WHO DO ENGINEERS THINK THEY ARE?

[Epsilon minus]

In the interests of constructive debate please Go ahead

[FougaMagister]

Epsilon minus - while I agree that calling the flight/cabin crew "mate" is not acceptable (as I mentioned in my first post), I believe that the days of formality in the airline industry (at least in Europe) went out with the advent of the low-cost carriers a while ago.

However, I disagree with you when you write that

"you are entirely wrong in your opinions with regard to public address of those who hold rank above you"

The flight crew and me might have the same objective (ensuring a safe and speedy turnaround), but I am not a member of the crew - incidentally, we don't even have the same employer! Therefore, the Captain does NOT hold rank above me, as he/she does with the rest of his/her crew. I have excellent relations with pilots (being one myself) and cabin crew (having been one), but I always behave as an equal.

When I first started dispatching, a captain told me that whenever the aircraft was on chocks, I was the captain! Not very helpful for a newbie, but he had a point: the best thing the crew can do to help during the turnaround is actually... to interfere as little as possible! We also operate to standard operating procedures and the crews know it. That means that while the captain is still legally responsible, I am in charge of what's going on while the aircraft is on stand; of course, that also means accepting responsibility when things go wrong.

Cheers

P.S.: as for being called "Sir", I still catch myself turning round to check whether they are talking to somebody else...

[tournesol]

whenever I am not sure of the name, I call everyone Sir. What is wrong with a bit respect ?

[boxjockey99]

As an F/O what do people call me other than 'boy'? Referring to me as First Officer is a bit of a mouthful and since I hold the same type rating qualification as the skipper 'co' seems a little below my station.

Joking aside I am guilty of calling many many captains, F/O's and eng's 'mate' primarily because I know them. Ones I don't I don't refer to as anything rather I introduce myself. I have in the past called Captains 'Cheif' (again only if I know them). The big thing for me is if I know that person then my demeanor towards them changes to a more informal greeting. Those I don't know I show respect for until I do get to know them at which point the greeting again becomes less formal.

All of this seems a little OTT but just out of interest what would Eng's, Mech's, Captains, F/O's and dispatchers like to be called? Personally I don't care as long as there is a mutual repsect and we are all treated like adults. A cabin crew member once referred to me as 'brew boy' after having made the whole crew a cuppa on a previous turnaround which I have to say was a little more informal than I prefer and she was duly informed of her gaf.

Happy trails

Box

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by boxjockey99

All of this seems a little OTT but just out of interest what would Eng's, Mech's, Captains, F/O's and dispatchers like to be called? Personally I don't care as long as there is a mutual repsect and we are all treated like adults. A cabin crew member once referred to me as 'brew boy' after having made the whole crew a cuppa on a previous turnaround which I have to say was a little more informal than I prefer and she was duly informed of her gaf.
Happy trails
Box

Personally, I like my first name amongst working colleagues, sir by anybody after a large favour, and Dr.Genghis when I'm either teaching engineering in a university, or public speaking. But if somebody I don't know well has a formal title (Captain X, professor Y) I usually use that until invited to do otherwise, and usually still do so in front of their juniors / passengers, etc. I'm also quite fond of the old fashioned "Boss", which is well understood (and still used in the RAF).

But as box says, surely it's the attitude that really matters, not the words.

G

Engineer, Pilot, boffin, sometimes also make the tea.

[Milt]

Military Crews

Not having a good memory for names I always had difficulty with a military crew of more than about 5 as they were rarely the same people for long.
Consequently one had to resort to Captain, Co-pilot, Eng, Nav, Loadie 1, Loadie 2, AEO, Nose gunner, Mid upper, Wiso, Boomer etc. And what names are given to all of those system operators on a P3, a Nimrod or an Awacs ? Can't imagine the crew carrying around a directory.

Personal names will always be snafu for CRM especially in a stressful situation.

How does the RAF/RAAF/USAF currently solve this problem particularly when your Captains may not be the First Pilot ?

[woptb]

Originally Posted by Epsilon minus

FM
Are you a animal farmist?
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"
In our simeonesque society we have established a natural heirachy with God at the number one spot (would you refer to him as Mate?) and the rest of us falling into an organised ordination some way below him.
Whilst I would stop well short of obseqiousness and forlock tugging, deference is a mark of respect for someones position in society and not a notification of yours.
With regards to you refering to Judges by their first name, may I suggest, when you're up before the beak, that you address him as "your honour" or "my Lord" unless of course you don't care how long you go down for!

You appear to be posting from the latter half of the nineteenth century

[Epsilon minus]

You appear to be posting from the latter half of the nineteenth century

Dear me, I think you will find that the book was published in the first half of the 20th century. People were less opposed to good manners and polite address in those days.