Increase the odds to become involved in Flight Testing (career advice)
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Increase the odds to become involved in Flight Testing (career advice)
Good evening,
I am reading this forum for some years now with great pleasure. I also have read relevant treads related to my question / feeling, still, I would like to hear from professionals some advice on what I feel are principal decisions and thoughts about my job life.
I am a recent ~1 year aerospace engineering (2yr M.Sc.) graduate at a high ranked technical university. After graduation I found a job at a flight simulator company, this job is for me only so so connected to actual aerospace engineering and deals more with implementation and software and therefore ...
... I had a job interview today at an aerospace research institute. The job would be to work on a set of research simulators, mainly development and implementation of simulation software (flight models, systems, hardware), basically the same as my current job but more connected to research. One good thing about the institute is, they operate some aircraft which they use for high-profile research. The bad thing, my job there would not deal with those planes and the interviewer let me know in clear words that applying for this job to get into the planes department could prove to be a wrong bet. So, I am scared that taking this job will not bring me closer to ...
... My dream job of old which has been and is, flight test engineer, or at least, be an engineer involved in flight testing. I am a passionate engineer, I love the art of the plane, but I need to smell kerosene occasionally, and that is what I severely miss in my current occupation and probably my hypothetical next job.
Now what would the advice be to a 30yr old aerospace engineer who seeks to get into that FT profession. I have no flying experience other than the occasional flight-lesson-for-birthday-xx. My personal situation is such that I could start taking flying lessons. But, from 0 to CPL with no serious savings is a harsh and long road, and the question anyway is, will this bring me closer. Another question, given the fact that I can never afford myself a ETPS, or the likes, course or education, are there other current (most threads about this topic are some years old) educations I should seriously consider ?
I don't consider myself old, but saying that I can postpone this decision another 10 years wouldn't be very true. I feel that getting into such job will not happen by chance only and decisions need to be made. The question is, which decisions are in my case the most efficient.
In summary I feel I have these options:
- Take additional courses related to FT (Cranfield comes to mind);
- Take the modular road to, at least, a PPL + IR + CPL;
- Take the job at this research institute and hope that one day I will meet the chief pilot in the elevator;
- Pack my suitcase and leave for the US (UK) where I feel the chances of getting into the FT profession are higher (then in NL);
- Leave this whole FT idea because it is not as great as I think and the smell of kerosene comes only from the pilots who walk into my office.
Any of your thoughts and ideas are very much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!
ps: please advise if I posted this in the right forum, considered this one "Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)" as well
I am reading this forum for some years now with great pleasure. I also have read relevant treads related to my question / feeling, still, I would like to hear from professionals some advice on what I feel are principal decisions and thoughts about my job life.
I am a recent ~1 year aerospace engineering (2yr M.Sc.) graduate at a high ranked technical university. After graduation I found a job at a flight simulator company, this job is for me only so so connected to actual aerospace engineering and deals more with implementation and software and therefore ...
... I had a job interview today at an aerospace research institute. The job would be to work on a set of research simulators, mainly development and implementation of simulation software (flight models, systems, hardware), basically the same as my current job but more connected to research. One good thing about the institute is, they operate some aircraft which they use for high-profile research. The bad thing, my job there would not deal with those planes and the interviewer let me know in clear words that applying for this job to get into the planes department could prove to be a wrong bet. So, I am scared that taking this job will not bring me closer to ...
... My dream job of old which has been and is, flight test engineer, or at least, be an engineer involved in flight testing. I am a passionate engineer, I love the art of the plane, but I need to smell kerosene occasionally, and that is what I severely miss in my current occupation and probably my hypothetical next job.
Now what would the advice be to a 30yr old aerospace engineer who seeks to get into that FT profession. I have no flying experience other than the occasional flight-lesson-for-birthday-xx. My personal situation is such that I could start taking flying lessons. But, from 0 to CPL with no serious savings is a harsh and long road, and the question anyway is, will this bring me closer. Another question, given the fact that I can never afford myself a ETPS, or the likes, course or education, are there other current (most threads about this topic are some years old) educations I should seriously consider ?
I don't consider myself old, but saying that I can postpone this decision another 10 years wouldn't be very true. I feel that getting into such job will not happen by chance only and decisions need to be made. The question is, which decisions are in my case the most efficient.
In summary I feel I have these options:
- Take additional courses related to FT (Cranfield comes to mind);
- Take the modular road to, at least, a PPL + IR + CPL;
- Take the job at this research institute and hope that one day I will meet the chief pilot in the elevator;
- Pack my suitcase and leave for the US (UK) where I feel the chances of getting into the FT profession are higher (then in NL);
- Leave this whole FT idea because it is not as great as I think and the smell of kerosene comes only from the pilots who walk into my office.
Any of your thoughts and ideas are very much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!
ps: please advise if I posted this in the right forum, considered this one "Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)" as well
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Well, if you want to do ETPS or EPNER, then your options are limited, you must join QinetiQ (UK) or Airbus (Toulouse) as an engineer working in a design or trials environment, and then hope that you might get picked to go on the course. Assuming you get a job there, competition for course slots is very tight, and there are far from any guarantees.
The other option (like you say) is to get into a company which allow non-graduate engineers get involved in flight testing. Currently this means not France (because they have licensing for FTEs). So companies like QinetiQ Ltd, Focker, Marshall Aerospace, EADS (spain), Rolls Royce, Sabena, DLR etc. You will have to do it quickly, because EASA flight test licensing will hit all European nations soon, and you will find on-the-job training harder after that point! Ideally, you should try to get a job in a place where they test military aircraft, because you can get on-the-job training on non EASA programmes.
- Taking a flight test course is an option, but it will only help you to get your foot in the door, you would still start at the bottom of the pile (with either of the above routes) – personally I don’t rate them that much I prefer to see good academic background in a less generic engineering discipline (but that is just my own view).
- Going to the US is not going to help you, because you would need to be sponsored to get a work permit, and why would anyone give you a job when you are not trained.
- Doing PPL etc will be very useful, and your CV will stick out when apply for a FT related job – it makes a big difference because it demonstrates you love flying and are willing to invest in it as part of your future.
“Leave this whole FT idea” – only you know how much you want it. The opportunities are out there, but you have to work and fight for them. Waiting another 5 years will make it harder because of FTE licensing!
The other option (like you say) is to get into a company which allow non-graduate engineers get involved in flight testing. Currently this means not France (because they have licensing for FTEs). So companies like QinetiQ Ltd, Focker, Marshall Aerospace, EADS (spain), Rolls Royce, Sabena, DLR etc. You will have to do it quickly, because EASA flight test licensing will hit all European nations soon, and you will find on-the-job training harder after that point! Ideally, you should try to get a job in a place where they test military aircraft, because you can get on-the-job training on non EASA programmes.
- Taking a flight test course is an option, but it will only help you to get your foot in the door, you would still start at the bottom of the pile (with either of the above routes) – personally I don’t rate them that much I prefer to see good academic background in a less generic engineering discipline (but that is just my own view).
- Going to the US is not going to help you, because you would need to be sponsored to get a work permit, and why would anyone give you a job when you are not trained.
- Doing PPL etc will be very useful, and your CV will stick out when apply for a FT related job – it makes a big difference because it demonstrates you love flying and are willing to invest in it as part of your future.
“Leave this whole FT idea” – only you know how much you want it. The opportunities are out there, but you have to work and fight for them. Waiting another 5 years will make it harder because of FTE licensing!
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. I had a job interview today at an aerospace research institute
Simulation is becoming more and more important in all aspects of aviation and that includes flight test. The different approach required by research (and experience of that) would be excellent CV stuff for any FT position anywhere.
Various organisations use in-flight simulation because the real world and motion cues are of course 100% correct which greatly reduces the doubt about the overall validity of the tests.
I agree with FTE Pruner about a PPL but don't waste money going further.
Once you have a feel for what you are talking about regarding the research uses of simulation and believe you have experience and motivation to offer in that field, start writing to research organisations with your views and case for how you could help them. We know if you don't ask you don't get but there is much more to a FT job at this stage of aviation history than just asking. You have to keep asking and keep making the case for what you have to offer. Make sure you know all that is in the public domain about the projects of the organisations you approach and taylor your comments to how you could help them with XXX.
I am interested in your choice of Flutter speed as a handle. When I was young and at the peak of my FT career there were only two tests that I would not do without help. One was flutter and the other spinning. PM me with an email adress and I will explain why. With anything else I felt competent to write my own flight test programme that would get the required data and not risk the aircraft.
I think if you have enough experience of and thoughts about the use of simulation in research, you are well on the way to a job at (say) the likes of Calspan.
In your position I feel you should build your FT niche round simulation. Be determined to be the best in the world at the use of simulation in R&D and FT and you will make yourself the man to hire.
F-S, I`d also go and find a gliding club if you can`t afford the `powered `route`.There is an old song `You can do it ,if you really want it`,so take the opportunity...
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Thanks, all, for the very helpful comments. I understand that getting a PPL or at least some flying experience is something I should do. Getting a PPL has been on my list for a long time, so I will go for that.
Regarding this job opening, I am still not decided if it will bring me closer to my goal. Especially since they could only offer a temp contract for now. But yeah, as John pointed out, a research background might be that other extra distinction to get into the position I want.
One thing is sure, here in NL I will hardly find the position I am looking for. The UK seems now a good candidate, it seems anyway much more of a place to be for the aerospace minded.
Any other suggestions and ideas are highly appreciated.
Thanks again!
Regarding this job opening, I am still not decided if it will bring me closer to my goal. Especially since they could only offer a temp contract for now. But yeah, as John pointed out, a research background might be that other extra distinction to get into the position I want.
One thing is sure, here in NL I will hardly find the position I am looking for. The UK seems now a good candidate, it seems anyway much more of a place to be for the aerospace minded.
Any other suggestions and ideas are highly appreciated.
Thanks again!
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Consider what you can reasonably do
Traditionally it is more difficult to re-enter a research career after "mere" practical experience than it is to re-enter a practical career with previous theoretical experience.
- as a hobby
- as a money-earning profession
- how a hobby interest could advance a profession
- what doors you would close by choosing an option
Traditionally it is more difficult to re-enter a research career after "mere" practical experience than it is to re-enter a practical career with previous theoretical experience.
