3rd Jul 2015 at 21:20.
