Mature Students Entering Aircraft Engineering
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Mature Students Entering Aircraft Engineering
Hi,
Just wanted to get an idea from any aircraft engineers out there who can either give me some advice about entering aircraft engineering late in life or people who are just about to embark on such a late career change.
My background is that I gained a BTEC Diploma in Aerospace Engineering about 20 yrs ago then I worked in different areas of airports and airlines except engineering but now hoping to study/work to continue where I left off 20 yrs ago. The first obvious problem is the gaining of the practical experience if I take the licence engineer path. I am looking at the Foundation degree in Aeronautical Engineering at Farnborough College in Sep to give me perhaps more possible avenues....Is this a wise path?
Just wanted to get an idea from any aircraft engineers out there who can either give me some advice about entering aircraft engineering late in life or people who are just about to embark on such a late career change.
My background is that I gained a BTEC Diploma in Aerospace Engineering about 20 yrs ago then I worked in different areas of airports and airlines except engineering but now hoping to study/work to continue where I left off 20 yrs ago. The first obvious problem is the gaining of the practical experience if I take the licence engineer path. I am looking at the Foundation degree in Aeronautical Engineering at Farnborough College in Sep to give me perhaps more possible avenues....Is this a wise path?
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It depends on what level you expect to enter the Aviation engineering world, hands on or 'tech services' (or similiar)
Monarch Engineering used to run an 'Adult trainee' scheme which was well received. You were 'hands-on' after a week or so in the classroom and were given a Mentor to assist with 100% supervision. This also meant you would get involved in the more complex tasks (skin repairs, engine changes, structure replacement etc) Naturally, you were not signing anything off (as a mech) but it is a very good way to learn.....
You can study module by module as you go and there would be a wealth of knowledge on the shop floor...
It might be worth giving them a call, not sure if they are still running such a scheme??
Monarch Engineering used to run an 'Adult trainee' scheme which was well received. You were 'hands-on' after a week or so in the classroom and were given a Mentor to assist with 100% supervision. This also meant you would get involved in the more complex tasks (skin repairs, engine changes, structure replacement etc) Naturally, you were not signing anything off (as a mech) but it is a very good way to learn.....
You can study module by module as you go and there would be a wealth of knowledge on the shop floor...
It might be worth giving them a call, not sure if they are still running such a scheme??
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TBH mate i wouldnt bother, the industry is completly on its arse ,theres no end of type rated licensed guys looking for work and even more wannabies the colleges have churned out with a basic license and not a lot else trying to get a start , add to that the fact base maintenance is on its last legs in the UK, so unless you want to work in the middle east for the rest of your days id look at something else
ps i wouldnt bother with monarch there about to announce big job cuts in base maintenance
ps i wouldnt bother with monarch there about to announce big job cuts in base maintenance
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Rolls Trent
I wouldn't be too put off by Smudge's opinion, which is almost total b****x.
There are certainly well-qualified engineers who find it difficult to get a job, but that's usually because it's a very small world in aviation and their reputation precedes them.
The attitude that it's all gloom and doom, nothing's right, everything's on its last legs in UK, can't be arsed, is popular among a cynical minority. Whingeing is a UK national sport and aircraft maintenance engineers do it at Olympic level, but don't take it too seriously.
You need to get a B1 and/or B2 Licence. But I wouldn't bother with a Foundation Degree, unless it's paid for by someone else AND has an outcome of a Basic Training Certificate for EASA Cat B1 and/or B2. That means the course must include Theory (Modules), Practical Training and OJT.
Few if any Foundation Degree courses, or indeed any College courses, give you all of that, mainly because they don't know how to set up proper, structured OJT. So unless you want to go on to an Honours Degree the Foundation Degree is pointless.
Once you have the Basic Certificate, you need work experience; several years worth, depending on how you did the Modules and Practical.
You should contact all the Part 147-approved basic Training schools, and see what they can offer, and what funding they might be able to get for you. (As an adult, don't be to hopeful of the funding).
Good luck!
I wouldn't be too put off by Smudge's opinion, which is almost total b****x.
There are certainly well-qualified engineers who find it difficult to get a job, but that's usually because it's a very small world in aviation and their reputation precedes them.
The attitude that it's all gloom and doom, nothing's right, everything's on its last legs in UK, can't be arsed, is popular among a cynical minority. Whingeing is a UK national sport and aircraft maintenance engineers do it at Olympic level, but don't take it too seriously.
You need to get a B1 and/or B2 Licence. But I wouldn't bother with a Foundation Degree, unless it's paid for by someone else AND has an outcome of a Basic Training Certificate for EASA Cat B1 and/or B2. That means the course must include Theory (Modules), Practical Training and OJT.
Few if any Foundation Degree courses, or indeed any College courses, give you all of that, mainly because they don't know how to set up proper, structured OJT. So unless you want to go on to an Honours Degree the Foundation Degree is pointless.
Once you have the Basic Certificate, you need work experience; several years worth, depending on how you did the Modules and Practical.
You should contact all the Part 147-approved basic Training schools, and see what they can offer, and what funding they might be able to get for you. (As an adult, don't be to hopeful of the funding).
Good luck!
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Im sure the many very well qualified very competent engineers i know who are either not working or working for peanuts as mechs as theres no work available will be over the moon to find out the reason their in the predicament they are is not because there is no work, but the fact they all have awfull reputations.
What planet are you on mate?????
ps rolls trent id be very wary listning to people or oganizations with a vested intrest in the training of woud be engineers telling you how rosy the future is, its not, just watch whats going on at monarch for a perfect example of uk companies being unable to compete with eastern european middle/far east labour rates
What planet are you on mate?????
ps rolls trent id be very wary listning to people or oganizations with a vested intrest in the training of woud be engineers telling you how rosy the future is, its not, just watch whats going on at monarch for a perfect example of uk companies being unable to compete with eastern european middle/far east labour rates
Last edited by smudgethecat; 12th Feb 2010 at 15:34.
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Well said smudge. Just ask the SRT lads at Dublin, East Mids and Stansted. They will back you up. Industry is carp at the moment. Just wish I had the b@l@x to get out and do something else.
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If you want to actually be working on aircraft forget degrees etc as they really wont help you in the slightest. Get yourself on a part 147 course (which can cost a lot), apprenticeship (some places do take mature students), or self study for the modules yourself.
The industry really is suffering at the moment though in terms of jobs, it really does help if you know people already in the industry.
Anyway, good luck!
The industry really is suffering at the moment though in terms of jobs, it really does help if you know people already in the industry.
Anyway, good luck!
Last edited by jpoth06; 18th Mar 2010 at 21:18.
If you haven't already go to page 2 of this forum and read through "The Aircraft Engineer"
near top of the page. Lots of informed and not so informed comment. Worth a read.
Yes the jobs market is flat but this industry has always been cyclic and that will change. A huge number of licensed guys are heading for retirement and at some point they have to be replaced. So as always timing is everything. Starting from scratch it could take you at least 5 years to licence and another 5 to be fully competent. That takes you to my retirement point, you can have my job!!!
near top of the page. Lots of informed and not so informed comment. Worth a read.
Yes the jobs market is flat but this industry has always been cyclic and that will change. A huge number of licensed guys are heading for retirement and at some point they have to be replaced. So as always timing is everything. Starting from scratch it could take you at least 5 years to licence and another 5 to be fully competent. That takes you to my retirement point, you can have my job!!!
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Hi Rolls, a good friend of my brothers who was car mechanic was very keen to get into aeroplane work, he did a full time course at a college in bristol over three years and was told by the college people would be queing up to employ him once he got his qualification ,he has now had this qualfication for nearly two years and cannot get a job because he says airlines do not view people from colleges as" real engineers" ,he is very very dissapointed and has even been working for free with a company at manchester airport in the hope he can get a foot in the door
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Smudge pretty well summates the industry at present, and for the foreseeable future.......
There are an awful lot of qualified and experienced engineers available at present ( ignore the utter garbage about reputations here ) who simply cannot find work in the UK...as there isn't any as such. The contracting world is a possibility, but again, it's a bit saturated at present as I understand matters from those I know who are still part of it ....and getting worse. Lets put it this way. I got lucky and changed direction as it were a while ago....still very much involved in aviation however and live aircraft.....a ground run is a ground run after all for example, but was recently joined by a mate from the past...who was involuntary ex BMI at EMA.....as he says, he too got lucky with the job we do...most of his former colleagues weren't.
With the best will in the world therefore, I would seriously suggest you scrap the idea as you will be facing a headwind every step of the way...do you really want that simply to work on aircraft ?
There are an awful lot of qualified and experienced engineers available at present ( ignore the utter garbage about reputations here ) who simply cannot find work in the UK...as there isn't any as such. The contracting world is a possibility, but again, it's a bit saturated at present as I understand matters from those I know who are still part of it ....and getting worse. Lets put it this way. I got lucky and changed direction as it were a while ago....still very much involved in aviation however and live aircraft.....a ground run is a ground run after all for example, but was recently joined by a mate from the past...who was involuntary ex BMI at EMA.....as he says, he too got lucky with the job we do...most of his former colleagues weren't.
With the best will in the world therefore, I would seriously suggest you scrap the idea as you will be facing a headwind every step of the way...do you really want that simply to work on aircraft ?
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Thanks to all of you for replying. A lot to think about and a mix bag of thoughts. I thought the path to being an aircraft engineer would be difficult no matter what age I was and you guys confirm it.
I guess my passion for aviation is still there even at 38 but I realise I may have to realistic in my expectation. I will reply individually to your messages. Appreciate your time in giving your thoughts.
Rolls Trent
I guess my passion for aviation is still there even at 38 but I realise I may have to realistic in my expectation. I will reply individually to your messages. Appreciate your time in giving your thoughts.
Rolls Trent
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Smudge is correct in what he is saying, this industry is on it's arse, if you have any sence, you will steer well clear. I have been in this game 30 years, and never seen it so bad, and there is worse to come yet.
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Apprentice!
Dear Rolls Trent,
If you are lucky enough to get yourself an apprenticeship in this day and age, you might want to listen to this.
Aaaaaah...........Those were the days!
YouTube - Kevin Bloody Wilson - The Apprentice
GB
If you are lucky enough to get yourself an apprenticeship in this day and age, you might want to listen to this.
Aaaaaah...........Those were the days!
YouTube - Kevin Bloody Wilson - The Apprentice
GB
As BISH bASH says the job is currently not in rude health.
I have been in the job for almost 40 years and I have seen it this bad twice, on both ocasions for about 2 years (no guarantee as to what happens this time).
In the early 80's I had enough rejection letters all with beutiful headed paper to wallpaper my living room. The company I was working for was paying GBP 5000 a year. They dropped me in the crap with the CAA and I resigned with nothing to go too. The following day I got a job offer, a 3000 a year pay rise and never looked back.
The next nasty was the early nineties (hello do we have a 10 year cycle). I remember receiving a phone call from an ex miner with his redundancy pay in hand enquiring about becomming a helicopter pilot. I told him how dire the industry was and his reponse was "I'd rather be an out of work helicopter pilot than an out of work plumber". He now works for the same company as me as a captain earning nearly twice what I get!!!!!!!
Faint heart never f****d a pig!!!!!!
It's going to be a time before you get your qualifications, time and demographics are on your side.
EASA the CAA and Big Airways are your enemy.
I have been in the job for almost 40 years and I have seen it this bad twice, on both ocasions for about 2 years (no guarantee as to what happens this time).
In the early 80's I had enough rejection letters all with beutiful headed paper to wallpaper my living room. The company I was working for was paying GBP 5000 a year. They dropped me in the crap with the CAA and I resigned with nothing to go too. The following day I got a job offer, a 3000 a year pay rise and never looked back.
The next nasty was the early nineties (hello do we have a 10 year cycle). I remember receiving a phone call from an ex miner with his redundancy pay in hand enquiring about becomming a helicopter pilot. I told him how dire the industry was and his reponse was "I'd rather be an out of work helicopter pilot than an out of work plumber". He now works for the same company as me as a captain earning nearly twice what I get!!!!!!!
Faint heart never f****d a pig!!!!!!
It's going to be a time before you get your qualifications, time and demographics are on your side.
EASA the CAA and Big Airways are your enemy.
