Cenralised Load Control (CLC) at Servisair Regional Stations
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Swansea
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Yes we use Codeco at CWL to prepare loadsheets. MAN take over our load control on 24 May, the day Ops Staff at CWL get made redundant.
The company seem to think that 90% of our time is taken up by load control. WRONG. At CWL ops staff are also passenger handling supervisors, baggage agents and just about anything else you can think of. Yes, Load control is the most important thing that we do, but probably only takes 10% of our time. It is also pretty sad that we have to find out though a forums web site that we are about to loose our jobs. Thanks Servisair!!
Servisair issued a memo about cenralised load control today, saying it 'works very well for major airlines from a central operation'. maybe it is for an airline, but what about a ground handling agent? It is easier for an airline to do it as they do the flight planning so know the fuel load and then use there own inhouse system to produce a loadsheet. Yes, simple.
So what happens when the flightdeck crew cant get through to MAN? are they going to have to try and give there load details to a passenger services agent over the check-in desk?
If there is no operations staff, who is going to take calls from the airlines, man the VHF radio, co-ordinate staff etc?
CWL was re-structured 18 months ago, and we were cut from 14 full time staff to 6. we are now going to loose another 4. how are we meant to run a safe and efficent operation with hardly no staff?
Look out staff at other regional stations, we may be the test bate for this outragous move, but believe me, it will effect all soon.
Well, I get my P45 on 24 May, Then a trip to the job centre is due. Cheers the french/globeground, all you have done is ruin Servisair. you carry on like this and everyone will be out of a job!
I hope this completely goes tits up for the management, which i think it will.
The company seem to think that 90% of our time is taken up by load control. WRONG. At CWL ops staff are also passenger handling supervisors, baggage agents and just about anything else you can think of. Yes, Load control is the most important thing that we do, but probably only takes 10% of our time. It is also pretty sad that we have to find out though a forums web site that we are about to loose our jobs. Thanks Servisair!!
Servisair issued a memo about cenralised load control today, saying it 'works very well for major airlines from a central operation'. maybe it is for an airline, but what about a ground handling agent? It is easier for an airline to do it as they do the flight planning so know the fuel load and then use there own inhouse system to produce a loadsheet. Yes, simple.
So what happens when the flightdeck crew cant get through to MAN? are they going to have to try and give there load details to a passenger services agent over the check-in desk?
If there is no operations staff, who is going to take calls from the airlines, man the VHF radio, co-ordinate staff etc?
CWL was re-structured 18 months ago, and we were cut from 14 full time staff to 6. we are now going to loose another 4. how are we meant to run a safe and efficent operation with hardly no staff?
Look out staff at other regional stations, we may be the test bate for this outragous move, but believe me, it will effect all soon.
Well, I get my P45 on 24 May, Then a trip to the job centre is due. Cheers the french/globeground, all you have done is ruin Servisair. you carry on like this and everyone will be out of a job!
I hope this completely goes tits up for the management, which i think it will.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Was Rhoose Regional
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Just been reading this post and I have to say that in all fairness, what servisair are doing is a load of s**t. I really cant see this working.
What will happen if the captain decides to uplift more fuel??? The DOI is out??? A group of pax are off loaded and the cptn wants a new load sheet -5min STD??? By the time we have telexed/phoned MAN with the new figures (if we can get an outside line), they have created the new LS (whilst creating and sending another flight's LS), sent the LS etc........we will be using delay codes.
Guys its going to be a tough summer....................Good luck and all the best to the people this effects. You will all be missed.
What will happen if the captain decides to uplift more fuel??? The DOI is out??? A group of pax are off loaded and the cptn wants a new load sheet -5min STD??? By the time we have telexed/phoned MAN with the new figures (if we can get an outside line), they have created the new LS (whilst creating and sending another flight's LS), sent the LS etc........we will be using delay codes.
Guys its going to be a tough summer....................Good luck and all the best to the people this effects. You will all be missed.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: West Yorkshire
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I can understand this happening at smaller stations like someone said earlier for stations who don't produce that many loadsheets, such as CWL, I under stand that CWL have lost the contract for Air Wales and BMI Baby, I checked out CWL DF in codeco yesterday, and if you were to take out AW & WW your left with a DF of 4 flts thats why it's happening in CWL and also can understand HUY & MME doing it too, but John Mullin one of the northern regional managers which cover LBA,LPL,MME does not know anything about this happening at these stations under him, the job oppurtunities that are up regarding CLC at MAN is just for MAN and maybe to do L/sheets for CWL or the other smaller stations, but we have too many flts at LBA and so do LPL for other stations to be doing our work coz like nibor said if they're doing it for cost cutting reasons then they're cutting their nose off to spite they're face coz your still gonna need a load controller to answer phones, use the ground to air radio, use the ground handling system, and to send the MVT/LDM msgs, and phone MAN every to pissing minutes,
No I think LBA & LPL are safe for quite some time yet, but if it happens I'll be on here again no doubt slating the blasted thing when we are all in a Dole que, but I think we are safe.
CHEERS!!!!
P.s my operations manager at LBA came into the office yesterday to ask us who we would send on the Load control course which is happening biginning of May now if LBA are gonna send 2 people on that course then that tells you that LBA are safe, I'm sorry for you guys in CWL and we'll all be in the same boat if it happens to us all, but good luck to all at this time.
No I think LBA & LPL are safe for quite some time yet, but if it happens I'll be on here again no doubt slating the blasted thing when we are all in a Dole que, but I think we are safe.
CHEERS!!!!
P.s my operations manager at LBA came into the office yesterday to ask us who we would send on the Load control course which is happening biginning of May now if LBA are gonna send 2 people on that course then that tells you that LBA are safe, I'm sorry for you guys in CWL and we'll all be in the same boat if it happens to us all, but good luck to all at this time.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Copenhagen
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Hey Guys
Good Luck to you all when it happens. Operational wise it will depend from station to station how it works.
I'm in my 6th year and a ex pat working in CPH for Servisair. A very nice company over here with a VERY different set of goal posts. Servisair have had crazy ideas, they always have. I wont stop to say that only a small % of the "Thinkers and Idea makers" have the necessary experience to provide realistic ideas, the majority try to find new finical beneficial ideas but rarely stop to think about the workers.
Jut out of curiosity how many systems do you guys in the Uk work in? IN EDI it was 2, EI and Codeco. Here in CPH the dispatchers are the loadcontrolers, you are in complete control from the gate. The systems we have been trained on are of course Codeco, Gateon, FinCat, BA Babs and Swiss DCS. That's a lot of loadcontrol systems and entry's to remember.
I think we are one of only a few Servisair stations in Europe handling British Airways flights. We use CLC for these flights and its MUCH better than doing it yourself. If your station is setup well and your time limits are not tight it will work.
Good Luck to all you guys out there, I hope it works out for you. I cant see it working as Servisair is a mad dash last minute everything company compared to say a *Real* Airline
Good Luck to you all when it happens. Operational wise it will depend from station to station how it works.
I'm in my 6th year and a ex pat working in CPH for Servisair. A very nice company over here with a VERY different set of goal posts. Servisair have had crazy ideas, they always have. I wont stop to say that only a small % of the "Thinkers and Idea makers" have the necessary experience to provide realistic ideas, the majority try to find new finical beneficial ideas but rarely stop to think about the workers.
Jut out of curiosity how many systems do you guys in the Uk work in? IN EDI it was 2, EI and Codeco. Here in CPH the dispatchers are the loadcontrolers, you are in complete control from the gate. The systems we have been trained on are of course Codeco, Gateon, FinCat, BA Babs and Swiss DCS. That's a lot of loadcontrol systems and entry's to remember.
I think we are one of only a few Servisair stations in Europe handling British Airways flights. We use CLC for these flights and its MUCH better than doing it yourself. If your station is setup well and your time limits are not tight it will work.
Good Luck to all you guys out there, I hope it works out for you. I cant see it working as Servisair is a mad dash last minute everything company compared to say a *Real* Airline
Join Date: Jan 2003
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The CLC offices will be at MIOC which is some way from the airport close to Heald Green. (where they hold (or did) the codeco courses at MAN and where DCS support is located) so not one for the spotters thinking of going for it!
This has been on the cards for at least 5 years and came close to happening just before I left Servisair MAN nearly 3 years ago. If I remember correctly it was put off due to costs.
This has been on the cards for at least 5 years and came close to happening just before I left Servisair MAN nearly 3 years ago. If I remember correctly it was put off due to costs.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Stand 22
Was originally going to be located at MIOC but has been changed to commonwealth house next to the railway station at MAN and is then due to be moved to Atlas business park (head office) in a year or so if the project's a success, not sure about the pay though.
Was originally going to be located at MIOC but has been changed to commonwealth house next to the railway station at MAN and is then due to be moved to Atlas business park (head office) in a year or so if the project's a success, not sure about the pay though.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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BEST L/CONTROLLER - at CWL during the summer DF will include 8-12 flights a day requiring CODECO loadsheets. (6G and WW don't use CODECO loadsheets anyway so the loss of that contract is irrelevant). 2 of CWl's dispatchers where sent on CODECO load control courses in JAN/FEB there is speculation that this was actually in preparation for the move (i.e backup load controllers to support the DM's), so looks like LBA are going down the same road.
At Cardiff there are many remote stands and no ramp car - an aircraft can frequently be 5 mins walk from a computer terminal. (CWL have no ramp cars, lots of security doors and not many (working) computer terminals)
Lets do the maths-
-60 Report to A/C & get figures
-55 Send figures to MAN (& send arrival)
-50 Return to A/C to dispatch
-45 Co-ordinate loading, boarding, fuelling etc.....
-30 Go to collect load sheet
-25 Collect loadsheet and print other paperwork
-20 Present loadsheet to captain
-15 Captain rejects loadsheet - return to terminal
-10 Call MAN and tell them
-5 New LS arrives
STD Present new LS
+5 Captain finishes his Rant - doors closed
+10 Push back
hmmmm - not much room for error.
Time spent actually dispatching aircraft 15 mins
Baggage offload required = Delay
Any irregularity whatsoever = Delay
Question - Since CODECO cannot produce a load plan for containerized aircraft - who's is going to produce the manual one at -60 such that the loadsheet when produced 120 miles away at STD-30 will trim?? I still can't see how this will work. (CWL will have between 2 and 5 containerized flights a day.)
Has anybody thought of what will happen with Cargo flights - Servisair at Cardiff are expected to produce loadsheets for daily TNT flights - I believe Servisair UK's only 'TNT loadcontrol trainer' (a CWL ops-supervisor/loadcontroller, trained in LGG at great expense only a few months ago) has just been made redundant due to the changes.
Plus – Diversions, large LMC’s, dangerous good’s, AVI’s, last minute rush bags, and other things that frequently change at the captains discretion.
One positive - Duty managers will now have to run operations and phone Manchester load control every 30 seconds. This could mean the station managers will have to take up the slack.
Well I'm off to see when they plan to train CWL dispatchers in manual load control and SITA because they have less than a month to do so.
Then just sit back and wait for the excretion to hit the rotary ventilator!
At Cardiff there are many remote stands and no ramp car - an aircraft can frequently be 5 mins walk from a computer terminal. (CWL have no ramp cars, lots of security doors and not many (working) computer terminals)
Lets do the maths-
-60 Report to A/C & get figures
-55 Send figures to MAN (& send arrival)
-50 Return to A/C to dispatch
-45 Co-ordinate loading, boarding, fuelling etc.....
-30 Go to collect load sheet
-25 Collect loadsheet and print other paperwork
-20 Present loadsheet to captain
-15 Captain rejects loadsheet - return to terminal
-10 Call MAN and tell them
-5 New LS arrives
STD Present new LS
+5 Captain finishes his Rant - doors closed
+10 Push back
hmmmm - not much room for error.
Time spent actually dispatching aircraft 15 mins
Baggage offload required = Delay
Any irregularity whatsoever = Delay
Question - Since CODECO cannot produce a load plan for containerized aircraft - who's is going to produce the manual one at -60 such that the loadsheet when produced 120 miles away at STD-30 will trim?? I still can't see how this will work. (CWL will have between 2 and 5 containerized flights a day.)
Has anybody thought of what will happen with Cargo flights - Servisair at Cardiff are expected to produce loadsheets for daily TNT flights - I believe Servisair UK's only 'TNT loadcontrol trainer' (a CWL ops-supervisor/loadcontroller, trained in LGG at great expense only a few months ago) has just been made redundant due to the changes.
Plus – Diversions, large LMC’s, dangerous good’s, AVI’s, last minute rush bags, and other things that frequently change at the captains discretion.
One positive - Duty managers will now have to run operations and phone Manchester load control every 30 seconds. This could mean the station managers will have to take up the slack.
Well I'm off to see when they plan to train CWL dispatchers in manual load control and SITA because they have less than a month to do so.
Then just sit back and wait for the excretion to hit the rotary ventilator!
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Just think how difficult it will be for those who handle the tinpot, little, low-cost air lines that can not even supply the correct DOW and DOI information to DCS.
I doubt very much that MAN L/C will bother to work out the correct DOW and DOI when there is a last minute aircraft change or crew config change. They would not have the time to look in the manuals and do all the maths (I did not mean that they just wouldn't bother, incase anyone replies).
Now lets think about the 'manual checkin to DCS loadsheet' problem. Will checkin have to ring MAN after the closure of every flight?
What about the stations that have more than just the codeco DCS system, will they just have do everything manual or are MAN going to look after these also?
Has anyone thought about ad-hoc flights or last minute positioning flights. Are airlines going to be told to send all handling requests to MAN and ring them with any aircraft changes.
Just think about it, when you try and ring a servisair station which number do you usually end up having to ring to get an answer? Load control. Who will answer the phone if they have gone?
Will crew have to call MAN for the EZFW?
CLC does work very well for some airlines, that is a proven fact.
It works because they have a single set of rules and impart a single set of procedures and level of training throughout their network.
It will not work well for a handling agent because each individual airline has it's own requirements and each airport it's own problems to overcome.
I could see it working at the large airports like MAN, LGW and any other where loadcontrol is exclusively that. Provided they stuck to IT traffic or those airlines which follow standard loading for every flight.
I have worked at an airport where a handling agent used CLC, there was an awful lot of ballast loaded at the last minute. Airlines do not like ferrying ballast around.
I doubt very much that MAN L/C will bother to work out the correct DOW and DOI when there is a last minute aircraft change or crew config change. They would not have the time to look in the manuals and do all the maths (I did not mean that they just wouldn't bother, incase anyone replies).
Now lets think about the 'manual checkin to DCS loadsheet' problem. Will checkin have to ring MAN after the closure of every flight?
What about the stations that have more than just the codeco DCS system, will they just have do everything manual or are MAN going to look after these also?
Has anyone thought about ad-hoc flights or last minute positioning flights. Are airlines going to be told to send all handling requests to MAN and ring them with any aircraft changes.
Just think about it, when you try and ring a servisair station which number do you usually end up having to ring to get an answer? Load control. Who will answer the phone if they have gone?
Will crew have to call MAN for the EZFW?
CLC does work very well for some airlines, that is a proven fact.
It works because they have a single set of rules and impart a single set of procedures and level of training throughout their network.
It will not work well for a handling agent because each individual airline has it's own requirements and each airport it's own problems to overcome.
I could see it working at the large airports like MAN, LGW and any other where loadcontrol is exclusively that. Provided they stuck to IT traffic or those airlines which follow standard loading for every flight.
I have worked at an airport where a handling agent used CLC, there was an awful lot of ballast loaded at the last minute. Airlines do not like ferrying ballast around.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Awyrennwr:it ant gona happen at Leeds we have too many flights look at are DF, and the phone never stops ringing, so we are gona need someone in the ops office anyway. We have a problem with remote stands at leeds to, and its a pain in going back to that printer to get a new bloodly loadsheet had to go back three times for one flight on sunday!!
CHEERS!!!
CHEERS!!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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JIMBOL6
Lets just say that MANCHESTER will be part of the CLC so i have no doubt whatsoever that LBA will not get a second thought. LPL are next and then one by one every single U.K station will follow except LGW. Also i know that just a month ago our Regional Manager (TH) told one of our staff that all jobs at CWL were safe until the end of the summer......Bull****e...... 4 weeks later 4 ops staff are made redundant. JIMBOL YOUR JOB IS NOT SAFE
Lets just say that MANCHESTER will be part of the CLC so i have no doubt whatsoever that LBA will not get a second thought. LPL are next and then one by one every single U.K station will follow except LGW. Also i know that just a month ago our Regional Manager (TH) told one of our staff that all jobs at CWL were safe until the end of the summer......Bull****e...... 4 weeks later 4 ops staff are made redundant. JIMBOL YOUR JOB IS NOT SAFE
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JIMBOLS6
I dont think an Employees Opportunites job advertisment has gone out, looking for 2 F/T and 3 P/T load controllers just to take CWL's work. Eventually, in time, they are going to take everyone's work. Servisair hasn't bought this in to just take one or two stations, the lot will go in the end!
Servisair arn't the ones for wasting money! Well, then again, those damn poster boards............................!
I dont think an Employees Opportunites job advertisment has gone out, looking for 2 F/T and 3 P/T load controllers just to take CWL's work. Eventually, in time, they are going to take everyone's work. Servisair hasn't bought this in to just take one or two stations, the lot will go in the end!
Servisair arn't the ones for wasting money! Well, then again, those damn poster boards............................!
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Awyrennwr
Re the regional stations, as a former MAN L/controller we had about 120 daily summer codeco flts ex MAN couple of yrs back nd managed to keep the operation going ok, I guess it depends on cooperation from out station dispatchers and ability to send loading instructs,fuel figs, dow wts etc in time for this this to work, fully understand though concerns regarding usual trash carriers operating in summer with out of date wt & bal info!
Re the regional stations, as a former MAN L/controller we had about 120 daily summer codeco flts ex MAN couple of yrs back nd managed to keep the operation going ok, I guess it depends on cooperation from out station dispatchers and ability to send loading instructs,fuel figs, dow wts etc in time for this this to work, fully understand though concerns regarding usual trash carriers operating in summer with out of date wt & bal info!
Join Date: Apr 2003
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in my opinion in a few years there just wont be a servisair, the management will have cut everything back until there is nothing left.
maybe in the long term we will be getting our LS from MAN but it still will not work anyway.
maybe in the long term we will be getting our LS from MAN but it still will not work anyway.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Having been a DCS load control instructor for many years at Servisair the standard of staff that attended from the smaller out stations was very good. However, knowing how other companies run centralised load planning the potential for success is there providing Servisair do it porperly with the right investment in both equipment and staff.
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providing Servisair do it porperly with the right investment in both equipment and staff.
At the end of the day, this WILL NOT work.