Arrogant Pilots
 

Why do some pilots,particularly Captains, think the sun shines out thier ass when talking to Lames on the flight interphone.Dont these same pricks remember that the only reason they happen to be flying the aircraft, instead of fixing them, is that they probably had rich silver spoon Daddies to pay for their flying lessons as young blokes.Some of these pricks actually think they are smarter than the average Lame.These same pricks should speak with a lot more respect to Lame's, without forgeting that thier very lives depend on the good work we provide.You may get paid a bit more but always remember that if we f#$k up,we go to jail,whereas if you f#$k up,your in a box.Or pieces of you are anyway.The last time I looked,you can breathe in a jail cell.

Gee, you sound like such a charismatic chap, I can't imagine how anyone would want to be mean to you. :hmm:

I think someone wants a hug!! Having read your diatribe I get the impression that it's not the pilots in your company that have the problems. For heaven's sake, lighten up, life's too short for this kind of pettiness.

Try being nice about them first, they might reciprocate.

G

Genghis

Please go to the top of the class.

best post I have read to day.

So ture, I only wish some of the engineers I work with read your words of wisdom.

Wanty, you sound like you have a well balanced personality......

A chip on BOTH shoulders!:hmm:

Lighten up, life's too short.

Wound up like a cheap watch if you ask me.:}

Oh, please Sire, do fix my aeroplane, so that I can fly once again, and I will be forever greatful.:p :p :p

You can take that smirk off your face 411a, your no bl00dy better!!:E

Be careful....
 

Wanty, as a LAE I would be looking at having you removed from my crew and given some help before classing you as safe to work on aircraft. It scares me to think that thoses thoughts are in your head and that you can say them, even in jest. If, touch wood nothing ever does, somthing was to go wrong at your maintenance organisation and human error could be to blame, how do you think they would view your mental state?. At present you are a risk to yourself and others, sorry mate, but that is how it is.
As an engineer i have met loads of great pilots and some !!!! engineers and think it is more down to personality than job spec.
Anyway, dont get mad and have a little laugh by adjusting the harnesses in so that they feel fat everytime they get in and chuckle whilst they make excuses and try to loosen the harnesses without being noticed!

I learned quite a few years back that arguing with a pilot over anything concerning the airplane won't get you anywhere. You've got to be professionnal, polite, and if the pilot looses his cool at you like they sometimes do and lacks good behaviour, just give him the released log book with a big smirk on your face and say "have a great day sir!" as you close the door exiting the flight deck. He won't know what hit him and will feel pretty stupid for loosing his cool! Try it, it works, been there quite a few times.

Sorry guys,
Didn't mean to sound like a danger to anybody,just get a little peed off when someone speaks down to you, when I probably know more about how an aircraft system works than they do.Sure I have met and dealt with many
"geat" pilots, but from now on I will try not to look upon them all with the same eyes due to a few bad apples.So to speak.
As for the state of my mind sounding dangerous,please understand that every task I undertake on aircraft I work on,I always carry out said task under the assumption that my entire family is flying on the aircrafts next flight.Rest assured that this is always my mindset and this will never change.
Incidentally,have spoken to a pilot recently outside of work about this matter and he told me that I should try working with some of these blokes all day and that I have got it easy.
Sorry,but one thing I will never do is call these blokes is "Sir".

Good on you Wanty.

In this day and age nobody should bow down to anybody. Everybody has their job to do. Equal respect to every one.

Except..... female pilots that look like blokes. I find it acceptable to call them "Sir".

LOL Nfi.where I work,there are quite a few who do look like blokes too.

As an ex rigger/fitter who found his way to the front end and now occupies the left seat, I can concur with most of what Wanty has said although I don't quite like the tone of his first post. There are pilots who are complete pr**s who do treat Lames with less than the respect due to them. I find that if I talk to them the way I would like to be spoken to, listen to what they tell me and act accordingly, life is really quite agreeable. Trying to second guess Lames was always a bad move; I remember when I was one!
Incidentally, what's wrong with calling us Captain, or even using our names if you know it? I have been called all sorts, I am sure but Chief, Captain, John will all do but please don't call me Sir!

Sounds like I have pissed off a few people,quite unintentional.
Usually I address both pilots together and just say
"Excuse me fellas...." Most of the time this works just fine.But what I have found now, which seems to work best is to speak to the pilots in the same tone with which they speak to me.Believe me,I do like to speak nice to all people with whom I work.Just recently I had an autopilot snag and had to carry out some BITE checks etc, and was told to just wait outside until I am called.Fine I said,If we have a delay it isnt on my head.Saying this sure seemed to empty at least one seat in the cockpit in record time.

I usually say to the flight crew "shure, thats fine" and then grab my radio and advise operations that the delay is not maintenance related due to crew request. It seems to perk a whole lot of ears.
I dont mind filling out delay reports, I actually enjoy writing out individuals names, times, dates, part numbers, etc. A delay report with 'Lack of man power' seems to make all sorts of managers b**ch at you for writing it. But thats just me.

Hi Im sure that the initial post was written in anger and therefore the tone used wasent really intentional. But to say that all pilots had "silverspoon daddies" is just sad, some of us have actually worked our a**es off to get where we are. Me myself would be absolutly useless as an engineer, not really having that magic mechanical fingers, so thats why Im a pilot. That said Im not defending anyone who shows any sort disrespect why talking about here, to me it just sounds ridiculous to "show off" who´s actually the boss here.

On the other hand, based on the fact that you engineer guys have more technical knowledge then us pilots, there are situations where I can feel uneasy with a engeenering decision because of my limited technical knowledge. Regarding fault XYZ our books says this and that, but engeenering realeases the plane for dispatch and according to MEL its correct can easily make you feel uneasy when you realise that you dont really know whats going on, and after all you will have to take that airplane up in the air and maybe fly it to a less favourable runway.

Even though the release was correct, there is a source of anxiety and can sometimes cause irritation, especially when some engineers (I say some, far far from everybody) just rushes over the whole procedure and leaves you none the wiser. Delay or not, if I would feel uneasy I´d try to have the whole thing explained to me, even if that makes me look like a complete idiot in engeenering eyes.

After all, we are working together and not against eachother, most of us are not "silverspoon daddy" types and most of us dont have nothing against engeeners, more like great respect.

Hopefully you get respect by showing respect, hope I havent waster yours time now.

just my two C

/ Duece

please dont jump on me for my less then perfect english, its not my first or even second language.

wanty

Sounds like you've recovered nicely from your initial ambiguous post. :ok:

Yeah, some of them are pricks... but that's true of most groups of people. Just rember the liability that they have to accept as the Captain of an aircraft. No different to most peoples jobs in aviation, but none the less they will be the ones hung out to dry when it goes wrong.

Having said that, trust in your skills and those of your supervisors... if it is bad, make a call and stick to your guns. If the aircrew are rude and arrogant, wonder why they feel the need to belittle people like yourself.:cool:

"duece19"
Seems like I must be working for the wrong airline.Do wish more pilots with your attitude worked for my airline,we'd all probably get along much better.Admittedly my first post was posted after a particularly bad day when it seemed like most of the captains spoke to me like I was just a pleb.
I do realise that quite a lot of you actually had to work for !!!!ty freighter companies etc,to build your hours up, before being accepted,but do wish to ask these people to not forget thier roots.
:ok:

Cant honestly say ive met a proper arrogant pilot yet in my job. one or two that can be full of their own imporatnce, but harmless none the less.

I have met a few arrogant engineers while i was an apprentice!

Quote "Jar 66 is easier than BACR, your not a real engineer you didnt do an oral!" Yeh, ok im a young LAE, dont shoot me for it!

Most pilots are more than helpful and just let us get on with fixing the plane at our place. you get operational stresses of course, but were all big boys and girls , just part of the job!


Cheers

Stu.

Met a few arrogant P1s and 2s in my time,also a few arrogant Engs. What annoys me is when people leave the flight deck littered with papers and empty drinking cups when I'm supposed to work in there. Well I'm not cleaning up after you anymore. Your mates can do it before they take the next flight out.

Not, of-course, that this ever happens in engineers' crewrooms?

G

Yes it does, and I dont clean up after them either.

Why not look at cleaning flight decks from an economic point of view.

Aft of the flight deck door they pay to sit in the seat, so the company foots the cleaning bill.

Fwd of the door the company pays for who sits in the seat, so it is only fair that you tidy your own mess.

I guess this thread just confirms that airfolk are normal folk.

They get peed off with workmates
They conform to Maslow's triangle
They recover from bad days
They want positive solutions
They don't fit stereotypes

etc etc.

:ok:

Thats odd, past seven days nobody has asked me why the f/d hasnt been cleared of newspapers and half empty drinking cups. Is word getting around or are their wives/girlfriends nipping in and clearing up after them like they do at home?

Hi all
Get the cleaners to loop a plastic bag over the seat arm on each seat. Tell the pilots that any rubbish not in the bag will be left in place. It works with our lot.
regards
TDD

I also have a question:

"Why do some mechanics, particularly older senior ones, think the sun shines out thier (sic) ass when talking to pilots on the flight interphone."


Mr. warty, since your head-up-@rse attitude clearly indicates you are clueless, I will inform you:

Many pilots (myself included) worked their rings off in some sh!tty jobs saving the ca$h to get where they are then followed it up flying in some sh!tty GA jobs too, to work up the hours for the so-called "silver-spoon" lifestyle you ranted about.

You obviously were smoking some pretty good sh!t when you typed out that utter tripe.

You sound like the muttering, festering type who resents anyone whose hands aren't dirty or because they finished high school and/or went to uni but you didn't - "fancy candy-ass College boy......!"HAHAHA!!! I would hope so, warty, since you claim to be a mechanic, otherwise you should study for your exams a lot harder than you have so far!!!

You are not the only surly grease monkey in the aviation world. There are others who barge into the cockpit as if expecting a fight, don't bother saying "hello" or even mention just what it is they are tinkering with or whether it might take a while.

Snobbery, it is. They do not deign to speak with a soft-handed, white-collar daddy's boy pilot.

They are twits and will usually know full-well they are and cringe accordingly when you turn up later for a beer, having been invited by another engineer, who IS a good bloke, and knows how to get the respect from pilots without even trying.

Others can be dis-arming with merely a word: "G'day."

Incidentally, this is done by being a DECENT BLOKE and may earn you respect in return.

I wonder if you're the @rsehole who used to SLAM the tech-log box against the side of the aircraft when we pulled up.

I'm going to sit on the fence on this one, having one foot in each camp. I will say that there are probably more Licenced engineers that are qualified to fly an aeroplane than there are licenced commercial pilots who are qualified to fix them, though.

One exchange I had with a captain ( and I will admit that I'd had a bitch of a day, so wasn't at my diplomatic best ) was when I'd signed off his aircraft against the DDM, only to be told that he wasn't happy, and that his technical opinion was more important than mine because he was the captain.

My response was that nobody would dream of questioning the captains importance, but given the three autopilots that actually fly the aircraft, and it only taking one person to monitor it doing so, I would certainly be debating whether he was necessary. Is it really necessary to have two people watching the aircraft fly itself?

It took a while before the bottom lip started to quiver, but it made the point.

Most pilots that I've come across are great blokes and are only too keen to quiz you on what you're doing to fix it. This isn't out of a desire to question your professionalism or ability, but to understand more about what the switches actually do when the four ringed arm of God moves them.

engos with attitude....
 

Spoken like the sort of true fool who has never sat in the SIM and watched FLARE fail or a LOC deviation at low altitude on a Cat IIIb approach.

True, though. Would be better to only spend those moments aboard (just in case) and the rest monitoring from the couch at home.

So he said:

"My opinion over-rides yours."

And your response was:

"Well there are 3 autopilots here, maybe your job is redundant."


Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Did you finish with: "Nah-nah, nah-nah, NAAAAAAAH-naaah..."?

Did you uppercut yourself later on when you realised what a tw@t you'd made of yourself???

The old "pilotless airliners" line again. I can't believe some morons still push that old chestnut around. :rolleyes:

Well I learned that you should always, I mean always owe your mechanic a fair sum of money or at least a bottle of the finest whiskey. Then you should be able to count on your aircraft to be in good shape. :D

Scrubed

you are an arrogant ass, your post is to engineers what wantys first post is to pilots, have you learned nothing from this thread. However wanty has acknowledged that he had a bad day and went over the top. As an engineer I have lots of pilot friends and fly the jumpseat regularly. For an engineer I find this very good as it shows life from the pilots perspective and allows me a little reminder of nav systems in operation as I don'see it everyday and the crew get a chance to ask anything about a system or maint. procedure. A free exchange of info which benefits both pilot and engineer.
Crews and engineers are only people, subject to the same problems and characteristics as the rest of the world.

Sadly on both sides there are some assholes but in the main most are good people.

Scrubed I hope you are one of the good ones.........................;

:D

Like Prop Jocket, I too have a foot in each camp.

What I see from this position is two groups of talented and technical people who have absolutely no understanding of the other.

I regularly hear fellow engineers making generalised statements about pilots and pilots about engineers. These are normally completely inaccurate.

In a perfect world, all engineers should obtain a PPL and all pilots should spend 6 months in the hangar.

The results would be amazing after having "walked a milein the other man's shoes".

BB

I agree but if the engineer is gaining a ppl then surley the pilots should gain their basic licensce !!

Scrubed,

Oh but I have sat in the sim. I was doing a 737 rating ( self sponsored by the way ) and had done a few hours in the sims just as the naughty people downed the twin towers. I didn't see much point in continuing after that, so I may not be licenced to fly it, but am more than capable of doing so. Could you fix it? Doubt it.

If I may be uncharacteristic and take your bait for a moment, this thread is about arrogant pilots; your post has done nothing but reinforce the opinion that pilots are just that. If you have difficulty with the comprehension of that concept, ask a grown up to help you.

Read my post again. I think you may find that it was a response to a pilot who falls into the camp of arrogance.

The autopilot does fly the aeroplane. If it's bu&&ered you lot won't take it. Explain that away as you claim your salaries for being a pilot and "flying" your airliner. As for calling me a tw@t when you don't know who I am or what I do/have done in life it speaks volumes about you.

the impression I get of you isn't relevant to this forum. However, I will ask you this.....

Are you trying to tell me that they let immature little pr*cks like you fly airliners? God help us.

Rant over.

As an aside, I believe the saying came from the American Indians and was originally "until you walk a mile in another man's mocasins, you can't imagine the smell..."

Then it became a "do not judge him" thing. But at least if you do judge him all wrong, then at least you have his mocasins and you're a mile away by then...

PJ why so upset? Just because I pointed out the under-lying smugness beneath the thin veneer of your "conciliatory" post?

I guess I don't have much else to say since you still have your head up your @rsse about auto-pilots being more deserving of salary. Interesting you mention the notion of cash, though, as it now appears you also have an issue with who gets paid what and how much more someone else deserves it.

Sounds like you are definitely a closet pilot-issues case.

And you obviously don't know what a CAT IIIB ILS approach is or you wouldn't be mouthing off, especially if you were a passenger and I wuzz the guy in the front, pushing the buttons because even I'M scared of me doing it. At least,in the SIM where everything always seems to fail.

As for me, I once did a little time at the very bottom of the mechanic food chain. Enough to learn that they prefer to be called Aircraft Maintenance Engineers and that they work harder than the pilots whom I occasionally saw strolling casually about with clean hands.... so I changed paths after a week.

But I don't object to the idea of doing some time in the hangars now and then (provided it doesn't cost me any dough!!!!) and learning more about the machines. Sounds like a good idea to me and would help us appreciate each others roles too.

I learned a lot about what I flew from the engos in GA, some of whom also knew how to fly but were admittedly and understandably a little "ham-fisted," unlike we gifted.

I draw the line at baggage handling though, I did enough of that in the old days.

Hey PoopJacket, I'm on a layover next week and planning on getting trashed with two LAME mates who are both very very sick individuals. I'll ask if they know you... :ok:

Scrubed
 

You sound like the muttering, festering type who resents anyone whose hands aren't dirty or because they finished high school and/or went to uni but you didn't - "fancy candy-ass College boy......!"


Hey scrubed,
Indeed, I actually did finish high school, with honours I might add.Just quietly,I'm an Avionis Lame and don't get my hands dirty too often.Thought since you are getting so personally offensive,I would point out a few things.All those instruments and gadgets you (merely) read,I actually Know not (just) how to read them as you do,but I actually know how they all work internally as well ;) .Don't forget,when something goes wrong up there with you blokes,you only know how to go thru a checklist pre-prepared for you,by people who by and large, know that you probably can't be trusted to use your own judgement to fix said problem. ;)
Incidentally scrubed,if you would like to know what we are tinkering with as you point out,try reading the tech log.
Wanty.

What's an??? :confused:



What's a??? :confused:


Hey Warty, why didn't someone as smart as you say you are write a "pre-prepared"** checklist for the guys in the Sioux City crash to cover a total hydraulics failure?

What did those guys do without someone as clever as you to help them and with only their "own judgement" to rely on?

Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation???

See? You speak the sort of garbage as you have above and it can all be turned around and thrown back in your face.

Why are you trying to get under the skin of pilots? You don't like being a member of the team? Is that it?? You need to wake up and smell the kero, my friend. It's a team effort and you're no more important than anyone else.

Until you realise this you are a danger to the entire operation.



PS What kind of high school do you graduate "with honours" from????? HAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....!!!!


**you don't actually need to add the prefix "pre" as that is what prepared means



PPS if the "fix-ems" need to be treated "tenderly" in order to do their job professionally and correctly, then they should get a job at McDonalds instead of one where lives depend on their performance.

Hey Scrubed,
Hook, line and sinker. Ha Ha Ha.
Gotta tip for you mate,next time you post to a thread,try reading how old the thread is,you may as well have answered a thread 6 months old you "DUMMY"
Don't need to be treated tenderly as you put it,just don't like being spoken down to.Bit of mutual respect will do me fine.
Quote "Who fixed that airplane so well it came apart and put the pilots, crew and passengers in that situation??? " End Quote

The last time I looked,aircraft aren't held together with avionics wiring etc,I have always been under the impression that it was a structural thing which kept aircraft together,at least where I come from anyway.

PS The "c" button on my computer has been a bit intermittent lately until I pulled it apart and "repaired" it.Perhaps this will explain the "teh log" and "avionis Lame".

Seeya.

Before criticising a man, first walk a mile in his shoes....




That way, when he gets annoyed you are a mile away and he can't run.

G