blaming pilots for heavy landings?
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i know of a case when a crew landed on the nlg and said nothing. next flight gear wouldnt retract so had air return. when they finally changed the nlg and brought it to the shop it was impossible to remove the strut from the gear. it had to be cut out and was badly deformed.
crew were relieved of their positions!
crew were relieved of their positions!
).
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A change from a relative tailwind to a relative headwind on short final will require an increase in engine thrust to arrest the resultant airspeed decay
Are you sure about that?
I would imagine a relative headwind to tailwind change would decrease the airspeed.
The effect of this is to increase the rate of descent, which must be arrested with increased power. This does not affect lighter aeroplanes, whose low inertia allows the airspeed to adjust quickly anyhow.
A more gradual change (or a change at pretty much any rate on a lighter aeroplane), will have the opposite effect. A reduction in headwind component will mean that, whilst airspeed won't be affected, the aeroplane's touchdown point will move further down the runway. To maintain the touchdown point, the power will need to be reduced, not increased.
G
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Heavy Landings
Most factors have been mentioned but:-
Wind, turbulence, windshear and microbursts are Met examples.
Others are speed wrong at the threshold leading to "pushing" the aircraft on the ground.
Another is height (AGL) perception which may be caused by runway gradient or lighting effects at night.
Unstabilised approach.
Lack of CRM.
Lack of recency.
Inaccurate met or runway state report.
Just plain old fashioned handling fault.
Weight different from that stated.
Fuel imbalance.
Wonder we don't get more.
Overweight landing is a totally different issue.
Wind, turbulence, windshear and microbursts are Met examples.
Others are speed wrong at the threshold leading to "pushing" the aircraft on the ground.
Another is height (AGL) perception which may be caused by runway gradient or lighting effects at night.
Unstabilised approach.
Lack of CRM.
Lack of recency.
Inaccurate met or runway state report.
Just plain old fashioned handling fault.
Weight different from that stated.
Fuel imbalance.
Wonder we don't get more.
Overweight landing is a totally different issue.
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radalt characteristics
Can anyone tell me what is meant by "Tracking Capability"? For a Rockwell Collins LRA-900 it is stated to be 330ft/sec. Is this the limit of speed vertically or horizontally (descent rate or groundspeed)? If it is horizontal, what happens to accuracy if 330ft/sec is exceeded?
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The final authority for assessing whether a heavy landing has occurred rests with the crew (certainly listed in Boeing MMs), irrespective of what other methods have been used to determine the condition. The G-Limit varies with aircraft type, e.g approx 1.9 for 757, and approx 2.1 for 737.
However, due to the sampling rates a condition could be missed or seen as a lesser event, hence Boeing prioritise the crew report as the final authority. (For those of you who are pilots and have had a hard landing and are scratching around looking at the ACMS for a G figure, you probably should be filling in an ASR and calling for maintenance!). The Boeing Phase I heavy landing check almost always is quick and easy, and for the 737, is usually as far as it goes as it is quite a tough plane.
However, due to the sampling rates a condition could be missed or seen as a lesser event, hence Boeing prioritise the crew report as the final authority. (For those of you who are pilots and have had a hard landing and are scratching around looking at the ACMS for a G figure, you probably should be filling in an ASR and calling for maintenance!). The Boeing Phase I heavy landing check almost always is quick and easy, and for the 737, is usually as far as it goes as it is quite a tough plane.
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Not strictly true Spanners,
Sure, if the crew report a HARD landing (heavy is when the a/c is overweight). then the AMM phase 1 (and if required phase 2, etc) should be carried out. However with ACMS and FCQM systems now, in place I have been asked to carry out hard landing inspections on many occasions when there has been no flight crew entry in the log book.
Sure, if the crew report a HARD landing (heavy is when the a/c is overweight). then the AMM phase 1 (and if required phase 2, etc) should be carried out. However with ACMS and FCQM systems now, in place I have been asked to carry out hard landing inspections on many occasions when there has been no flight crew entry in the log book.
several times had the phonecall from maintrol saying they'd had a heavy landing report downlinked before the jet had arrived on stand ! as said previously the phase 1 inspection is straightforward . only 2 i've had in my career with damage were unreported , one a hunter the other a 757 .
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Mono,
yes more crews are unlikely to report a hard landing for the reasons mentioned above etc, but I think it is a company system that obligates the check,eg in yours a certain g for whatever fleet. However, if the event is on the cusp of a sampling rate, it may appear that the g loading is not so great and maybe borderline when in fact it could be a full blown weepie eye job.
That is why boeing state the final decision to report the heavy landing lies with the crew. (ie if it doesnt register but crew feel it is)
regds
yes more crews are unlikely to report a hard landing for the reasons mentioned above etc, but I think it is a company system that obligates the check,eg in yours a certain g for whatever fleet. However, if the event is on the cusp of a sampling rate, it may appear that the g loading is not so great and maybe borderline when in fact it could be a full blown weepie eye job.
That is why boeing state the final decision to report the heavy landing lies with the crew. (ie if it doesnt register but crew feel it is)
regds
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However with ACMS and FCQM systems now, in place I have been asked to carry out hard landing inspections on many occasions when there has been no flight crew entry in the log book.
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yes, exactly, because it will happen sooner or later! With datalink via satcom, it happens today at some airlines with exceedances etc with a speed you wouldnt believe. (Also mobile telephone cards that come alive and phone home without you knowing it, when the parking brake is set)
By the way, the guys who dont write it up in the logbook eventually are identified by a neutral party and invited to write up an ASR in retrospect. The worry is that the a/c will be out of compliance if not picked up, so more systems are put in place to assist with the decision to AOG it or not
If in any doubt write it up. Also, waiting to get back to base before doing so is totally wrong.
(There's usually a pecking order for blame: capt blames fo, fo blames autopilot, autopilot blames captain)
By the way, the guys who dont write it up in the logbook eventually are identified by a neutral party and invited to write up an ASR in retrospect. The worry is that the a/c will be out of compliance if not picked up, so more systems are put in place to assist with the decision to AOG it or not
If in any doubt write it up. Also, waiting to get back to base before doing so is totally wrong.
(There's usually a pecking order for blame: capt blames fo, fo blames autopilot, autopilot blames captain)
Last edited by spanners; 7th Feb 2011 at 21:31.
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Also, waiting to get back to base before doing so is totally wrong.
