New Raf Ops O Post
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QJK04
The Int boys are responsible for preparing briefings for the CO and the like, so it's normally fairly high profile stuff. If you're interested in the subject matter you can excel.
Most of it you can probably guess - it's about receiving (as opposed to collecting !) stuff from higher up and producing briefings for aircrew and senior officers. Take Bagram, for example, you'll be the bloke to get the nod that we're going there and you'll have to dig out everything you can on the place, from climate to runway strengths.
As a whole it's a bit like watching CNN (where a lot of material originates !) but you'll be the bloke that has to develop a little fo your own commentary and assessment.
It's not James Bond meeting with Agent XXX in Warsaw !
If I was still enthusiastic enough, I'd probably opt for IntO on my application form - much closer to the sharp end than a blunty adminners discussing budgets, parades and leave policy
The Int boys are responsible for preparing briefings for the CO and the like, so it's normally fairly high profile stuff. If you're interested in the subject matter you can excel.
Most of it you can probably guess - it's about receiving (as opposed to collecting !) stuff from higher up and producing briefings for aircrew and senior officers. Take Bagram, for example, you'll be the bloke to get the nod that we're going there and you'll have to dig out everything you can on the place, from climate to runway strengths.
As a whole it's a bit like watching CNN (where a lot of material originates !) but you'll be the bloke that has to develop a little fo your own commentary and assessment.
It's not James Bond meeting with Agent XXX in Warsaw !
If I was still enthusiastic enough, I'd probably opt for IntO on my application form - much closer to the sharp end than a blunty adminners discussing budgets, parades and leave policy
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p.s.
forgot to add that it can be fairly dry too - many an IntO has bored me with his envious knowledge of SAM systems, but if you can put up with being a nerd, it's worth a shot.
...and still beats health & safety meetings in Admin Wing !
forgot to add that it can be fairly dry too - many an IntO has bored me with his envious knowledge of SAM systems, but if you can put up with being a nerd, it's worth a shot.
...and still beats health & safety meetings in Admin Wing !
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I recently underwent a very comprehensive, albiet informal, brief on Int and the future within the RAF; everything that has been said by DD and FOMere2 pretty well sum it up. Int is new and evolving fast, so far they are 58 junior officers short and are keen to recruit the right people, opportunites are varied, some posts will be dry but many are not and offer challenge and above all real satisfaction. Having been employed on a number of operational detachments over the last few years, it is clear that ops is really a peace time job and therefore, for me, hugely dissatisfying. My application for commissioning is in, P2 brief on 16 May and I am applying for Int.
I recently underwent a very comprehensive, albiet informal, brief on Int and the future within the RAF; everything that has been said by DD and FOMere2 pretty well sum it up. Int is new and evolving fast, so far they are 58 junior officers short and are keen to recruit the right people, opportunites are varied, some posts will be dry but many are not and offer challenge and above all real satisfaction. Having been employed on a number of operational detachments over the last few years, it is clear that ops is really a peace time job and therefore, for me, hugely dissatisfying. My application for commissioning is in, P2 brief on 16 May and I am applying for Int.
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Extract from FOTS Course
Extract from FOTS Course: How to file a Flight Plan
Receive Flight Plan from aircrew
|
V
Give Flight Plan to SAC -> No SAC -> Do Nothing
|
V
On return of SAC, B@llock Him/Her for skiving
|
V
Give Flight Plan to SAC
This was a former FS’s lighthearted introduction to the lesson.
Just to add a little bit of opinion I believe that TG9 has big troubles, experience levels at rock bottom, the rank structure all to c0ck and then there's the Fast Trackers.
Receive Flight Plan from aircrew
|
V
Give Flight Plan to SAC -> No SAC -> Do Nothing
|
V
On return of SAC, B@llock Him/Her for skiving
|
V
Give Flight Plan to SAC
This was a former FS’s lighthearted introduction to the lesson.
Just to add a little bit of opinion I believe that TG9 has big troubles, experience levels at rock bottom, the rank structure all to c0ck and then there's the Fast Trackers.
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Couldn't agree more! This has been a lively topic of discussion for a while in various corners but as usual nopbody in authority is willing to acknowledge this let alone do something. From my peasant like view point, FOMs and FOAs will always be overlooked in favour of Air traffikers, and the Flt Ops boys will take on anything to validate their existence, including all the duties once carried out by SNCOs, so where does that leave us? In no mans land thats where. It does not bode well that more and more bright young SACs and JNCOs are leaving prematurely because of poor job satisfaction and abysmal career prospects. Soon the only people manning TG9 on the ops front will be a motley collection of incompetant misfits.
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Hey Hey I acknowledged it! Found out another comedy bit of news though, they have a resident RAF air trafficer at AAS! Why?
A little harsh was Molesworths comment i think especially given my own competency level gained in the last two months, but i will admit and believe i have mentioned earlier in this thread that the course needs drastic alteration, which i shall embark on trying to do once returned from my PODL. Talking of which, MIL i should be back in the UK on or around 28 / 29 Jul. Gonna look to get posted but dont know where yet. On another note the otherones off in July.
Well to sum up the last two months for Mil, sun, sex, beer and watersports. ****** only two more to go!
PS: Please can i come to Incirlik in the future, go on....
A little harsh was Molesworths comment i think especially given my own competency level gained in the last two months, but i will admit and believe i have mentioned earlier in this thread that the course needs drastic alteration, which i shall embark on trying to do once returned from my PODL. Talking of which, MIL i should be back in the UK on or around 28 / 29 Jul. Gonna look to get posted but dont know where yet. On another note the otherones off in July.
Well to sum up the last two months for Mil, sun, sex, beer and watersports. ****** only two more to go!
PS: Please can i come to Incirlik in the future, go on....
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Hey DD, you are nothing more than a gloating GIT! How I envy you. If you come back with something that the Doc warned you against, oh how I will laugh. Spoke to youer oppo today, yup off early Jul to play with the ever shrinking RAF transport fleet, he seems upbeet about it. What are you up to? I take it that you are aware of various cost cutting measures underway, your man ain't being replaced.
I'm off to Maple Flag so won't be back until the end of Jun, what with your leave you won't be dusting the crap off your chair until August.
PS. No you can't come to Turkey, that's my job, you blighters will soon start easing yorselves in there given half a chance!
I'm off to Maple Flag so won't be back until the end of Jun, what with your leave you won't be dusting the crap off your chair until August.
PS. No you can't come to Turkey, that's my job, you blighters will soon start easing yorselves in there given half a chance!
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Hey Mil, I might, just might, have found a North American foothold - am planning to recce in Aug. If it's a goody I'll let you know...
Was talking to one of my oppo's today and we agreed it's time to leave and pensions and stuff just isn't attractive enough anymore. I already see myself in a few years time as the fed-up WO and it's simply not good enough - I'm not even sure there's a solution that I could pass on to the hierarchy - just lost it's fun and challenge somewhere...
Duck - you sound like you have your head screwed on and I wish you luck. Would I stay as a Rodney ? no, I really don't think so - better cap badge or not
the company missed it's chance 4 years ago and I'm very unforgiving. Some may call it bitterness, I call it an inability to recognise a potentially good deal. Until they start looking at the right people for posts and stop selecting on the basis of being a good all round chap, we're going to go bankrupt. (no implication there Duck).
Will keep you posted on my tunnel
Was talking to one of my oppo's today and we agreed it's time to leave and pensions and stuff just isn't attractive enough anymore. I already see myself in a few years time as the fed-up WO and it's simply not good enough - I'm not even sure there's a solution that I could pass on to the hierarchy - just lost it's fun and challenge somewhere...
Duck - you sound like you have your head screwed on and I wish you luck. Would I stay as a Rodney ? no, I really don't think so - better cap badge or not
the company missed it's chance 4 years ago and I'm very unforgiving. Some may call it bitterness, I call it an inability to recognise a potentially good deal. Until they start looking at the right people for posts and stop selecting on the basis of being a good all round chap, we're going to go bankrupt. (no implication there Duck).Will keep you posted on my tunnel
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An interesting read about the status of RAF ops.
I have a question for those still serving, I am a current RAAF ATC JO, considering a move from the colonies to the mother country.
Noting that the RAF is short on JOs, do they consider enlistments from O/S, into either ATC or OPSO slots?
Thanks...
I have a question for those still serving, I am a current RAAF ATC JO, considering a move from the colonies to the mother country.
Noting that the RAF is short on JOs, do they consider enlistments from O/S, into either ATC or OPSO slots?
Thanks...
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ATM,
See my initial response in the Mil Aircrew section, but lets add a little more. RAF OpsO jobs................Well as you have guessed from this thread they really are overemphasised in their importance. Whilst actually deploed OOA the job is interesting as you see the ultimate product of what you are doing, in my current case AT and primarily AAR at the moment. But we have to remember that the majority of OpsO post are throwbacks from the days when it was a ground tour for aircrew hence the high number on many units when, in reality, you would need one person.
For instance, on my unit we have too many people, to be frank you could nearly do away with the entire Sqn and have it run from the flying sqns if you gave them a couple of more bods. As for ATC i can't really comment, yes its busy, you can go and do area radar at LATCC or SCATCCbut as for going OOA very little opportunity exists unles we go to complete holes like Kabul and / Bagram. Again if you like controlling ac then why not go for it.
Anyway gotta go the mighty beasts have to soar again soon.
See my initial response in the Mil Aircrew section, but lets add a little more. RAF OpsO jobs................Well as you have guessed from this thread they really are overemphasised in their importance. Whilst actually deploed OOA the job is interesting as you see the ultimate product of what you are doing, in my current case AT and primarily AAR at the moment. But we have to remember that the majority of OpsO post are throwbacks from the days when it was a ground tour for aircrew hence the high number on many units when, in reality, you would need one person.
For instance, on my unit we have too many people, to be frank you could nearly do away with the entire Sqn and have it run from the flying sqns if you gave them a couple of more bods. As for ATC i can't really comment, yes its busy, you can go and do area radar at LATCC or SCATCCbut as for going OOA very little opportunity exists unles we go to complete holes like Kabul and / Bagram. Again if you like controlling ac then why not go for it.
Anyway gotta go the mighty beasts have to soar again soon.
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ATM
Not sure what the situ is in your neck of the woods (apart from scrapping your air force, which I guess could restrict the number of planes you get to control ) but it's not so great here.
Duck has told you a bit about OpsO, I know a little about ATC.
Career opportunities are there for ATCO's but as usual, it's a case of watch out for knives in the back - I deliberately chose not to convert to controller and one of the principle reasons was the environment. JO's do get more of a crack of the whip, cos they need em to be supervisors (as opposed to SNCO's) but getting a SATCO job one day is pretty tricky.
The only other thing I heard a while back - which has some merit financially - is the rumour that they might be looking to reduce officer posts in favour of SNCO's - quite simply cos they're cheaper in the long run. I emphasise that's a rumour and haven't seen any evidence.
There's a lot of penny-pinching in the company today and my best suggestion would be convert to civvy ATC or look elsewhere - perhaps USAF or CAF ? If you really want to come here, my money would be on OpsO, but only cause it HAS to get better - not cause it is much right now.
Ultimate suggestion would be head for the beach, crack a beer, get a barbie going and chuckle at our unfortunate existences !
Not sure what the situ is in your neck of the woods (apart from scrapping your air force, which I guess could restrict the number of planes you get to control
) but it's not so great here.Duck has told you a bit about OpsO, I know a little about ATC.
Career opportunities are there for ATCO's but as usual, it's a case of watch out for knives in the back - I deliberately chose not to convert to controller and one of the principle reasons was the environment. JO's do get more of a crack of the whip, cos they need em to be supervisors (as opposed to SNCO's) but getting a SATCO job one day is pretty tricky.
The only other thing I heard a while back - which has some merit financially - is the rumour that they might be looking to reduce officer posts in favour of SNCO's - quite simply cos they're cheaper in the long run. I emphasise that's a rumour and haven't seen any evidence.
There's a lot of penny-pinching in the company today and my best suggestion would be convert to civvy ATC or look elsewhere - perhaps USAF or CAF ? If you really want to come here, my money would be on OpsO, but only cause it HAS to get better - not cause it is much right now.
Ultimate suggestion would be head for the beach, crack a beer, get a barbie going and chuckle at our unfortunate existences !
He dives.... he recovers!
Yes, it was the smaller antipodean island group that lost its head/FJs.
(Kudos for not hitting the edit button )
Yes, it was the smaller antipodean island group that lost its head/FJs.
(Kudos for not hitting the edit button
)
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Thanks Duck and FOM,
It was the Kiwi's that sold their fighter squadron, the RAAF managed to pick up most of their personnel.
I would move to civilian ATC, but similiar to the RAF we are not accorded the civilian licence. Even though here in Aust we practically do the same job in Approach and Tower.
Yes, you probably wonder why move from the beach and barbie? A chance to live north of the equator, a change.
Brisbane is a nice city, you will enjoy the place Duck.
Thanks..
It was the Kiwi's that sold their fighter squadron, the RAAF managed to pick up most of their personnel.
I would move to civilian ATC, but similiar to the RAF we are not accorded the civilian licence. Even though here in Aust we practically do the same job in Approach and Tower.
Yes, you probably wonder why move from the beach and barbie? A chance to live north of the equator, a change.
Brisbane is a nice city, you will enjoy the place Duck.
Thanks..
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Afternoon all,
Been a way for a while and have just caught up on the latest on this thread. Flt Ops may have to get better FOMere2, however if you speak around the bazaars, things ain't all good. Many think its ok, however many more don't. Iwas speaking to the Flt Ops desk officer recently and even he admits that he has plenty of correspndence on his desk from the JO corps who all feel like skivvies. To add credence to his words I also spoke to a gadger at 2 gp who was quite clear in his view that the job is a waste of time and all they are doing are the duties of SNCOs and JNCOs.
It is quite clear that the RAF has got things horribly wrong and needs to assess things in better detail. If it was my company I would remove a significant number of OpsO's and replace them with SNCOs, who incidentally are cheaper, more experienced, understand the 'Company' system, and the wider picture for that matter. I could go on but I feel that the point has already been adequately made by others.
DD, for your info, I totally disagree with your view about the duties of a Flt Ops officer. All the duties you mention were once the preserve of SACs and Cpls. In my day I, as a JNCO, would deal with all these aspects, furthermore as a SNCO I was the ops officer out in Gioia when it was reopened in 1998 and dealt with every thing from C130s to multiple visiting fast jets to senior members of the Cabinet. Now all this has become the preserve of the commissioned mafia, are we not good enough, I think not! or is it more to do with ursurping the role of RAF SNCO FOMs?
Hardly surprising that people feel disenfranchised and undervalued, I do and intend to PVR soon as a direct result.
Been a way for a while and have just caught up on the latest on this thread. Flt Ops may have to get better FOMere2, however if you speak around the bazaars, things ain't all good. Many think its ok, however many more don't. Iwas speaking to the Flt Ops desk officer recently and even he admits that he has plenty of correspndence on his desk from the JO corps who all feel like skivvies. To add credence to his words I also spoke to a gadger at 2 gp who was quite clear in his view that the job is a waste of time and all they are doing are the duties of SNCOs and JNCOs.
It is quite clear that the RAF has got things horribly wrong and needs to assess things in better detail. If it was my company I would remove a significant number of OpsO's and replace them with SNCOs, who incidentally are cheaper, more experienced, understand the 'Company' system, and the wider picture for that matter. I could go on but I feel that the point has already been adequately made by others.
DD, for your info, I totally disagree with your view about the duties of a Flt Ops officer. All the duties you mention were once the preserve of SACs and Cpls. In my day I, as a JNCO, would deal with all these aspects, furthermore as a SNCO I was the ops officer out in Gioia when it was reopened in 1998 and dealt with every thing from C130s to multiple visiting fast jets to senior members of the Cabinet. Now all this has become the preserve of the commissioned mafia, are we not good enough, I think not! or is it more to do with ursurping the role of RAF SNCO FOMs?
Hardly surprising that people feel disenfranchised and undervalued, I do and intend to PVR soon as a direct result.
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DH
I think that's a company wide problem - there's always been the presumption that 1 bar (however thin) means you're a trustworthy chap, whereas 3 stripes makes you a council estate hero who can't quite be trusted.
Several, who I won't name, have said more or less exactly that when it comes to the credibility question. The answer, although it isn't one, is always that the officer side of the fence are simply much more capable and better human beings (or words to that effect ) Well HELLO company ! you've got it wrong !
See you on the other side DH - I feel the force pushing me and opportunity pulling me.......but I'll miss some stuff
I think that's a company wide problem - there's always been the presumption that 1 bar (however thin) means you're a trustworthy chap, whereas 3 stripes makes you a council estate hero who can't quite be trusted.
Several, who I won't name, have said more or less exactly that when it comes to the credibility question. The answer, although it isn't one, is always that the officer side of the fence are simply much more capable and better human beings (or words to that effect
) Well HELLO company ! you've got it wrong !See you on the other side DH - I feel the force pushing me and opportunity pulling me.......but I'll miss some stuff
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I would say that many of the views expressed are representative of many people I have met who have reached a point in their careers where they are looking for something else either inside or outside the RAF.
In the interests of balance I would like to point out that although I have worked with FOM’s who are interested, well motivated and enjoy the challenges of the job, I have met a fair few who are lazy and stupid. Of the last four I have worked with I would rate one to be exceptionally good and the other three to be poor to very poor. Unfortunately there are those who judge all, by the lowest common denominator and there are those who still look on FOM’s as those who couldn’t cut it as Air Traffic Controllers.
I’m not trying to be provocative, but the RAF is run by Officers for Officers and anybody else only has a subsidiary role. Flight Ops will continue as a branch because it supports a hierarchy above it, in the same way I think the number of SNCO ATC Controllers will steadily decrease until they reach the levels of 25 years ago, again to keep the various levels of management in jobs.
In the interests of balance I would like to point out that although I have worked with FOM’s who are interested, well motivated and enjoy the challenges of the job, I have met a fair few who are lazy and stupid. Of the last four I have worked with I would rate one to be exceptionally good and the other three to be poor to very poor. Unfortunately there are those who judge all, by the lowest common denominator and there are those who still look on FOM’s as those who couldn’t cut it as Air Traffic Controllers.
I’m not trying to be provocative, but the RAF is run by Officers for Officers and anybody else only has a subsidiary role. Flight Ops will continue as a branch because it supports a hierarchy above it, in the same way I think the number of SNCO ATC Controllers will steadily decrease until they reach the levels of 25 years ago, again to keep the various levels of management in jobs.