12hr shifts
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12hr shifts
Are 12hr shifts outdated?
How effective are you working 12hrs?
3-5am do you have all your 'wits' about you to make complex decisions?
Would a 3 x 8 hrs system be beneficial?
With the influence of the EU will shorter shifts be forced upon us?
How effective are you working 12hrs?
3-5am do you have all your 'wits' about you to make complex decisions?
Would a 3 x 8 hrs system be beneficial?
With the influence of the EU will shorter shifts be forced upon us?
Guest
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I think it depend on the situation and company. In our company we like the 12rs 4 on 4 off pattern.
I must admit that we did try the 8hrs shift pattern, but we found it difficult for staff level, hoilday cover and some other issue arise from this.(I still enjoy to take 3 days hoilday for 12 days off)
During ealier hours in the morning is not always busy, but we got all the preparation work for the next day and some flight returning from the state.
BRGDS,
Sai
I must admit that we did try the 8hrs shift pattern, but we found it difficult for staff level, hoilday cover and some other issue arise from this.(I still enjoy to take 3 days hoilday for 12 days off)
During ealier hours in the morning is not always busy, but we got all the preparation work for the next day and some flight returning from the state.
BRGDS,
Sai
Guest
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I always preferred 12hr shifts. The reasons are numerous, but I
think that the main one would be the time spent on days off
means that you get away for long enough to relax properly.
I have worked with 8hr shifts before, they always seem to drag
on and suddenly those 8 hours have started to stretch towards
10. The other big disadvantage with the 8hr shifts is that when
there is need to provide cover for sickness, or holidays etc there
is usually some poor sod who ends up cover their own shift and
then having to come back 8hrs later for another.
Just my 2 cents worth
rgds
T N
[This message has been edited by Tarek Nor (edited 23 June 2001).]
think that the main one would be the time spent on days off
means that you get away for long enough to relax properly.
I have worked with 8hr shifts before, they always seem to drag
on and suddenly those 8 hours have started to stretch towards
10. The other big disadvantage with the 8hr shifts is that when
there is need to provide cover for sickness, or holidays etc there
is usually some poor sod who ends up cover their own shift and
then having to come back 8hrs later for another.
Just my 2 cents worth
rgds
T N
[This message has been edited by Tarek Nor (edited 23 June 2001).]
Guest
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Good question. Personally I prefer a twelve hour pattern. The benefits of this far outway the negatives. My reasons are too numerous to mention, although the two prime reasons are days off for days worked and if you're working an 8.5 hour day anyway, an extra 3.5 doesn't matter too much IMHO.
I've also seen some of the riduculous roster patterns for a shorter working day, which not only seem to be confused but gain you too few days off at the end!
Certainly have to agree that the EU will have some influence on our working day. Although aren't transport workers exempt from certain EU regulations, including that of hours in a working day?
12 hour shifts and proper breaks....that'll do.
[This message has been edited by Stirling (edited 25 June 2001).]
I've also seen some of the riduculous roster patterns for a shorter working day, which not only seem to be confused but gain you too few days off at the end!
Certainly have to agree that the EU will have some influence on our working day. Although aren't transport workers exempt from certain EU regulations, including that of hours in a working day?
12 hour shifts and proper breaks....that'll do.
[This message has been edited by Stirling (edited 25 June 2001).]
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Thrust-bump my apologies obviously your experiences of working with me has affected you. 
It has been some years since I worked shifts, and when I did I always believed in allowing my assistants the scope to develope their skills and make decisions. If I had realised that this was too much for you then obviously I wouldn't have let it continue. You only had to say something
Anyway things obviously worked out for you as you have joined the ranks of the aircrew
Back to shifts - those I have spoken to do prefer 12hrs, mainly because of the time off earned. Something else if I may, how does your respective companies calculate your leave?
It has been some years since I worked shifts, and when I did I always believed in allowing my assistants the scope to develope their skills and make decisions. If I had realised that this was too much for you then obviously I wouldn't have let it continue. You only had to say something
Anyway things obviously worked out for you as you have joined the ranks of the aircrew
Back to shifts - those I have spoken to do prefer 12hrs, mainly because of the time off earned. Something else if I may, how does your respective companies calculate your leave?
Guest
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Lala - yes I have moved on to big and better things but I was NEVER your assistant. I wouldn't allow myself to become that shallow.
Seems now you are still in the pen pushing realms but still not pushing much out 
Nothing has changed much since the days when you sat on the black leather chair upstairs at the corner of the LTN hangar. Maybe going a bit greyer around the edges is the one thing that has changed, but then...... maybe not 
Seems now you are still in the pen pushing realms but still not pushing much out Nothing has changed much since the days when you sat on the black leather chair upstairs at the corner of the LTN hangar. Maybe going a bit greyer around the edges is the one thing that has changed, but then...... maybe not
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T-BSo you have never worked with me, but yet you feel qualified to offer an opinion about my working style.
I have not worked in any 'hangar' since the mid-eighties, and then can't remember if the chairs were leather, or really care. Bit extravagant for an ops dept.
Due to the ensuing passage of time, there is no way you are in a position to make any constructive comments. Now if you what to have a 'pop' at me fine, just make sure you have your facts correct.
Do feel free to either email or post and we can compare notes.
Oh, and in order to have gray edges one has to have something to go gray.
Hi Vipero - how's Italy's favourite Ramp Agent - oh sorry Dispatcher.
[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 26 June 2001).]
Guest
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Hi Guys,
I have to say I would go for the 12Hr shift anyday.
Yes it can be a long shift but beats the s.h.1.t. out of an 8Hr shift. First from a company point of view you have 3 handovers a day instead of 2 and we all know how long handovers can take on a bad day :-)
Yes you have the 4 days off are great which gives you alot of time to unwind before getting back into the s/h/1/t. that can be landed on you.
My main point would be the types of roster you would end up with on a 8Hr shift, could be finish on a night shift then start back on an early so only really 1 1/2 days off, or could end up working a week of earlies then lates then nights.
Give me the 12Hr shift anyday.
Brgds
OCC
I have to say I would go for the 12Hr shift anyday.
Yes it can be a long shift but beats the s.h.1.t. out of an 8Hr shift. First from a company point of view you have 3 handovers a day instead of 2 and we all know how long handovers can take on a bad day :-)
Yes you have the 4 days off are great which gives you alot of time to unwind before getting back into the s/h/1/t. that can be landed on you.
My main point would be the types of roster you would end up with on a 8Hr shift, could be finish on a night shift then start back on an early so only really 1 1/2 days off, or could end up working a week of earlies then lates then nights.
Give me the 12Hr shift anyday.
Brgds
OCC
Guest
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OCC,Have to agree with you!
I currently work 12.5hrs shifts on a 4/4 basis, and am concerned that moves may be taken in the near future to change to the 8hr, work every bloody day of the week, pattern!!!!!!!
12hrs are effective! Continuity is much greater, and therefore better decisiions taken as the big picture is known, and not just the last 2hrs you came on shift. If you get my drift?
Guest
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European Working Law Directives state the following: (read the last paragraph)
(i) workers to be entitled to a minimum of four weeks PAID holiday per year
(ii) an obligatory rest break for employees after 6 hours;
(iii) a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours;
(iv) a minimum average weekly rest period of 35 hours (ie 24 hours plus 11);
(v) night work not to exceed 8 hours on average per 24 hours, and never to exceed 8 hours if the work is specially hazardous or involves heavy mental or physical strain;
(vi) a requirement that laws must protect workers from the worst effects of monotonous work.
Exemptions cover a wide variety of employments ranging from total exemption for managing executives who do not have fixed hours of work and for the road, rail, air and sea transport industries, to partial exemption for staff at hospitals and in the emergency services.
Regards
MD
(i) workers to be entitled to a minimum of four weeks PAID holiday per year
(ii) an obligatory rest break for employees after 6 hours;
(iii) a minimum daily rest period of 11 consecutive hours;
(iv) a minimum average weekly rest period of 35 hours (ie 24 hours plus 11);
(v) night work not to exceed 8 hours on average per 24 hours, and never to exceed 8 hours if the work is specially hazardous or involves heavy mental or physical strain;
(vi) a requirement that laws must protect workers from the worst effects of monotonous work.
Exemptions cover a wide variety of employments ranging from total exemption for managing executives who do not have fixed hours of work and for the road, rail, air and sea transport industries, to partial exemption for staff at hospitals and in the emergency services.
Regards
MD
Guest
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Lala - I have worked with you but never as an Assistant. You weren't IN the hangar, but adjacent it in the room upstairs.I can only make judgments on what I have experienced whilst knowing you. Lets say many other people are of the same opinion as me
As for the lack of grey hair, yep, you need some (hair that is).
To answer the original question, working 12 hrs is no different than working 8hrs. If one is good at ones job, then being able to apply yourself over a 12hr period shouldn't be difficult. Like I said before, when you did 12hr shifts, you didn't actually do any work in the first place. Yes your assistants did most of the work, but that wasn't through you wanting to ensure they learn more. :P
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MD-11
Re yr last para
Don't get me wrong, I work the magic 12 Hr shift, you know, wher management tut when you turn up 15 mins before start time, but will not pay o/time for h/over, and would not change it.
Are you sure listed exemptions are not those covered by more, or similar restrictions elsewhwhere?
I only ask, remember the (SAA} frt agent, more than happy to work doubles, till it didnt suit. Newborn more important than money, and sued.......
It will not suit someone sometime (suits me)
then it is over to the courts..............
Bored
------------------
Speak the truth,accept the truth.....and only use one handle
Re yr last para
Don't get me wrong, I work the magic 12 Hr shift, you know, wher management tut when you turn up 15 mins before start time, but will not pay o/time for h/over, and would not change it.
Are you sure listed exemptions are not those covered by more, or similar restrictions elsewhwhere?
I only ask, remember the (SAA} frt agent, more than happy to work doubles, till it didnt suit. Newborn more important than money, and sued.......
It will not suit someone sometime (suits me)
then it is over to the courts..............
Bored
------------------
Speak the truth,accept the truth.....and only use one handle
Guest
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KYGMSY
How nice to hear from you Do you enjoy 12 hr shifts, assuming you work them?
Strange as it may seem no hidden agenda, just trying to gather some info to keep practices as they are!!!
T-B seems to be working to another agenda for whatever gain or reason. Its amazing what you can find out about people these days with the technology available - where their emails originate from. Take Jetset.co.uk hosted by another.com. Little programme I have just 'ping' the ip address takes you to the source of the message ( CBG as just an example ). Oops sorry went off the thread abit.
Back to 12hr shifts, how does your company calculate your leave entitlement compared to office workers? Do you get anything extra for bank holidays?
Thanks
[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 28 June 2001).]
How nice to hear from you
Do you enjoy 12 hr shifts, assuming you work them?Strange as it may seem no hidden agenda, just trying to gather some info to keep practices as they are!!!
T-B seems to be working to another agenda for whatever gain or reason. Its amazing what you can find out about people these days with the technology available - where their emails originate from. Take Jetset.co.uk hosted by another.com. Little programme I have just 'ping' the ip address takes you to the source of the message ( CBG as just an example ). Oops sorry went off the thread abit.
Back to 12hr shifts, how does your company calculate your leave entitlement compared to office workers? Do you get anything extra for bank holidays?
Thanks
[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 28 June 2001).]
Guest
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Same leave as office workers, but docked 1.5 leave days per shift (unless taking leave for admin, crewing etc, all 8 hour days)
4 on 4 off pattern, but seems unfair to me, 1 working day=1 days leave. Bank Holidays, 8 granted if worked or not, rostered day off is just that, no choice to take a bank holiday. No compo what so ever for 4 nights, starting Good Friday, ending Easter Monday.
Give up 3 Bank Holidays for a reduced roster over Xmas and New Year, No nights onto 8's for about Three ever shortening weeks. You guessed it, make plans at your own peril, Stay till it is sorted. (ie had a 2030 finish rostered, last one in at 0230 due disruption.
I work 48 hrs in 4 days, NO OVERTIME for handovers and earn my four days off, why dock me 1.5 leave days per shift?
Bored
P.S., Believe it is the same leave conditions fo Eng'g, also on 12 hour pattern
4 on 4 off pattern, but seems unfair to me, 1 working day=1 days leave. Bank Holidays, 8 granted if worked or not, rostered day off is just that, no choice to take a bank holiday. No compo what so ever for 4 nights, starting Good Friday, ending Easter Monday.
Give up 3 Bank Holidays for a reduced roster over Xmas and New Year, No nights onto 8's for about Three ever shortening weeks. You guessed it, make plans at your own peril, Stay till it is sorted. (ie had a 2030 finish rostered, last one in at 0230 due disruption.
I work 48 hrs in 4 days, NO OVERTIME for handovers and earn my four days off, why dock me 1.5 leave days per shift?
Bored
P.S., Believe it is the same leave conditions fo Eng'g, also on 12 hour pattern
Guest
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Boredcounter - thanks for the info. Leave and shift works has and will always be a conscientuous issue. Somewhere along the way compromises have to be struck.
T-B just an example I used whilst sitting in my black leather chair. So what do you fly?
[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 29 June 2001).]
T-B just an example I used whilst sitting in my black leather chair. So what do you fly?
[This message has been edited by lalapanzi (edited 29 June 2001).]