CHIRP
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CHIRP
Had the new copy of CHIRP through today.I and a few of my friends have used CHIRP before.I'm wondering what peoples views were of CHIRP,either engineers or flight crew.Especially after their independent review.I have my own view after using them and reading some of the reports.
Also would just like to high light the death of the no blame culture.Read the first engineering report of page 4.I've under gone some SMS training with my present employer and was not impressed.As far I can see we have gone back to the bad old days of the blame and shame culture followed my sack em quickly.
Veiws please just out of intrest.
Also would just like to high light the death of the no blame culture.Read the first engineering report of page 4.I've under gone some SMS training with my present employer and was not impressed.As far I can see we have gone back to the bad old days of the blame and shame culture followed my sack em quickly.
Veiws please just out of intrest.
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Also would just like to high light the death of the no blame culture.
CHIRP Comment: The reporter's concern was raised with the engineering management of the organisation concerned. The management confirmed that their procedures included maintaining the confidentiality of individuals in cases such as that reported, and acknowledged that the matter had not been handled well or in accordance with company policy. The company advised that corrective action had been taken to avoid any recurrence.
http://www.chirp.co.uk/Downloads/ATFB/ATFB93.pdf
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Quote "With regard to the reporters reference to a "No Blame Culture",this term was a term widely used to describe a system for investigating and managing human errors when Human Factors was first introduced as required subject in training of engineers.More recently the phrase has been replaced by the term Just Culture".
I didnt explain myself very well I wasnt commenting on the out come of the report I was commenting on CHIRPS response and its explanation of the just culture.
I didnt explain myself very well I wasnt commenting on the out come of the report I was commenting on CHIRPS response and its explanation of the just culture.
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Sorry to say but, based on a couple of incidents at separate companies, the "just culture" is dead and buried except on paper. It is a compliance issue and is ignored when it suits the company. Both times the companies ignored the just concept because it didn't suit what higher management wanted to happen. These are both UK based operators.
Last edited by Exbat; 15th Feb 2010 at 20:17. Reason: Qualification
I've been working towards a Just Culture for the last five years and, at my place, I'd like to think its working - some obviously may not think that - but only one has been let go for persistant and repetitive errors in that time.
No other punitive action has been taken against several other persons involved in errors, even if quite costly.
The ideal is to build trust both ways and get the jobs done properly, with the least hassle. You cant do that with threats, but you can't let engineers run blame free either - you have to be responsible for what you do.
Where an error is shown to be accidental or "just one of those things", can be acceptable at some levels. There may be some culpability in errors too and that has to be apportioned accordingly. I think we're winning.
We are all paid for responsibility - as well as skills.
No other punitive action has been taken against several other persons involved in errors, even if quite costly.
The ideal is to build trust both ways and get the jobs done properly, with the least hassle. You cant do that with threats, but you can't let engineers run blame free either - you have to be responsible for what you do.
Where an error is shown to be accidental or "just one of those things", can be acceptable at some levels. There may be some culpability in errors too and that has to be apportioned accordingly. I think we're winning.
We are all paid for responsibility - as well as skills.
Do find CHIRPS valuable and think it is essential. On its own it cant change things but gives us all an awareness of whats going on. Think from a HF point of view it shows that all groups reported on [crew/atc/engrs] have the same basic problems that dont seem to be getting better . Keep the reports going as i dont see anything helpful coming from any other systems in the current climate which to my mind has seen us taken over by the global corporate culture of everything being run by the financiers , at the expense of standards and safety.
