Australian LAME SOE
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Australian LAME SOE
Hi guys.
I'm an avionics AME and I'm considering working towards a license on one of the airliners. For Soe purposes am I better doing line or heavy maintenance? In the long run which is a better career path?
I'm an avionics AME and I'm considering working towards a license on one of the airliners. For Soe purposes am I better doing line or heavy maintenance? In the long run which is a better career path?
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Best experience ever is a hangar job with AOG situations and up to A-checks. Guys in heavy maintenance often get lazy (here in EU at least) because if they don't finish the job, the next shift will.
Hangar guys have all the hands on experience, seen the aircraft more in dept, while line guys only now and than will have to go into systems.
Get your hands dirty in the hangar for a few years (approx.5-10 yrs) and you'll be a hotshot in line later.
All the best
Hangar guys have all the hands on experience, seen the aircraft more in dept, while line guys only now and than will have to go into systems.
Get your hands dirty in the hangar for a few years (approx.5-10 yrs) and you'll be a hotshot in line later.
All the best
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Heavy, as an example for mechanical AMEs they need to change a cockpit window as part of the SOE, they'll never do that in line maintenance.
Look at what's required for SOE besides hours, there are some jobs that must be done in certain chapters and those jobs are rarely if ever done during line maint.
Look at what's required for SOE besides hours, there are some jobs that must be done in certain chapters and those jobs are rarely if ever done during line maint.
Guys in heavy maintenance often get lazy (here in EU at least) because if they don't finish the job, the next shift will.
On the flip side if you are doing a big job, in heavy maintenance there is a possibility of seeing it all the way through. On the line the next shift are probably more likely to continue with it.
For my tuppenceworth heavy maintenance is the best bet to really get to know the aircraft inside out.
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You really need to experience a bit of both to know what path to take. But without doubt you will acquire the SOE quicker in a heavy maintenance environment.
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Spanners, which A/C? Apologies, did my apprenticeship on the 747 in heavy maint. Can't imagine trying to change a L1 or R1 window at the gate 
However you're right I've heard stories of HAECO changing engines, landing gear at the gate so never say never.
What I should have said is it'll take a lot longer to get the required SOE on the line, I found C checks were usually the best for collecting SOE.
I came across a line LAME having had the main deck freight moved was getting the floorboards lifted on 747 freighter to get access to a cargo fire detector / potable water pressurization problem, they could hear the air leak. He was surprised when I said why aren't you just going through the forward cargo, when I showed him he said sorry he's never done heavy maint and didn't know that access was possible through fwd cargo.
Never got the opportunity to do line maint, but would imagine a solid heavy maint background would be of benefit, however I know some heavy guys that aren't comfortable with the speed of line maint or the use of the MEL and would rather fix it to the detriment of OTP. But that would come with time on the line.
However you're right I've heard stories of HAECO changing engines, landing gear at the gate so never say never.
What I should have said is it'll take a lot longer to get the required SOE on the line, I found C checks were usually the best for collecting SOE.
I came across a line LAME having had the main deck freight moved was getting the floorboards lifted on 747 freighter to get access to a cargo fire detector / potable water pressurization problem, they could hear the air leak. He was surprised when I said why aren't you just going through the forward cargo, when I showed him he said sorry he's never done heavy maint and didn't know that access was possible through fwd cargo.
Never got the opportunity to do line maint, but would imagine a solid heavy maint background would be of benefit, however I know some heavy guys that aren't comfortable with the speed of line maint or the use of the MEL and would rather fix it to the detriment of OTP. But that would come with time on the line.
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If an A/C is stuck down route with a no-go problem, you could do almost anything on the line if necessary. that said, you'll find it really hard to get the experience needed for a licence if purely doing line work.
if you go onto helicopters however, you can do both at the same time. theres a few places where you can do both on fixed wing, but helicopters are often a one stop shop.
if you go onto helicopters however, you can do both at the same time. theres a few places where you can do both on fixed wing, but helicopters are often a one stop shop.
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Did 17 years in base/hangar work before vernturing on the line for the last 16, yes base/hangar experience is very good at giving you an edge on the line as, hopefully, you gain a real insight into things you don't NORMALLY see when on the line.
When things break, as they do, on the line not everyone has the luxury of nipping into a hangar. Engine changes on the ramp aren't too difficult with a bootstrap, done flap changes, windscreen changes etc mostly on 747's on the ramp, it can get interesting trying to change a flap in the snow with a 20 knot breeze!
When things break, as they do, on the line not everyone has the luxury of nipping into a hangar. Engine changes on the ramp aren't too difficult with a bootstrap, done flap changes, windscreen changes etc mostly on 747's on the ramp, it can get interesting trying to change a flap in the snow with a 20 knot breeze!
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Avionics under EASA rules
Hi Kev85, you should familiarise yourself with the latest changes to the Aussie regs. The new EASA Part 66 licence has devalued the Avionics trade significantly. You might want to consider structures and engines as well. Having what we use to call 5 cat. coverage i.e Engines, Airframe, Electrical, Instruments and Radio will make you much mor employable.
J
J
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Hi Kev85,
johnrhx is wrong about avionics being devalued. The main change is that FULL B1 guys will have some extra priveliges in Elec and minimal LRU replacement priveliges. There will still be a real requirement for Avionics guys in heavy and line environments.
good luck
johnrhx is wrong about avionics being devalued. The main change is that FULL B1 guys will have some extra priveliges in Elec and minimal LRU replacement priveliges. There will still be a real requirement for Avionics guys in heavy and line environments.
good luck
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Now, all courses are B1 and B2.
Contractor job are mainly B1 in the hangar.
B1 with B2 are appeared more in job search.
Avionic will be a history. But many B1 are useless in Wiring Diagram Manual.
More B2 are taking B1 exam to be B1.
Most line defects including APU change are done by line people outside in the open hangar with a few exception if the hangar is available. It costs over three thousands pounds to hire a hangar for a day. Will your boss think you are indispensable to be warm in the hangar.
Line nowadays is is a small kid job with computer literate mind to fix most defects. A380 CBs reset are mainly done using onboard PC. IFE is mainly the cabin defects which is normally fixed by hard reset. Same for most ECAM defects.
hangar experience provides basic in deep training. Line job is challenging and most of the time is to kick the tires.
Avionic???????? wil be only fairy tale soon. It is mainly one man per aircraft on line. Expecting B1 to open a panel for you by dragging him away from his departure aircraft.
Contractor job are mainly B1 in the hangar.
B1 with B2 are appeared more in job search.
Avionic will be a history. But many B1 are useless in Wiring Diagram Manual.
More B2 are taking B1 exam to be B1.
Most line defects including APU change are done by line people outside in the open hangar with a few exception if the hangar is available. It costs over three thousands pounds to hire a hangar for a day. Will your boss think you are indispensable to be warm in the hangar.
Line nowadays is is a small kid job with computer literate mind to fix most defects. A380 CBs reset are mainly done using onboard PC. IFE is mainly the cabin defects which is normally fixed by hard reset. Same for most ECAM defects.
hangar experience provides basic in deep training. Line job is challenging and most of the time is to kick the tires.
Avionic???????? wil be only fairy tale soon. It is mainly one man per aircraft on line. Expecting B1 to open a panel for you by dragging him away from his departure aircraft.
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kuchan,
must be a different world where you come from.
I am not even sure where you are headed with the warm hangar remark (I work in the tropics on line with no hangar, not often cold but usually wet.
Can a B2 or computer nerd kid fault find a nasty autopilot defect or loop fault in a pnumatic overhear sensor??
Opening panels is very challenging apparently, must be some compliacated tooling required there! Heaven forbid the avionics guy may even reseal the panel with goop when he is finished (in between departing aircraft).
As I said it must be a different world over there.
must be a different world where you come from.
I am not even sure where you are headed with the warm hangar remark (I work in the tropics on line with no hangar, not often cold but usually wet.
Can a B2 or computer nerd kid fault find a nasty autopilot defect or loop fault in a pnumatic overhear sensor??
Opening panels is very challenging apparently, must be some compliacated tooling required there! Heaven forbid the avionics guy may even reseal the panel with goop when he is finished (in between departing aircraft).
As I said it must be a different world over there.
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Line nowadays is is a small kid job with computer literate mind to fix most defects. A380 CBs reset are mainly done using onboard PC. IFE is mainly the cabin defects which is normally fixed by hard reset. Same for most ECAM defects.
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Indeed, we are on different world. UK is cold and AU is warm. UK is EASA B1 B2. AU, SG, MY is ?????
The aviation engineering is changing now.
Comet 3C was my first aircraft which requires a lot of engineering diagnose.
B707, B727,B737, B757,767, A300, A310. needs lot of brain activity.
A320, A330 A340 and esp A380 is a different world. AFS and autoland test is a doodle using MCDU.
A1 approval can even fix most ECAM faults by pulling FWC and SDAC CBs, and from MCDU system fault test.
Wanna a job, Get your EASA B1 B2, preferably UK CAA EASA. There are jobs for the experienced LAE. Be warned, you will be on your own without an artisan or mechanics helping you on a turn round.
The aviation engineering is changing now.
Comet 3C was my first aircraft which requires a lot of engineering diagnose.
B707, B727,B737, B757,767, A300, A310. needs lot of brain activity.
A320, A330 A340 and esp A380 is a different world. AFS and autoland test is a doodle using MCDU.
A1 approval can even fix most ECAM faults by pulling FWC and SDAC CBs, and from MCDU system fault test.
Wanna a job, Get your EASA B1 B2, preferably UK CAA EASA. There are jobs for the experienced LAE. Be warned, you will be on your own without an artisan or mechanics helping you on a turn round.
Last edited by Kuchan; 21st Jun 2011 at 14:37.
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Mainly for Airbus families
pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.
ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.
No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.
No fix, do hard reset
No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.
No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.
no fix, MEL.
Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.
B777 use onboard AMM to trouble shooting.
Avionic is no more in EASA. . It is B2 now. and B1 is doing more of Avionic works.
pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.
ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.
No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.
No fix, do hard reset
No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.
No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.
no fix, MEL.
Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.
B777 use onboard AMM to trouble shooting.
Avionic is no more in EASA. . It is B2 now. and B1 is doing more of Avionic works.
Last edited by Kuchan; 21st Jun 2011 at 21:07.
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''''
Kuchan
Mainly for Airbus families
pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.
ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.
No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.
No fix, do hard reset
No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.
No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.
no fix, MEL.
Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.
''''
If thats the way you work and thats your minframe then I really feel sorry for your employer & co-workers.
Kuchan
Mainly for Airbus families
pulling FWC and SDAC CBs on overhead panel= software reset= get rid of the white msg, class 1, and some amber fault.
ECAM fault= C/O MCDU system test, Fault normally disappears.
No fix, take the CBs reset quick reference bible book, pull CBs downstairs ( hardware reset) as per the bible.
No fix, do hard reset
No fix, BITE, re-rack black box.
No fix, you are in trouble. Call B1 or B2 LAE to start TSM. That is less than 5 % you need to trouble them.
no fix, MEL.
Not MELable. Leave it to next shift.
''''
If thats the way you work and thats your minframe then I really feel sorry for your employer & co-workers.
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flame_bringer quote "If thats the way you work and thats your minframe then I really feel sorry for your employer & co-workers. "
Don't feel sorry for me. I am £ in every minute. 99% aircraft went on time. That 1% need more time to TSM. That is more £ every minute.
Have a sense of UK humour, leaving it to next shift is just a common joke.
My employer wouldn't let be go and my co-workers are a bunch of good laughter.
Don't break an aircraft if it is not broken. Airbus new generation aircraft is different from B737.
A380 has remote CBs reset from onboard PC in the cockpit.
Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.
Don't feel sorry for me. I am £ in every minute. 99% aircraft went on time. That 1% need more time to TSM. That is more £ every minute.
Have a sense of UK humour, leaving it to next shift is just a common joke.
My employer wouldn't let be go and my co-workers are a bunch of good laughter.
Don't break an aircraft if it is not broken. Airbus new generation aircraft is different from B737.
A380 has remote CBs reset from onboard PC in the cockpit.
Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.
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Don't forget that new genration aircraft are 80% avionics (eg fly by wire no more control rods and pulleys and everything is wired and computerized).
I don't see where the B1 part in there.
""Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.""
Talk about yourself or your company norms never generalize, In where I work the avionics do everything ( eg opening panels sealing panels assist in the mechanical work towing pushback jacking assist in engine changes assist in wheel changes ..... and the list goes on)., plus we do the part that none of the mechanical guys ever bothered to take a look at which is wiring repairs and wiring manuals ESPMs (even though it's an EASA requirment that they demostrate competence at wiring manuals & repairs to obtain thier full B1) ..etc and frankly speaking iIv never come across a B1 engineer that even knows how to read a basic wiring manual or knows how to fetch the info from the ESPM.
To dispense with the avonics or the B2 category is impropable and same goes with B1 everyone does his job and both are indispensable.
I don't see where the B1 part in there.
""Sorry you never work on LINE. I hardly use my tool. It is a pen, a torch, a leathermen and a company approval stamp.""
Talk about yourself or your company norms never generalize, In where I work the avionics do everything ( eg opening panels sealing panels assist in the mechanical work towing pushback jacking assist in engine changes assist in wheel changes ..... and the list goes on)., plus we do the part that none of the mechanical guys ever bothered to take a look at which is wiring repairs and wiring manuals ESPMs (even though it's an EASA requirment that they demostrate competence at wiring manuals & repairs to obtain thier full B1) ..etc and frankly speaking iIv never come across a B1 engineer that even knows how to read a basic wiring manual or knows how to fetch the info from the ESPM.
To dispense with the avonics or the B2 category is impropable and same goes with B1 everyone does his job and both are indispensable.
Last edited by flame_bringer; 22nd Jun 2011 at 09:34.