British Aircraft Maintenance On The Decline
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Personally, I think that it is cyclic.
The economy is hurting everything, especially the British licenced engineer. The British engineer will turn out a quality product, because his/her standards are significantly higher than his/her Eastern European, Asian, African or American counterparts.
Why?
1. Language. The language of aviation is English. A native English speaker immediately has the advantage during theory and classwork. Is able to assimilate and gain knowledge quicker if one does not need to translate it first.
2. Apprenticeships and colleges. Most instructors immediately instil the belief that the British Engineer's licence is probably the hardest of all to obtain and once it is earned, you have risen to the status of a true professional. This professionalism stays with one throughout one's career. It takes an average of seven years to become a fully qualified B1 or B2 with a couple of type ratings.
3. British aviation history. Apart from the USA, Britain has (or used to have) one of the most advanced aviation manufacturing industries in the world.
4. Regulation. The UK CAA has consistently maintained the level of standards for a licensed engineer at the top tier of all the other European agencies. Corruption or impropriety would never be associated within the establishment.
5. Law. A licenced engineer is always reminded that it is his/her licence on the line every time a CRS is signed. There are very few institutions that would support someone who was prosecuted for negligence.
However this quality product that the British engineer produces, comes at a price. And too right it should!
Unfortunately Airlines are run by accountants who cannot quantify this quality in pounds, euros or dollars. All they see is the bottom line.
However, I believe that when they realise that poor workmanship performed at a cheaper establishment will turn out to be a false economy. Aircraft will start becoming unreliable, and heaven forbid, possibly a few accidents will happen. Or the regulators will clamp down.
The accountants will be forced to look for quality engineers (and I don't mean QA). The experts will be back in demand.
All you have to do is look at some MROs in the Far East or Middle East. All the top blokes are Brits!
The economy is hurting everything, especially the British licenced engineer. The British engineer will turn out a quality product, because his/her standards are significantly higher than his/her Eastern European, Asian, African or American counterparts.
Why?
1. Language. The language of aviation is English. A native English speaker immediately has the advantage during theory and classwork. Is able to assimilate and gain knowledge quicker if one does not need to translate it first.
2. Apprenticeships and colleges. Most instructors immediately instil the belief that the British Engineer's licence is probably the hardest of all to obtain and once it is earned, you have risen to the status of a true professional. This professionalism stays with one throughout one's career. It takes an average of seven years to become a fully qualified B1 or B2 with a couple of type ratings.
3. British aviation history. Apart from the USA, Britain has (or used to have) one of the most advanced aviation manufacturing industries in the world.
4. Regulation. The UK CAA has consistently maintained the level of standards for a licensed engineer at the top tier of all the other European agencies. Corruption or impropriety would never be associated within the establishment.
5. Law. A licenced engineer is always reminded that it is his/her licence on the line every time a CRS is signed. There are very few institutions that would support someone who was prosecuted for negligence.
However this quality product that the British engineer produces, comes at a price. And too right it should!
Unfortunately Airlines are run by accountants who cannot quantify this quality in pounds, euros or dollars. All they see is the bottom line.
However, I believe that when they realise that poor workmanship performed at a cheaper establishment will turn out to be a false economy. Aircraft will start becoming unreliable, and heaven forbid, possibly a few accidents will happen. Or the regulators will clamp down.
The accountants will be forced to look for quality engineers (and I don't mean QA). The experts will be back in demand.
All you have to do is look at some MROs in the Far East or Middle East. All the top blokes are Brits!
Wnglit I agree with many of your comments,but your statement;
" The British engineer will turn out a quality product, because his/her standards are significantly higher than his/her Eastern European, Asian, African or American counterparts."
Is patent nonsense.Have you worked with ALL the engineers from all the areas you list & at all the maintenance facilities.Being bitter about the way things are is understandable.
The idea that if English isn't your mother tongue that your a lesser engineer is ludicrous. Having worked all over the world,it's been my experience that the engineers & organisations (particularly in N America & the Far East) have standards similar & (in some cases) higher to those in the UK.I've worked with Muppets of many nationalities & they weren't all from outside the UK!
Don't start slating fellow engineers without some genuine basis to do so.
" The British engineer will turn out a quality product, because his/her standards are significantly higher than his/her Eastern European, Asian, African or American counterparts."
Is patent nonsense.Have you worked with ALL the engineers from all the areas you list & at all the maintenance facilities.Being bitter about the way things are is understandable.
The idea that if English isn't your mother tongue that your a lesser engineer is ludicrous. Having worked all over the world,it's been my experience that the engineers & organisations (particularly in N America & the Far East) have standards similar & (in some cases) higher to those in the UK.I've worked with Muppets of many nationalities & they weren't all from outside the UK!
Don't start slating fellow engineers without some genuine basis to do so.
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engineers skills
I agree with woptb, having working many engineers from all over the world it really isn't fair to say unless you are English you are not as good. During 40 some years one of the best engineer I worked for was from Khartoum and another from Spain. Its like saying all Americans are fat all Aussies big headed take everyone as you find them the world does not center around LHR as we found out when the world cup draw was made 
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Of course woptb, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I was just expressing mine which happens to be slightly different.
I didn't expect to post it without upsetting someone! It is very un-PC and very un-British!
However I stand by my comment. I too have worked all over the world. In fact I currently live overseas and work as an Overseas Station Engineer for a UK airline. I hold UK B1/B2, FAA A&P with IA and Canadian AME. The British one was by far the most difficult to earn, and is the most strictest one to maintain with all my type ratings.
I didn't expect to post it without upsetting someone! It is very un-PC and very un-British!
However I stand by my comment. I too have worked all over the world. In fact I currently live overseas and work as an Overseas Station Engineer for a UK airline. I hold UK B1/B2, FAA A&P with IA and Canadian AME. The British one was by far the most difficult to earn, and is the most strictest one to maintain with all my type ratings.
I found the A&P easy,a lot depended on who set your oral & practical,likewise there were UK surveyors under the old BCAR system who could give you a hard & others a relatively easy time.I found the CASA exams more difficult,but the OZ guys were no more 'stellar' as engineers than Brits I worked with.
To mangle an old saying,"licence doth not maketh man".Whilst at BA in the 90's there were guys wth tickets & approvals up the Ying Yang who couldn't walk & chew bubble gum! I've met many who could never pass the essay questions & others who got tongue tied & could never pass the oral,they weren't lesser engineers than me.
What you say doesn't annoy me ,it's just odd that someone whose demonstrated the 'Noble Laureate like' levels of intelligence required to become a UK licenced engineer,isn't able to comprehend that nationality, or where your licence was issued has much bearing ,on your capabilities as an aircraft engineer.
To mangle an old saying,"licence doth not maketh man".Whilst at BA in the 90's there were guys wth tickets & approvals up the Ying Yang who couldn't walk & chew bubble gum! I've met many who could never pass the essay questions & others who got tongue tied & could never pass the oral,they weren't lesser engineers than me.
What you say doesn't annoy me ,it's just odd that someone whose demonstrated the 'Noble Laureate like' levels of intelligence required to become a UK licenced engineer,isn't able to comprehend that nationality, or where your licence was issued has much bearing ,on your capabilities as an aircraft engineer.
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woptb
You are correct.
As a non native english speaker i agree, english speaking people might have an advantage, in understanding what is written.
But one´s mechanical understanding does not have anything to do with whether your british, finnish, polish or any other nationality.
The culture you grow up in on the other hand definitely has an influence in the way you approach things, and perceive as correct, and/or orderly.
Hence the fact that mr.winglit probably has not written "western europe" in his thread.
I would have a hard time imagining the Germans, the Austrians, the Swiss, and the Scandinavians just to mention a few, as having subpar standards to the british.
And he is quite correct in using past tense albeit in brackets as well, in regards to the comment about british aviation history. I think a lot of countries have caught up and in many cases surpassed said country in aviation manufacturing, and this even by countries with supposedly inferior qualifications and standards.
You are correct.
As a non native english speaker i agree, english speaking people might have an advantage, in understanding what is written.
But one´s mechanical understanding does not have anything to do with whether your british, finnish, polish or any other nationality.
The culture you grow up in on the other hand definitely has an influence in the way you approach things, and perceive as correct, and/or orderly.
Hence the fact that mr.winglit probably has not written "western europe" in his thread.
I would have a hard time imagining the Germans, the Austrians, the Swiss, and the Scandinavians just to mention a few, as having subpar standards to the british.
And he is quite correct in using past tense albeit in brackets as well, in regards to the comment about british aviation history. I think a lot of countries have caught up and in many cases surpassed said country in aviation manufacturing, and this even by countries with supposedly inferior qualifications and standards.
