Cenralised Load Control (CLC) at Servisair Regional Stations
 

Yes Servisair Management do it again.......................

Wave your jobs goodbye, people who work in Servisair Operations Departments at UK Regional Stations. You are going to loose your jobs to support Servisair staff at MAN when they take over CLC in May/June. Nice to see people will gain work at MAN (the station which loose the most money for servisair) while others loose there jobs around the UK.

Here we go, another cost cutting joke by Servisair Management.

WHICH BRIGHTSPARK THOUGHT OF THIS ONE THEN?

Does anyone know how this is going to work then? Will flight deck crews have to phone MAN to give flight details? Will someone be manning a ground to air radio in MAN to take calls from flight decks O/B an A/C or will it be someone will sit in an office with a head piece strapped to there head connected to someone in MAN who has got about 20 loadsheets to do in 10 mins? Is this where the errors and mistakes be made?

Does anyone work for a handling agent which has a simular sort of operation in action at present?

Through this again, Servisair will loose more experianced staff around the country which it cannot afford to do.

When will Servisair Management wake up and look at what there doing to our company. Most of you couldnt run a childrens play party!

Ask your Manager staff at - LPL, BFS, MME, CWL, LBA, JER cause your jobs are going sooner than you think. When are you going to be big enough to tell us then managers? The last minute, as usual, you dont care as long as you keep your job safe. YOU BUNCH OF COWARDS!

SERVISAIR SENIOR COMPANY MANAGEMENT, I HAVE 3 IDEAS OF HOW TO SAVE MONEY:

1) GET RID OF THOSE LOAD OF S**T WASTE OF MONEY POSTER BOARDS, GOD KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY COST TO BUY AND HOW MUCH THE POSTERS COST TO PUT IN THEM - A COMPLETE LOAD OF S**T!

2) STOP WASTING MONEY ON SOMEONE SAT IN HEAD OFFICE AT MAN CHANGING THE COMPANY WEBSITE EVERY 2 SECS

3) GET RID OF STATION MANAGERS AND THEIR COMPANY CARS, THEY ARE A WASTE OF TIME, MONEY AND EFFORT GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY DO OR WHY THEY EXIST (all of them) CANT DUTY MANGERS RUN A SITE?

And there was 3 ideas without even thinking!

Your pleasure Our business, Your business, Our pleasure, why not try looking after your staff as well as customers, they are important too. WHO WILL THEN PICK UP ALL THE PIECES WHEN THIS ALL ENDS IN DISASTER OR A MAJOR MIS-LOAD INCIDENT?

DONT FORGET NOW ALL OF YOU OUT THERE WHO WORK AS LOAD CONTROL IN SERVISAIR OPS DEPARTMENTS, ASK YOUR MANAGER HOW SAFE YOUR JOB IS NEXT TIME YOU SEE THEM! BECAUSE BELIEVE ME YOU WILL BE DOWN THE JOB CENTRE NEXT WEEK!

But never mind, we will all sleep well knowing that Servisair satation mangers will be safe playing on their computers in their warm office drinking coffee.............................. doing jack S**T! as normal, thinking of ways to lay off other staff................

The system you refer to seem's to work well at some of the larger station but I cant see it working at the smaller regional stations.

OPSMASTER

CLC sounds like a good idea to me and good business sense, are you saying that its more cost effective having F/T loadcontrollers sat at MME/CWL doing a few loadsheets a day compared to guys at MAN doing this and other stations work and in effect saving the company money.
Gate dispatchers at these small stations will telex CLC with individual flight details, fuel figures, loading details etc, and will then get the loadsheet sent to gate in similar way to other CLC operations.

opsmaster,

The implementation of Centralised (or Regionalised) Load Control is always a sensitive issue due to the possible loss of jobs at the airports where load control is being removed. This needs to be handled carefully by the organisations concerned.

From a procedural and safety perspective however, the concept is sound and, if implemented properly, does work and works well.

For what it is worth, the airlines that want to do CLC "properly" and not just to cut costs, spend a great deal of time and effort into making sure that their procedures have "checks and balances" in place to make sure that he processes are safe and robust. This specifically relates to communication issues requiring information to be passed by fax or telex, and having all phone/VHF conversations recorded for audit and investigation purposes.

The process works if done properly and should not be criticised when/if it is used "unwisely" by airlines or handling agents.

opsmaster:

when is this happening for sure?? i tell you it will not work especial at LBA we are too busy now to be chasing loadsheets, flightplans etc.. that we require from another station im sure MAN have plenty to deal with at the mo never mind all the crap from another station. What happens when a captain wants a new loadsheet 5 mins before departure on a busy sat afternoon, do we telex MAN wait for the Load control to notice the telex, then get a response 15mins after the STD because they have no bloody staff at CLC. This system is not going to work!!!

jimbols6 - It is coming in very soon!

Dont know how this is going to be cost effective - In many regional stations, Load Control is one of the areas where time is less spent on. By the time someone would have sent a telex to MAN, they would have had the loadsheet (with a lot less hassel) completed themselves.

So what costs are involved here:

1) The Telephone Call/Telex to MAN
2) An office in MAN for the CLC
3) A member of staff being paid in MAN to do the Loadsheets
4) Someone's time telexing MAN
5) Sita charges for the Loadsheet to be sent to the Station
6) Time spent chasing the loadsheet because the person in MAN is up to their eyes in fuel figures

Is this really cost effective? cant the load control task be given to someone else to add to there duties?

I think that there is 1 small bit of information that the 'Big Bosses' are missing.
At regional stations there is far less time spent by loadcontrol staff on loadplanning and loadsheets than there is on the rest of the admin work.
How many regional stations have more than 1 loadcontroller on shift at a time? I doubt there are many. So where will the saving come from? Regardless of who actually does the loadcontrol function there still has to be someone to answer the phone.

The main reason that i dislike the idea is on the ground of safety.
At the moment if there is any confusion over loading then anyone can ring loadcontrol for verification.
How many loaders or dispatchers have access to an outside landline??? How are they going to resolve the problem???
Quite simply they won't, they probably will just hope that it works out fine.
I forsee several miss-loads and probably some lost contracts in the future.



ICEHOUSE

If the gate dispatcher has the equipment and time to telex CLC with all the load and fuel details then why bother, it would be far quicker and less time consuming (therefore cheaper) for them to close the flight and produce a loadsheet themselves.

opsmaster:
ur just winding me and my collegues up arnt you, you dnt actual no when its happening or if is happening at all its just bull****, arnt you the person that started this thread last time. And if this was happening why was the april's load control course advertised to all station then??? YOUR AN IDIOT!!!


Nibor: I agree with everything youve said cheers!!

I have experience in CLC and it works a treat. The airline that operate it still do as far as i know - from bangkok. Basically each memeber of the turnround is responsible for their small little bit and enter figures to a central computer system. ie the flight engineer/fueller enters fuel on board figures, the loaders enter number of bags and position, the gate staff enter boarded passengers etc. When all fields are completed the loadsheet auto generates and is printed directly to the flightdeck via ACARS link. This means servisair that you cant fudge arrival and depature times either as this is sent on push back and wheels up to airline ops direct from the flight deck!

Oh and as far as loading goes this is auto planned by the system based on booked passengers, expected cargo, mail etc to ideal trim the aircraft and is printed via telex for the loaders to follow. Never once did i have a problem with trim / load.

Jimbols6

Opsmaster is correct in saying that this project is going ahead, if your in any doubt contact the guys at manch, its due to start in about 3 weeks time and I think job advertisments are being advertised through the servisair/globeground network this week for CLC loadcontrollers.
As opsmaster said before, its a cost saving exercise and it would mean that no loadcontrol qualified staff would be required at the smaller stations LBA, MME,CWL etc so saving money in the long term, I suspect eventually that the company intends to abolish the role of dispatcher and have Pax handling staff run the turnaround and simply bring pax and loadsheet to aircraft when requiured. I think the company also believes that it will improve service to some airlines when they operate A/C to the smaller stations and loadsheets are sent from CLC at MAN with no need for manual loadsheets to be completed for airlines such as BY, FCA, MYT etc

Capt.sparrow - what happens if you don't have acars?

jimbols6 - I will await an apology for being called an idiot within a month. Believe me, I wish I was messing around here, but can assure you im not! My job is on the line, I dont make jokes when its that serious!

Capt sparrow - You are talking too far advance in technology for Servisair. The process Servisair is implying is that someone phones/telexs MAN with the loadsheet details then they send the loadsheet to the relevent gate printer. No ACAS available where Servisair is involved!

Yes a job advertisment has gone out for CLC Load Controllers, 2 F/T and 3 P/T looking for 2 years dispatch and 1 years DCS load contol experience behind them.

I just cannot understand why if someone at a Station needs to be in the office to contol the operation, why cant they do the Load Control? Its not very time consuming, as I said before, more time is taken up in other functions than load control, If someones got to be there, why cant they just spend a little time completing the load control?

ACARS loadsheets are now being sent to Brit 763 aircraft at MAN FYI, think this is a trial period.

Just a little note..
We tried CLC..or CLP as we called it....
with 2 CLP centres, ...
.
We don't do it anymore.....
;)

spoke to my op manager and station manager, they have spk to the regional manager and there are to be no changes to the OPS Load control at Leeds, weve got that ad up in or office to!! the changes are at MAN only nothing to do with any other stations.
Plus we dnt want any other station doing are loadsheets we have plenty of problems as it stands without having to chase loadsheets, flight docs etc.. from another Station especially MAN cos im sure ur busy enough as it is.

cheers!!
:p

Jimbols6
Your info source is inaccurate, have been told LBA are included in this CLC, along with MME,LPL,CWL and possibly one more, there is no other reason to advertise the jobs if this isn't going ahead, lets wait and see.

right so the regional manager of SERVISAIR is wrong then?? i dnt think so!! The management at LEEDS have done the forcasting for the summer if this was taking place at Leeds they would have not just sent someone on the Load control course. Can you private message me a name a contact number of a senior person at MAN that has the info regarding LBA, or could you get them to contact the ops or station manager at Leeds then!!:suspect:

Well we have been told today that CWL Load control is going to MAN on 24th May. Look out other stations it seems its on the cards for alot of other stations too.

:suspect: :suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

SWS_airwales: do you do manual loadsheets at the mo or do u use codeco for Weight and Balance??

jimbols6

We use CODECO to create all load sheets except Ryanair.

That could explain why all the dispatchers at CWL are being trained to complete manual loadsheets............. To cover the cock ups that this system will cause. So to all the captains reading this, be prepared for quite a few delays untill Servisair realise that they have made a mistake by doing this. Well done to that bright spark who thought of it.

I just love the fact that many people will find out via this website and NOT through the company itself. Seems like management couldnt give a **** about their staff. I wonder what they will blame this cost cutting exercise on. 9/11??? Three numbers that seem to allow airline industry bosses to get rid of people.

The load control is only being centralised in June for smaller stations that only produce comparatively few loadsheets every day, ergo Cardiff, Inverness etc....

Yes we use Codeco at CWL to prepare loadsheets. MAN take over our load control on 24 May, the day Ops Staff at CWL get made redundant.

The company seem to think that 90% of our time is taken up by load control. WRONG. At CWL ops staff are also passenger handling supervisors, baggage agents and just about anything else you can think of. Yes, Load control is the most important thing that we do, but probably only takes 10% of our time. It is also pretty sad that we have to find out though a forums web site that we are about to loose our jobs. Thanks Servisair!!

Servisair issued a memo about cenralised load control today, saying it 'works very well for major airlines from a central operation'. maybe it is for an airline, but what about a ground handling agent? It is easier for an airline to do it as they do the flight planning so know the fuel load and then use there own inhouse system to produce a loadsheet. Yes, simple.

So what happens when the flightdeck crew cant get through to MAN? are they going to have to try and give there load details to a passenger services agent over the check-in desk?

If there is no operations staff, who is going to take calls from the airlines, man the VHF radio, co-ordinate staff etc?

CWL was re-structured 18 months ago, and we were cut from 14 full time staff to 6. we are now going to loose another 4. how are we meant to run a safe and efficent operation with hardly no staff?

Look out staff at other regional stations, we may be the test bate for this outragous move, but believe me, it will effect all soon.

Well, I get my P45 on 24 May, Then a trip to the job centre is due. Cheers the french/globeground, all you have done is ruin Servisair. you carry on like this and everyone will be out of a job!

I hope this completely goes tits up for the management, which i think it will.

Just been reading this post and I have to say that in all fairness, what servisair are doing is a load of s**t. I really cant see this working.

What will happen if the captain decides to uplift more fuel??? The DOI is out??? A group of pax are off loaded and the cptn wants a new load sheet -5min STD??? By the time we have telexed/phoned MAN with the new figures (if we can get an outside line), they have created the new LS (whilst creating and sending another flight's LS), sent the LS etc........we will be using delay codes.

Guys its going to be a tough summer....................Good luck and all the best to the people this effects. You will all be missed.

I can understand this happening at smaller stations like someone said earlier for stations who don't produce that many loadsheets, such as CWL, I under stand that CWL have lost the contract for Air Wales and BMI Baby, I checked out CWL DF in codeco yesterday, and if you were to take out AW & WW your left with a DF of 4 flts thats why it's happening in CWL and also can understand HUY & MME doing it too, but John Mullin one of the northern regional managers which cover LBA,LPL,MME does not know anything about this happening at these stations under him, the job oppurtunities that are up regarding CLC at MAN is just for MAN and maybe to do L/sheets for CWL or the other smaller stations, but we have too many flts at LBA and so do LPL for other stations to be doing our work coz like nibor said if they're doing it for cost cutting reasons then they're cutting their nose off to spite they're face coz your still gonna need a load controller to answer phones, use the ground to air radio, use the ground handling system, and to send the MVT/LDM msgs, and phone MAN every to pissing minutes,

No I think LBA & LPL are safe for quite some time yet, but if it happens I'll be on here again no doubt slating the blasted thing when we are all in a Dole que, but I think we are safe.

CHEERS!!!!:ok:

P.s my operations manager at LBA came into the office yesterday to ask us who we would send on the Load control course which is happening biginning of May now if LBA are gonna send 2 people on that course then that tells you that LBA are safe, I'm sorry for you guys in CWL and we'll all be in the same boat if it happens to us all, but good luck to all at this time.

:ok: :ok:

Hey Guys

Good Luck to you all when it happens. Operational wise it will depend from station to station how it works.

I'm in my 6th year and a ex pat working in CPH for Servisair. A very nice company over here with a VERY different set of goal posts. Servisair have had crazy ideas, they always have. I wont stop to say that only a small % of the "Thinkers and Idea makers" have the necessary experience to provide realistic ideas, the majority try to find new finical beneficial ideas but rarely stop to think about the workers.

Jut out of curiosity how many systems do you guys in the Uk work in? IN EDI it was 2, EI and Codeco. Here in CPH the dispatchers are the loadcontrolers, you are in complete control from the gate. The systems we have been trained on are of course Codeco, Gateon, FinCat, BA Babs and Swiss DCS. That's a lot of loadcontrol systems and entry's to remember.

I think we are one of only a few Servisair stations in Europe handling British Airways flights. We use CLC for these flights and its MUCH better than doing it yourself. If your station is setup well and your time limits are not tight it will work.

Good Luck to all you guys out there, I hope it works out for you. I cant see it working as Servisair is a mad dash last minute everything company compared to say a *Real* Airline

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Whats all that about JIMBO!!

Why the face:(

Does anyone know how much the salary is for a F/T Load controller in the CLC? Is the CLC in the airport or in offices outside the airport?

The CLC offices will be at MIOC which is some way from the airport close to Heald Green. (where they hold (or did) the codeco courses at MAN and where DCS support is located) so not one for the spotters thinking of going for it!

This has been on the cards for at least 5 years and came close to happening just before I left Servisair MAN nearly 3 years ago. If I remember correctly it was put off due to costs.

Stand 22
Was originally going to be located at MIOC but has been changed to commonwealth house next to the railway station at MAN and is then due to be moved to Atlas business park (head office) in a year or so if the project's a success, not sure about the pay though.

BEST L/CONTROLLER - at CWL during the summer DF will include 8-12 flights a day requiring CODECO loadsheets. (6G and WW don't use CODECO loadsheets anyway so the loss of that contract is irrelevant). 2 of CWl's dispatchers where sent on CODECO load control courses in JAN/FEB there is speculation that this was actually in preparation for the move (i.e backup load controllers to support the DM's), so looks like LBA are going down the same road.

At Cardiff there are many remote stands and no ramp car - an aircraft can frequently be 5 mins walk from a computer terminal. (CWL have no ramp cars, lots of security doors and not many (working) computer terminals)

Lets do the maths-

-60 Report to A/C & get figures
-55 Send figures to MAN (& send arrival)
-50 Return to A/C to dispatch
-45 Co-ordinate loading, boarding, fuelling etc.....
-30 Go to collect load sheet
-25 Collect loadsheet and print other paperwork
-20 Present loadsheet to captain
-15 Captain rejects loadsheet - return to terminal
-10 Call MAN and tell them
-5 New LS arrives
STD Present new LS
+5 Captain finishes his Rant - doors closed
+10 Push back

hmmmm - not much room for error.
Time spent actually dispatching aircraft 15 mins
Baggage offload required = Delay
Any irregularity whatsoever = Delay

Question - Since CODECO cannot produce a load plan for containerized aircraft - who's is going to produce the manual one at -60 such that the loadsheet when produced 120 miles away at STD-30 will trim?? I still can't see how this will work. (CWL will have between 2 and 5 containerized flights a day.)

Has anybody thought of what will happen with Cargo flights - Servisair at Cardiff are expected to produce loadsheets for daily TNT flights - I believe Servisair UK's only 'TNT loadcontrol trainer' (a CWL ops-supervisor/loadcontroller, trained in LGG at great expense only a few months ago) has just been made redundant due to the changes.

Plus – Diversions, large LMC’s, dangerous good’s, AVI’s, last minute rush bags, and other things that frequently change at the captains discretion.

One positive - Duty managers will now have to run operations and phone Manchester load control every 30 seconds. This could mean the station managers will have to take up the slack.

Well I'm off to see when they plan to train CWL dispatchers in manual load control and SITA because they have less than a month to do so.

Then just sit back and wait for the excretion to hit the rotary ventilator!

Just think how difficult it will be for those who handle the tinpot, little, low-cost air lines that can not even supply the correct DOW and DOI information to DCS.
I doubt very much that MAN L/C will bother to work out the correct DOW and DOI when there is a last minute aircraft change or crew config change. They would not have the time to look in the manuals and do all the maths (I did not mean that they just wouldn't bother, incase anyone replies).

Now lets think about the 'manual checkin to DCS loadsheet' problem. Will checkin have to ring MAN after the closure of every flight?

What about the stations that have more than just the codeco DCS system, will they just have do everything manual or are MAN going to look after these also?

Has anyone thought about ad-hoc flights or last minute positioning flights. Are airlines going to be told to send all handling requests to MAN and ring them with any aircraft changes.

Just think about it, when you try and ring a servisair station which number do you usually end up having to ring to get an answer? Load control. Who will answer the phone if they have gone?

Will crew have to call MAN for the EZFW?

CLC does work very well for some airlines, that is a proven fact.
It works because they have a single set of rules and impart a single set of procedures and level of training throughout their network.

It will not work well for a handling agent because each individual airline has it's own requirements and each airport it's own problems to overcome.

I could see it working at the large airports like MAN, LGW and any other where loadcontrol is exclusively that. Provided they stuck to IT traffic or those airlines which follow standard loading for every flight.

I have worked at an airport where a handling agent used CLC, there was an awful lot of ballast loaded at the last minute. Airlines do not like ferrying ballast around.

Awyrennwr:it ant gona happen at Leeds we have too many flights look at are DF, and the phone never stops ringing, so we are gona need someone in the ops office anyway. We have a problem with remote stands at leeds to, and its a pain in going back to that printer to get a new bloodly loadsheet had to go back three times for one flight on sunday!!

CHEERS!!!:ok:

JIMBOL6

Lets just say that MANCHESTER will be part of the CLC so i have no doubt whatsoever that LBA will not get a second thought. LPL are next and then one by one every single U.K station will follow except LGW. Also i know that just a month ago our Regional Manager (TH) told one of our staff that all jobs at CWL were safe until the end of the summer......Bull****e...... 4 weeks later 4 ops staff are made redundant. JIMBOL YOUR JOB IS NOT SAFE

I can see a lot of manual loadsheets being completed this summer as it will just be a waste of time trying to get in touch with CLC at manchester.

JIMBOLS6

I dont think an Employees Opportunites job advertisment has gone out, looking for 2 F/T and 3 P/T load controllers just to take CWL's work. Eventually, in time, they are going to take everyone's work. Servisair hasn't bought this in to just take one or two stations, the lot will go in the end!

Servisair arn't the ones for wasting money! Well, then again, those damn poster boards............................!


:ok: :ok:

Awyrennwr
Re the regional stations, as a former MAN L/controller we had about 120 daily summer codeco flts ex MAN couple of yrs back nd managed to keep the operation going ok, I guess it depends on cooperation from out station dispatchers and ability to send loading instructs,fuel figs, dow wts etc in time for this this to work, fully understand though concerns regarding usual trash carriers operating in summer with out of date wt & bal info!

in my opinion in a few years there just wont be a servisair, the management will have cut everything back until there is nothing left.
maybe in the long term we will be getting our LS from MAN but it still will not work anyway.

Having been a DCS load control instructor for many years at Servisair the standard of staff that attended from the smaller out stations was very good. However, knowing how other companies run centralised load planning the potential for success is there providing Servisair do it porperly with the right investment in both equipment and staff.

Servisair have the staff. What they dont have is proper funding from their french owners to invest in the right equipment. Ask your station manager how much they have had to tighten their belts.

At the end of the day, this WILL NOT work.