Aircraft Engineering
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have tried to post comment with out success!!wont you do what ever it takes in your power to get what you want?..i no about the economic melt down and it's effects. i do believe in the old saying that goes "practise makes perfect"..working for free will help me build my experience up and as a result the shortage of aviation technician will decrease by 1 ..is that downgrading or damaging the industry?
SC ..what do you suggest me to change to (career).
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tache you are young and intelligent. Review the degrees on offer at Kingston and have a rethink if there is anything else that interests you. There are other areas that can still require involvement with aircraft, aerodynamics, design etc etc.
If you really can't get this myth of working on aircraft out of your head then last resort is straight to Kingston on the B licence degree course. It will at least buy you time.
Don't listen to the bull**** about not having any experience from less intelligent individuals with 20 years experience compared to your none who think they are clever joking about your lack of practical skills.
Aircraft maintenance from an engineers perspective is spiralling down. It is irresponsible of old sweats to try and convince you that it isn't.
If you really can't get this myth of working on aircraft out of your head then last resort is straight to Kingston on the B licence degree course. It will at least buy you time.
Don't listen to the bull**** about not having any experience from less intelligent individuals with 20 years experience compared to your none who think they are clever joking about your lack of practical skills.
Aircraft maintenance from an engineers perspective is spiralling down. It is irresponsible of old sweats to try and convince you that it isn't.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Problem is it's a completly diffrent dynamic when you're on the verge of starting your career than when you're already experienced and employed.
Those people aren't in our shoe and they see it from a diffrent perspective because they're not experiencing it, thier 20 or 30 years of experience is of working experience not in employments or economics.
Tache ignore all the negativities and pursue your dream, I'm sure you'll achieve what you desire just like I did.
Good luck.
Those people aren't in our shoe and they see it from a diffrent perspective because they're not experiencing it, thier 20 or 30 years of experience is of working experience not in employments or economics.
Tache ignore all the negativities and pursue your dream, I'm sure you'll achieve what you desire just like I did.
Good luck.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: home of the donkey jacket
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tache, unfortunately your "a" licence course is a useless piece of paper at the moment as you have no live aircraft experience with which to gain a licence. being a connie is also out of the question as you have no live aircraft experience to cite as a reason to be employed on a contract. it has always been the problem in this industry that employers ask for experience but you cannot get experience without being employed. this will not change. the industry is not in good shape at the moment for a number of reasons and in general employers and agencies are going for experienced staff instead of inexperienced newcomers. that is just the way it is.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aerodynamic and design require higher knowledge than GCSE in maths and physics. i am not saying i am poor in them in fact i am gifted in both. to purse a career in aerodynamic and design i have to spend 1 more year in college and i cant afford that. if i can't find any thing between now and the end of my course
my only option is to join kingston uni and see what door the foundation degree will open for me.
my only option is to join kingston uni and see what door the foundation degree will open for me.
Last edited by tache; 4th Oct 2010 at 13:53.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it is something you really want to do then there are ways. It's true, it's not like it used to be, and there are a pitiful amount of apprenticeship opportunities out there at the moment, although that looks (hopefully) to be changing very slowly. I don't agree with the negative comments about working for free to gain experience. If you can't get a course initially, it sometimes seems to be the only way, although most courses in this industry today are unpaid anyway, and some require paying for your own modules! If you can afford to go to Kingston, then do it. Getting your modules was no mean feat, but you definitely require hands-on experience to apply for any kind of aircraft license. Kingston may offer opportunities with companies to work, but it may not be for the required length of time. Another option is getting a job with an organisation that do the sort of work you're looking for, whether it be part time in something unrelated, where you will then have the contacts to say, "look, I'm interested in doing this, can I work with your guys in your hangars/workshops (or whatever)" to be able to fill out your log book and work towards what you want. This will be unpaid, and in your spare time, but at least you're not doing nothing. The only other thing I would suggest would be to approach airlines/MRO providers personally, and explain you're willing to come in in your spare time for the experience, most organisations are happy and willing to help out, though the biggest issue with that can be security clearances, etc, which make them feel that it's more trouble than it's worth.
It's not about taking other people's jobs, it's hard to get into aircraft maintenance and get full licenses/approvals without taking the full Part 147 route with a company that will then take you on, and with the recent lack of those opportunities, are people just supposed to dismiss it as a career? It's one of the few places that I've seen people who have been passionate about it from day one, and I don't blame young people who want to get into it, and are willing to spend their free time so that they have a chance.
It's not about taking other people's jobs, it's hard to get into aircraft maintenance and get full licenses/approvals without taking the full Part 147 route with a company that will then take you on, and with the recent lack of those opportunities, are people just supposed to dismiss it as a career? It's one of the few places that I've seen people who have been passionate about it from day one, and I don't blame young people who want to get into it, and are willing to spend their free time so that they have a chance.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Humans are their own worst enemy.
If a company or an industry isn't prepared to invest in the people who keep it going then sorry but you are stupid if you work for nothing.
Choose another industry.
If a company or an industry isn't prepared to invest in the people who keep it going then sorry but you are stupid if you work for nothing.
Choose another industry.
I agree with SC, I am all for encouraging people who have a genuine desire to work on aircraft but at the same time I will discourage those who will work for free and cheapen our profession, next up there will be people PAYING for the privilege of spanner turning,if that sounds far fetched I bet a few years back people said the same about paying to fly...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tache and Flame, I understand where both of you are coming from. Because about 2 years ago I was in the same situation as Tache and yes I did work for free, and if you asked me last year and about working for free, I would totally agree with you both. However things has change, and I do understand where MATMAX and SC are coming from.
As I see it 'working for free' has two definitions:
A) Doing work experience, where mainly you are only taking an 'active interest' and performing only the basic tasks, most likely with supervision and providing the extra hand if needed.
B) Performing the jobs a mechanic with do.
If B) or both, is what both Tache and Flame define it as, and than yes you are downgrading the industry, both in terms of wages and jobs.
Tache, finish you course and than start looking for a UNLICENCE MECHANIC (NOT 'A' LICENCE) job and after a while, if no luck and go join an different industry.
If you still want to go to university next year, may I suggest to do a degree in mechanical or electronic engineering.
As I see it 'working for free' has two definitions:
A) Doing work experience, where mainly you are only taking an 'active interest' and performing only the basic tasks, most likely with supervision and providing the extra hand if needed.
B) Performing the jobs a mechanic with do.
If B) or both, is what both Tache and Flame define it as, and than yes you are downgrading the industry, both in terms of wages and jobs.
Tache, finish you course and than start looking for a UNLICENCE MECHANIC (NOT 'A' LICENCE) job and after a while, if no luck and go join an different industry.
If you still want to go to university next year, may I suggest to do a degree in mechanical or electronic engineering.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Faz, I agree, and the working for free the way I see it on this thread has to be option A. Taking an actual job, unpaid, is an entirely different thing and may be what Safety Concerns is alluding to, which is why I couldn't get my head around the attitude. Maybe not, but I don't think young people should be discouraged from taking an active interest in this type of career and using their spare time to experience the role from those who are highly skilled and are willing to let someone observe and learn from them, after all that is what apprentices do. I don't mean working as a mechanic for free. Is that even legal? Employers generally will look more favourably on those who have shown a genuine desire to learn, and this could be from unpaid placements where they have had a chance to carry out tasks with supervision and to find out what they're capable of. It's much harder to do this these days with the lack of apprenticeship opportunities and with companies much less inclined to take on inexperienced people who may not fit the 'apprentice' profile. I agree the industry is changing, also the aircraft and maintenance philosophy as a whole is changing rapidly, but it isn't going to go away. I don't see how someone taking some time to learn in this way is downgrading the profession. Experience is everything, you can't learn the job by reading a book.
Although, I respect your opinion on how things are different than what they used to be, I don't think it's really fair to suggest they should be looking at a different industry immediately without giving them time to find out for themselves if the career they want is right for them.
Although, I respect your opinion on how things are different than what they used to be, I don't think it's really fair to suggest they should be looking at a different industry immediately without giving them time to find out for themselves if the career they want is right for them.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: bahrain
Age: 35
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi faz thanks for your objective reply.
And I think A is ethe most applicable defition to working for free as thats what a starter needs to obtain to be up to par to being relied upon to work as an unlicensed mechanic.
I rightly or wrongly didn't mean working as a mechanic that does shifts and stuff and gets a responsibility dumped on him for free!
What I meant about free is a basic training at the basics of work that qualify the apprentice to be a mechanic.
And this sort of experience which is the basic training does count in a CV so it would be rather helpful for him if he does this sort of work for the required amount of time to validating his A license for free.
I fail to see hows letting people do thier job training for free to match the hands-on requirments of thier basic training downgrading the industry!
And I think A is ethe most applicable defition to working for free as thats what a starter needs to obtain to be up to par to being relied upon to work as an unlicensed mechanic.
I rightly or wrongly didn't mean working as a mechanic that does shifts and stuff and gets a responsibility dumped on him for free!
What I meant about free is a basic training at the basics of work that qualify the apprentice to be a mechanic.
And this sort of experience which is the basic training does count in a CV so it would be rather helpful for him if he does this sort of work for the required amount of time to validating his A license for free.
I fail to see hows letting people do thier job training for free to match the hands-on requirments of thier basic training downgrading the industry!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: somewhere north of south
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, working for free!! I thought only work experience kids from school did that. Things must be bad over there and I feel for you guys but don't prostitute your knowlege, skills and training. With the onset of low cost carriers here in Australia pilots have started to do that and now they bicker incessantly at each other. Lets not let that happen in engineering.
