ops or crewing - which is harder ?
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ops or crewing - which is harder ?
wondered what you think. is ops a harder and more responsible job than crewing or is it the other way around ? ops and crewing people are often paid similar salaries but sometimes the difference can swing either way depending on what the particular company considers to be the more skilled role.
(not being a crewing person)i believe their
job to be the lesser as in my opinion they either have a crew (or can find one) and that crew can either do it or they can't. ops people on the other hand often call on their experience to make a decision which can be drawn from any number of possibilities they can find within their own flying programme.
(not being a crewing person)i believe their
job to be the lesser as in my opinion they either have a crew (or can find one) and that crew can either do it or they can't. ops people on the other hand often call on their experience to make a decision which can be drawn from any number of possibilities they can find within their own flying programme.
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In our company ops are probably seen to have the most responsibilty. As for workloads I personally think that crewings will always generally be higher especially when things go wrong. For example when ops have to swap aircraft around if one goes tech it takes them 2 mins to swap them around but for every aircraft strip they move we have on average 9 crew to move. Having said that I've witnessed the ops people tearing their hair out when there having a nightmare with slots, and we could be sat there with our feet up! swings and roundabouts!
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crewing is hard when you have to dial with people that want to fly with certain members, people that do not want to fly with certain members, people asking for more rest, for less rest, for that particular flight, for not making that particular flight..That's why automatic systems are still not fully able to manage crewing, and why crewing staff are so precious 
Ciao
Paolo
Ciao
Paolo
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Dada
Who generally sleeps on nights shifts and who does not?
I know a lot of Ops guys that started in Crewing but ended up in Ops, anyone go from Ops to Crewing?
Who are two a penny and who are very hard to find?
You make me so Angry!!!
Who generally sleeps on nights shifts and who does not?
I know a lot of Ops guys that started in Crewing but ended up in Ops, anyone go from Ops to Crewing?
Who are two a penny and who are very hard to find?
You make me so Angry!!!
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Now before everyone erupts into a slanging match vv whose better, remember dada likes nothing more than to wind people up - just check his profile 
Anyway why should one persons job be any harder/better/more demanding than anothers?
It's back to that old thing called 'team-work'
Now don't forget there are still those companys that have combined ops/crewing. So when you have a problem you own all of the problem not just your part.
Let the slanging commence
Anyway why should one persons job be any harder/better/more demanding than anothers?
It's back to that old thing called 'team-work'
Now don't forget there are still those companys that have combined ops/crewing. So when you have a problem you own all of the problem not just your part.
Let the slanging commence
In smaller airlines that I have seen, Ops have to sort out the problems crewing have not seen/addressed before they go home at 1700 daily, and Fridays thru 0900 Mondays.
Doc C.
ps. Not that it makes people bitter and twisted of course!
Doc C.
ps. Not that it makes people bitter and twisted of course!
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DC - and lets not overlook the problems ops cause crewing because they had difficulty following simple rules, or just not telling them what they had done til it's too late to prevent. 
Dada - now thats just too bad
Dada - now thats just too bad
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Oh dear back to that old chestnut - if only we were licenced then we would be capable of doing a half decent job!! Why - is your company's training not up to a standard to enable you to do your job??
Rostering - another group of under valued people
Ghoust-rider interesting anology. Cause ops staff never mis-file flight plans, send signals to the wrong stations, these things just don't happen.
Rostering - another group of under valued people
Ghoust-rider interesting anology. Cause ops staff never mis-file flight plans, send signals to the wrong stations, these things just don't happen.
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Lala - yep we make mistakes too. I'll freely admit that. 
And to be honest - this is a pointless thread because as you said - it is teamwork that makes it all gel together. Ops can't work without crewing and vice-versa.
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]
And to be honest - this is a pointless thread because as you said - it is teamwork that makes it all gel together.
Ops can't work without crewing and vice-versa.[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]
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Hi guy's and girl's,
I have an interview for easyjet crewing coming up,has anyone got any pointers.
IE:Is there a test paper what does it consist off.Salary,shift patterns etc.
Yes before anyone suggests it i will read up on cap371,anything else ?
And yes i am ops but i also do crewing as part of my day to day routine so i would like to find out what crewing is like on a permenant basis.
cheers in advance
Walla
33c outside and i am stuck in a ops room. Nice 
I have an interview for easyjet crewing coming up,has anyone got any pointers.
IE:Is there a test paper what does it consist off.Salary,shift patterns etc.
Yes before anyone suggests it i will read up on cap371,anything else ?
And yes i am ops but i also do crewing as part of my day to day routine so i would like to find out what crewing is like on a permenant basis.
cheers in advance
Walla
33c outside and i am stuck in a ops room. Nice
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Walla - good luck.
Shift patterns are combinations of 2days/3nights/5off, 3days/2nights/4off, 2days/2nights/5off or similar. 12hr shifts.
Salary is commensurate with quals and experience - we've just moved away from the 'crewing officer earns x amount, crewing controller earns x amount' etc. It's all graded now on the above criteria (ish).
CAP371 and JAR Ops should be essential night-time reading for you.
BTW - if you get the job you'll be stuck in an ops rm with the temp 33 deg INSIDE the ops rm !!
[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]
Shift patterns are combinations of 2days/3nights/5off, 3days/2nights/4off, 2days/2nights/5off or similar. 12hr shifts.
Salary is commensurate with quals and experience - we've just moved away from the 'crewing officer earns x amount, crewing controller earns x amount' etc. It's all graded now on the above criteria (ish).
CAP371 and JAR Ops should be essential night-time reading for you.
BTW - if you get the job you'll be stuck in an ops rm with the temp 33 deg INSIDE the ops rm !!
[ 29 July 2001: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]
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Ghost-rider how do you issue an illegal roster, or crews on wrong type? Thought you had the best computer system on the market, or is my aim off! 
Walla - good luck with the interview. Enjoy the reading, and just be yourself.
Walla - good luck with the interview. Enjoy the reading, and just be yourself.
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lalapanzi, they can issue an illegal roster by simply overriding the parameters set into the system. The system in use is a very good one,it's just a shame no-one in the company knows how to use it to its full potential.I know this, because I have to fly the rosters they produce!!
Walla, best of luck with the interview,if you just tell them that you hate / resent Pilots,then the job is yours!!!!
(ps you don't have to be accountable either! Great,innit?!)
Walla, best of luck with the interview,if you just tell them that you hate / resent Pilots,then the job is yours!!!!
(ps you don't have to be accountable either! Great,innit?!)
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now now, lets not be nasty about easy's rostering department - you have to accept mistakes when they only come in and work 3 hours a day (and that includes lunch)!?
after all, would we in ops and crewing have anything to do if we didnt have to keep picking up after their mess? oh yes, we are supposed to run the program arent we?
after all, would we in ops and crewing have anything to do if we didnt have to keep picking up after their mess? oh yes, we are supposed to run the program arent we?
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I would have enjoyed being a Crew Controller more if all the other Crew Controllers hadn't been retired or pregnant Cabin Crew, who didn't have any interest in aviation. This is not to say they weren't good at what they did, but if they weren't moaning about each other (In a Sybil Fawlty "ooh I Know" kind of way) then they were moaning about me.
The Ops staff however were a lot more interested in the industry and had stories galore to while away night shifts. Though sometimes they were a bit too spotterish.
From my time as a crew controller I would say that we had to work harder than the Ops Staff, BUT the Ops job was a better job overall. CAP 371 is not at all interesting.
Occasionally we used to have to massage the crews computer system roster to avoid a pilot hitting a weekly or monthly maximum.
WP
P.S
Did any of you used to work for Calidonian?
The Ops staff however were a lot more interested in the industry and had stories galore to while away night shifts. Though sometimes they were a bit too spotterish.
From my time as a crew controller I would say that we had to work harder than the Ops Staff, BUT the Ops job was a better job overall. CAP 371 is not at all interesting.
Occasionally we used to have to massage the crews computer system roster to avoid a pilot hitting a weekly or monthly maximum.
WP
P.S
Did any of you used to work for Calidonian?
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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I find Crewing these days is more of politics than anything else...i.e
I'm amazed at how crew attitudes have changed over the years...and this has a big impact on how easy/hard the crewing job is made!
Although I haven't really been activley involved in any sort of Operations Room scenario for quite a few months, the old charactures just don't seem to be around anymore. I'm talking about guys with backgrounds in great airlines like Dan-Air or Air Europe, I suppose most have retired but they seem to have been replaced by the next generation of Pilots - and some, not all, are the biggest "pansies" i've ever come across...
You still find the odd few that want to help out when things are pear shaped or have a great attitude to the job but the overall discipline of things has really fallen...
a)Crew Time Keeping
b)Not coming for changes after flights..
c)Sickness levels
d)Claiming fatique after a few sectors (when he/she actually live 100 miles from the A/pt!)
Maybe these all sound a bit petty but they make a big difference to the poor Crewing guys/gals. Looking back at the good old days of Excalibur at EMA..god, we didn't know how lucky we were!!! I've never experianced a Crew and Crewing relationship anywhere else like it...
As someone who is about to enter the Pilot fraternity, i'm glad I've had these experiances along the way, alot of lessons learn't.
Maybe i'm just asking too much...is it just me ? Any other Crewing Depts. care to tell ?
Wibbly P,
I was with CKT in 1991/92.
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: JB007 ]
I'm amazed at how crew attitudes have changed over the years...and this has a big impact on how easy/hard the crewing job is made!
Although I haven't really been activley involved in any sort of Operations Room scenario for quite a few months, the old charactures just don't seem to be around anymore. I'm talking about guys with backgrounds in great airlines like Dan-Air or Air Europe, I suppose most have retired but they seem to have been replaced by the next generation of Pilots - and some, not all, are the biggest "pansies" i've ever come across...
You still find the odd few that want to help out when things are pear shaped or have a great attitude to the job but the overall discipline of things has really fallen...
a)Crew Time Keeping
b)Not coming for changes after flights..
c)Sickness levels
d)Claiming fatique after a few sectors (when he/she actually live 100 miles from the A/pt!)
Maybe these all sound a bit petty but they make a big difference to the poor Crewing guys/gals. Looking back at the good old days of Excalibur at EMA..god, we didn't know how lucky we were!!! I've never experianced a Crew and Crewing relationship anywhere else like it...
As someone who is about to enter the Pilot fraternity, i'm glad I've had these experiances along the way, alot of lessons learn't.
Maybe i'm just asking too much...is it just me ? Any other Crewing Depts. care to tell ?
Wibbly P,
I was with CKT in 1991/92.
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: JB007 ]
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I have worked in both an OPS and Crewing position with various airlines. In my opinion Crewing is definately the hardest position between the two positions. As a Crewing Officer you have to deal with the Trolley Dolley's and they make the devil look good.